Starter motor mount on block....broke.....
03-27-2010, 10:50 AM
#7
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I had a auto tech teacher that had this same thing happen to his GMC truck. He had to get a new engine just for some stupid mount breaking. I'm not sure if he looked into welding it back on or not though. You would think it would be simple enough to do.
This is a good excuse for you to upgrade though. That's what I love about breaking things.
This is a good excuse for you to upgrade though. That's what I love about breaking things.
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03-27-2010, 03:31 PM
#8
If you want to save the next engine use the truck starter with the two equal length bolts. It won't break off like the stock ls1 starter does. The problem is the ls1 starter is weak because of the way it mounts with one short bolt. If the engine gets tough to turn over for ANY reason the mount on the short side breaks off taking the block with it because the starter twists itself away from the engine. As it twists away from the fltwheel the longer bolt can't break off so it breaks the engine mount off with it as it moves with the starter.
The stronger truck starter can't break off like this bevause the inboard mount is stronger using the longer bolt.
Actually GM should have updated this but never did!
You can find the updated starter : http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/New-S...Q5fAccessories
read carefully it doesn't include the longer bolt, this will stop the broken block problem.
This one includes the longer bolt http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Start...item53e0021caf
All ls1 engines should use this stronger design but if you plan on doing ANY mods to the engine this should be your 1st one!
The stronger truck starter can't break off like this bevause the inboard mount is stronger using the longer bolt.
Actually GM should have updated this but never did!
You can find the updated starter : http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/New-S...Q5fAccessories
read carefully it doesn't include the longer bolt, this will stop the broken block problem.
This one includes the longer bolt http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Start...item53e0021caf
All ls1 engines should use this stronger design but if you plan on doing ANY mods to the engine this should be your 1st one!
Last edited by HotSilverBird; 03-27-2010 at 03:48 PM.
03-27-2010, 04:03 PM
#10
If you want to save the next engine use the truck starter with the two equal length bolts. It won't break off like the stock ls1 starter does. The problem is the ls1 starter is weak because of the way it mounts with one short bolt. If the engine gets tough to turn over for ANY reason the mount on the short side breaks off taking the block with it because the starter twists itself away from the engine. As it twists away from the fltwheel the longer bolt can't break off so it breaks the engine mount off with it as it moves with the starter.
The stronger truck starter can't break off like this bevause the inboard mount is stronger using the longer bolt.
Actually GM should have updated this but never did!
You can find the updated starter : http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/New-S...Q5fAccessories
read carefully it doesn't include the longer bolt, this will stop the broken block problem.
This one includes the longer bolt http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Start...item53e0021caf
The stronger truck starter can't break off like this bevause the inboard mount is stronger using the longer bolt.
Actually GM should have updated this but never did!
You can find the updated starter : http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/New-S...Q5fAccessories
read carefully it doesn't include the longer bolt, this will stop the broken block problem.
This one includes the longer bolt http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Start...item53e0021caf
03-27-2010, 04:18 PM
#11
right, because the short side broke off 1st or the inside bolt was loose etc.........the starter then twists off the block ...as it does the longer bolt can't break off so it breaks the block.... read above again LOL
you can lead a horse to water but getting him to drink is another story...good luck.....
don't thank me either...LOL
you can lead a horse to water but getting him to drink is another story...good luck.....
don't thank me either...LOL
Last edited by HotSilverBird; 03-27-2010 at 04:26 PM.
03-27-2010, 04:25 PM
#12
right, because the short side broke off 1st.........the starter then twists off the block ...as it does the longer bolt can't break off so it breaks the block.... read above again LOL
you can lead a horse to water but getting him to drink is another story...good luck.....
you can lead a horse to water but getting him to drink is another story...good luck.....
The short side never broke. Just the long side mount broke. How would two equal length bolts change anything?
And when you say I ight get away with using the truck starter on this broken block......are you saying to just use one bolt, the shorter one?
.
03-27-2010, 04:34 PM
#13
No listen carefully...one more time.....the starter load is on the inside bolt because the starter turns clockwise. If the inside bolt comes loose OR the starter housing cracks towards the inside the starter gets forced down on the inside, this causes the longer bolt to move outwards breaking the block off. Using the updated starter avouds this, thats why the trucks use it....niot sure why gm screwed us car guys....Good luck.
Ps i would use a torque wrench on my starter bolts, its important on these aluminum block engines that inside bolt stays tight. BUt if the short side mount breaks or cracks under pressure it will still fail.
USE THE TRUCK STARTER, it won't fail like this.
Ps i would use a torque wrench on my starter bolts, its important on these aluminum block engines that inside bolt stays tight. BUt if the short side mount breaks or cracks under pressure it will still fail.
USE THE TRUCK STARTER, it won't fail like this.
03-27-2010, 04:48 PM
#14
To get away with using this now do this..........
Buy a truck starter using the longer bolt inside AND use a longer bolt on the outside to keep it aligned. I think it will work because thw load is on the inside bolt. The stock ls1 starter is too weak to handle that load with one short bolt because its weak in that area.
Its worth a try.
Sorry maybe i'm not exlaining all this properly but i think you get the idea.
Buy a truck starter using the longer bolt inside AND use a longer bolt on the outside to keep it aligned. I think it will work because thw load is on the inside bolt. The stock ls1 starter is too weak to handle that load with one short bolt because its weak in that area.
Its worth a try.
Sorry maybe i'm not exlaining all this properly but i think you get the idea.
03-27-2010, 04:54 PM
#15
If you were to bolt the starter back on with one short bolt on the inside. It would break right offbecause the stock ls1 housing is too weak.. BUT if you use the truck starter it won't break off because the housing is much stronger. but you need the outside bolt in place to keep it striaght aligned with the flywheel SO use a longer bolt with a nut on top.
or use your imagimation...the important bolt is the inside one...not the outside.
or use your imagimation...the important bolt is the inside one...not the outside.
03-27-2010, 10:49 PM
#18
I understand what you are saying about the shorter bolt and longer bolt, etc. But what if the longer bolt that is on the inside is loose. Wouldn't it do the same thing and break the outside? Maybe I don't understand as much as I think.
Or you said use the longer bolt and put a nut on top of it. Is that just for an extra precaution, or for some reason, use the longer bolt w/ the stock LS1 starter, and put the nut on top for extra security? I wish I had my car home to look at it. Would be a lot easier to visualize. I had my starter off when I swapped trannys, and I was paranoid about this happening, though I never torqued the bolts, just made good and sure they were tight. Something I want to look at more closely when I bring the car out of storage.
Or you said use the longer bolt and put a nut on top of it. Is that just for an extra precaution, or for some reason, use the longer bolt w/ the stock LS1 starter, and put the nut on top for extra security? I wish I had my car home to look at it. Would be a lot easier to visualize. I had my starter off when I swapped trannys, and I was paranoid about this happening, though I never torqued the bolts, just made good and sure they were tight. Something I want to look at more closely when I bring the car out of storage.
03-28-2010, 01:25 AM
#19
Wow this is getting hard to explain but if you never want to worry about this replace the starter with the long bolt type and torque the bolts properly AND THIS WILL NEVER HAPPEN.
The stock starter has one short and one long bolt, this design is VERY WEAK. If the bolts come loose or the starter housing breaks at the short bolt the starter will move away from the block. This forces the long bolt sideways breaking the block.
The truck starter uses a much stronger housing with two LONG bolts.......it won't break off. Even if the bolts come loose the housing won't twist or break like the weaker car starter could.
I just can't keep going over this with you guys....just do as a say and you can forget about it.
The stock starter has one short and one long bolt, this design is VERY WEAK. If the bolts come loose or the starter housing breaks at the short bolt the starter will move away from the block. This forces the long bolt sideways breaking the block.
The truck starter uses a much stronger housing with two LONG bolts.......it won't break off. Even if the bolts come loose the housing won't twist or break like the weaker car starter could.
I just can't keep going over this with you guys....just do as a say and you can forget about it.
