Serious Problem! Car won't crank!
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Serious Problem! Car won't crank! Okay, I have a serious issue that I really need help with!
I have a 2002 Camaro SS
Factory Hurst Shifter
SLP Edition
Aftermarket Kill Switch
It also used to be a Police Interceptor
Okay, so on certain times the car will turn on and crank and be completely fine. On other times, the car won't even turn on UNLESS YOU HOLD DOWN THE KEY IN THE START POSITION. I have to keep it held down there for I'd say like 45 seconds. I recently read in the manual that you're supposed to only hold down the starter for like 15 seconds, then let off and try again.
So anyways, I noticed this stuff would happen every time the Alarm was triggered, be it the 2-Honk warning or the full 3-min alarm. Every time this was triggered, the car would not start normally unless I did the previously mentioned procedure.
Also, I accidentally stalled the engine in front of a GOD-DAMNED 4 way stop sign, and this car wouldn't start for like a whole minute (which SEEMED like FOREVER). It was infuriating and embarassing!
So previous owner told me ways of getting it to start up faster. He told me to hold the starter down for like 15 seconds, then moving the shifter from 2nd to Neutral and moving the shifter side to side in Neutral. Then let go of the starter, pump the clutch 6 (six) times and attempt to start again. Usually it starts within the 15 seconds. The funny thing is, this whole procedure takes about 45 seconds anyways, so I found that holding the damned starter down achieves the same results.
Anyways, CAR GODS OF LS1TECH, PLEASE HELP ME!
Could this be the damned Aftermarket Kill Switch messing with it? Could the clutch (it's always disengaged when I start it btw) have anything to do with it? Could there be some kind of problem with my battery? The starter solenoid or maybe the Ignition Switch is going out? Any suggestions guyz?
Thanks for reading!
I have a 2002 Camaro SS
Factory Hurst Shifter
SLP Edition
Aftermarket Kill Switch
It also used to be a Police Interceptor
Okay, so on certain times the car will turn on and crank and be completely fine. On other times, the car won't even turn on UNLESS YOU HOLD DOWN THE KEY IN THE START POSITION. I have to keep it held down there for I'd say like 45 seconds. I recently read in the manual that you're supposed to only hold down the starter for like 15 seconds, then let off and try again.
So anyways, I noticed this stuff would happen every time the Alarm was triggered, be it the 2-Honk warning or the full 3-min alarm. Every time this was triggered, the car would not start normally unless I did the previously mentioned procedure.
Also, I accidentally stalled the engine in front of a GOD-DAMNED 4 way stop sign, and this car wouldn't start for like a whole minute (which SEEMED like FOREVER). It was infuriating and embarassing!
So previous owner told me ways of getting it to start up faster. He told me to hold the starter down for like 15 seconds, then moving the shifter from 2nd to Neutral and moving the shifter side to side in Neutral. Then let go of the starter, pump the clutch 6 (six) times and attempt to start again. Usually it starts within the 15 seconds. The funny thing is, this whole procedure takes about 45 seconds anyways, so I found that holding the damned starter down achieves the same results.
Anyways, CAR GODS OF LS1TECH, PLEASE HELP ME!
Could this be the damned Aftermarket Kill Switch messing with it? Could the clutch (it's always disengaged when I start it btw) have anything to do with it? Could there be some kind of problem with my battery? The starter solenoid or maybe the Ignition Switch is going out? Any suggestions guyz?
Thanks for reading!
Stop holding the starter "on" for more than 10 seconds IMO, you are heating it up and the life span will be greatly shortened. I would never turn my engine over for more than 5 seconds personally...my starter is original, 11 years old.
Sounds like the security system is screwing you up. There's alot of info on here about it, mine has been deleted from my car when I put my own aftermarket system in the week I bought the car in 1998, so I don't know much about fixing the issue.
Its not the battery if its turning over normally. Maybe you have an issue with dirty fuel injectors, low fuel pressure. Also, leaky fuel injectors makes the engine hard to start, but if just a couple cylinders were firing normally you would feel it wanting to start immediately. A bad Crank Shaft Position sensor also causes the exact symptoms you're getting. Usually you get an SES light, but not all cars will. Mine didn't get the light when my CSP sensor failed. You'r engine will run sometimes and sometimes just shut off..also a bad CSP sensor causes hard starts alot of times.
I suggest getting a scan, but not with the orange scanners at the auto parts stores. Use an OBDII scanner like the dealeships use. They show anything thats goinmg on.
Sounds like the security system is screwing you up. There's alot of info on here about it, mine has been deleted from my car when I put my own aftermarket system in the week I bought the car in 1998, so I don't know much about fixing the issue.
Its not the battery if its turning over normally. Maybe you have an issue with dirty fuel injectors, low fuel pressure. Also, leaky fuel injectors makes the engine hard to start, but if just a couple cylinders were firing normally you would feel it wanting to start immediately. A bad Crank Shaft Position sensor also causes the exact symptoms you're getting. Usually you get an SES light, but not all cars will. Mine didn't get the light when my CSP sensor failed. You'r engine will run sometimes and sometimes just shut off..also a bad CSP sensor causes hard starts alot of times.
I suggest getting a scan, but not with the orange scanners at the auto parts stores. Use an OBDII scanner like the dealeships use. They show anything thats goinmg on.
Make sure your kill switch is still wired up correctly and no loose wires. Also sounds like your ignition switch is on its way out. I had this same type problem with my beater.
When you are holding the key in the start position, is the engine actually turning over or is nothing happening at all? If nothing happens, check and see if your security light is illuminated. It could be a VATS issue if that is the case. If the engine is turning over and not starting, it's probably an ignition relay. If it is neither of those, that kill switch could be having issues.
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I forgot to mention that when I do turn my key into the "On" (Position before Start) position, my lights and everything all come up. As soon as I crank it, everything goes off, all my gauges all move to the left as if the car was off. So yeah, I'm stuck.... I've tried nothin' and I'm all out of ideas!!! (Simpsons Did It)
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From: New Albany, Ohio
When you turn the key to the start position the pcm checks the signal to the crank position. Then the pcm grounds to the starter relay and so on to the starter. I would check codes with a Tech2 scan tool. If no codes i would check crank sensor first. I have seen on other engines where the crank sensor will get hot and the engine will stall and wont restart for up to 15 min.
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I just ran the tester and got back 4 trouble codes. Oxygen Sensor Banks 1 AND 2. Two codes say both banks are too low, the other two say they're too high? I didn't get it...
So, yeah some crazy stuff happened earlier today! It involves my Tensioner Bearing completely exploding and me removing the battery.
I went to Autozone and got the battery tested and they said it was a good battery. I pop it back in and all of a sudden, my SES light is completely gone! I'm like, uh really? SO yeah, I don't know what's going on. I still have this gay starter problem... Ugh, someone please help!
So, yeah some crazy stuff happened earlier today! It involves my Tensioner Bearing completely exploding and me removing the battery.
I went to Autozone and got the battery tested and they said it was a good battery. I pop it back in and all of a sudden, my SES light is completely gone! I'm like, uh really? SO yeah, I don't know what's going on. I still have this gay starter problem... Ugh, someone please help!
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I forgot to mention that when I do turn my key into the "On" (Position before Start) position, my lights and everything all come up. As soon as I crank it, everything goes off, all my gauges all move to the left as if the car was off. So yeah, I'm stuck.... I've tried nothin' and I'm all out of ideas!!! (Simpsons Did It)
This sounds like it could be a VATS issue especially when you mention the security system.
Had similar problem with mine. Waiting 3 minutes and it MAYBE starting left me stranded like 10 times and I said F#%# IT!!! You need to search for threads concerning VATS issues. I ended up tuning out the feature with tuning software bypassing the BCM.
Yours sounds like the ingnition switch that reads the key's resistance is possibly going bad.
Does the security light flash? If not check the kill switch setup first.
Mine is also a patrol car.
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The red light on top of the dash does flash. I apparently have to wait for the "Security" light to turn off first, then crank... But yeah, if it's a VATS, then I definitely need to get this looked at. So far all of my buddies tell me that all of the parts that start the car are okay. So I'm hoping that it's just the VATS.
PM Sent!
PM Sent!
All that "pumping the clutch" leads me to believe pedal position switch.Also that switch is a great one to cut into for a kill switch.It's hard to see but look under the pedal and see if you can see any wiring changes-or you can jump it out FOR TESTING PURPOSES ONLY!!!!!!!!!!!!
If I were trying to troubleshoot this though,I would start under the car at the starter and check for 12volts on the small wire( a purple one on my '99) while someone trys to start it.In order for the starter to turn. the start relay has to have volts from the clutch switch and ground from the BCM.The vats stuff stops the BCM from sending out the ground.So you have to start checking volts somewhere and working back till you lose it.I'd start at the very end.Good luck,let us know.
If I were trying to troubleshoot this though,I would start under the car at the starter and check for 12volts on the small wire( a purple one on my '99) while someone trys to start it.In order for the starter to turn. the start relay has to have volts from the clutch switch and ground from the BCM.The vats stuff stops the BCM from sending out the ground.So you have to start checking volts somewhere and working back till you lose it.I'd start at the very end.Good luck,let us know.
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Thanks for the Tip man! Every bit helps!
I noticed that ever since I turned on the Kill Switch and just starting the car with it on, it's been gettin' better and better. Maybe because I've been pumping the clutch a few times... but I dunno. Thanks again guys. keep it coming!
I noticed that ever since I turned on the Kill Switch and just starting the car with it on, it's been gettin' better and better. Maybe because I've been pumping the clutch a few times... but I dunno. Thanks again guys. keep it coming!
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So I've gotten the Kill Switch unit removed. It's started with no problems for like two days. Well, after that it's doing it again!!! I'm back to square one, only now, minus the Kill Switch Unit.
So what I noticed was that every time it's day, the car will start almost immediately or a few pumps of the clutch and jiggling of the shifter. What I also noticed that every FREAKING TIME the Automatic Head Lights kick in, the car has trouble starting. It's been doing this when it's dark outside, or I'm parked inside the Parking Garage at my job. So, I found out how to disable that Automatic Head Lights at crank (by leaving the parking brake on and the upright position), and it's been starting pretty easily.
Anyone have any ideas as to what it might be? Is it an alternator problem? Is it the starter? Is it the battery? Someone once told me that when cars are off, the battery voltage should normally be at around 11 and 14 when it's running. Well mine is right at the tip of that "red area" on the volt meter. I'm guessing it's right below 11?
Anyone have any ideas?
So what I noticed was that every time it's day, the car will start almost immediately or a few pumps of the clutch and jiggling of the shifter. What I also noticed that every FREAKING TIME the Automatic Head Lights kick in, the car has trouble starting. It's been doing this when it's dark outside, or I'm parked inside the Parking Garage at my job. So, I found out how to disable that Automatic Head Lights at crank (by leaving the parking brake on and the upright position), and it's been starting pretty easily.
Anyone have any ideas as to what it might be? Is it an alternator problem? Is it the starter? Is it the battery? Someone once told me that when cars are off, the battery voltage should normally be at around 11 and 14 when it's running. Well mine is right at the tip of that "red area" on the volt meter. I'm guessing it's right below 11?
Anyone have any ideas?
i was having a very similar problem and it turned up being a bad ground from the battery. it just goes to show u not every problem is a huge ordeal. i would check all ur connections and grounds before i send alot if money trying to fix a problem that wasnt the problem to begin with.
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Well I kinda figured out the problem. I think it's VATS!!!
I got everything tested pretty much. Battery is good, Relays are both good, Starter is good, and even Ignition switch was replaced. Most of last week, I've had to push start the car to get it going... Now, it's totally different. I have to get out, pop the hood, take out the Starter Relay. I have to stick one end of a wire to the bottom left slot for the relay, then touch the other end to the positive terminal. What really sucks is I have to keep doing it several times causes many sparks until it just starts the car. I can hear some kind of noise right in front of the car around the brake booster. This noise can only be heard outside of the car and not inside. The noise heard sounds like a lamp turning off. I have to keep tapping that wire and I feel like I'm shorting something out. Scares me a lot, really...
Anyways, I'm thinking about just saying "**** It" and replace VATS with like a Viper Alarm or something. It's giving me so much of a headache and it's my daily driver. Anyone got any ideas?
I got everything tested pretty much. Battery is good, Relays are both good, Starter is good, and even Ignition switch was replaced. Most of last week, I've had to push start the car to get it going... Now, it's totally different. I have to get out, pop the hood, take out the Starter Relay. I have to stick one end of a wire to the bottom left slot for the relay, then touch the other end to the positive terminal. What really sucks is I have to keep doing it several times causes many sparks until it just starts the car. I can hear some kind of noise right in front of the car around the brake booster. This noise can only be heard outside of the car and not inside. The noise heard sounds like a lamp turning off. I have to keep tapping that wire and I feel like I'm shorting something out. Scares me a lot, really...
Anyways, I'm thinking about just saying "**** It" and replace VATS with like a Viper Alarm or something. It's giving me so much of a headache and it's my daily driver. Anyone got any ideas?
By applying volts to one of the socket terminals of the relay socket what you seem to be doing ( if the motor cranks then ) is sending voltage to the purple wire on the starter solenoid.Did you try and check voltage there as I mentioned in post #10 ?
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Yes, the voltage is good on that wire. We checked the wire, then checked the starter (had to take it out and have autozone test it). Everything checks out... So, I'm pretty sure it's the silly VATS.
Should I just get it ripped out and replaced with a Viper Alarm or should I take it to the dealer and have them reset it or something?
Should I just get it ripped out and replaced with a Viper Alarm or should I take it to the dealer and have them reset it or something?
It's pretty simple to bypass the VATS to see if that cures the problem- I would do that first-all you need is a resistor from Radio Shack that matches your key pellet resistance.
If you need someone to walk you through this, PM me and I'll send you my number.I wouldn't spend the money on an expensive alarm untill you know there is not something else you are missing IMHO
If you need someone to walk you through this, PM me and I'll send you my number.I wouldn't spend the money on an expensive alarm untill you know there is not something else you are missing IMHO
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Dude, Lovin... You're freakin' awesome! By the way, here's my Car Domain for my car. Haven't had the chance of taking pics yet, but will take more soon! http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3247252
So anyways, I think I'll go ahead and do that. I also talked to some guy about the whole resistor thing and he said that I can get it done the way you said it. It's something I have to switch out somewhere in the lock cylinder? Then he said any key will work, so long as it fits the tumblers.
But yeah, I would like for you to talk me through it! ;D
So anyways, I think I'll go ahead and do that. I also talked to some guy about the whole resistor thing and he said that I can get it done the way you said it. It's something I have to switch out somewhere in the lock cylinder? Then he said any key will work, so long as it fits the tumblers.
But yeah, I would like for you to talk me through it! ;D
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Eh, I forgot to mention that, that on Car Domain isn't exactly mine. It's got Cali Plates on it, but it's a very similar looking car. I mean, the only difference from that car and mine is that my CME tips aren't as shiny and there's a dent on the driver side.
:p Other than that, the car looks really clean all around.
:p Other than that, the car looks really clean all around.
