Starter motor mount on block....broke.....
03-29-2010 | 07:36 PM
#41
Banned
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 334
Likes: 1
You/re welcome, I personally would use a longer blt with a washer etc. With the stronger starter it won't be a problem.
If you have it welded weld the piece back on without the bolt. Then run a bottoming tap into the hole and you will be good to go.
If you look carefully these bolts are special in the way they mount to the block. The shank of the bolt is up inside the block a bit for added strength and to keep the starter from moving around under torque.
If you have it welded weld the piece back on without the bolt. Then run a bottoming tap into the hole and you will be good to go.
If you look carefully these bolts are special in the way they mount to the block. The shank of the bolt is up inside the block a bit for added strength and to keep the starter from moving around under torque.
Last edited by HotSilverBird; 03-29-2010 at 07:42 PM.
03-29-2010 | 07:49 PM
#42
You/re welcome, I personally would use a longer blt with a washer etc. With the stronger starter it won't be a problem.
If you have it welded weld the piece back on without the bolt. Then run a bottoming tap into the hole and you will be good to go.
If you look carefully these bolts are special in the way they mount to the block. The shank of the bolt is up inside the block a bit for added strength and to keep the starter from moving around under torque.
If you have it welded weld the piece back on without the bolt. Then run a bottoming tap into the hole and you will be good to go.
If you look carefully these bolts are special in the way they mount to the block. The shank of the bolt is up inside the block a bit for added strength and to keep the starter from moving around under torque.
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03-29-2010 | 07:54 PM
#43
Banned
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 334
Likes: 1
Be dam sure he turns his High frequency off if hes tries to tig weld it. Personally i would connect a ground AT the starter mount and hit it with a stick welder, no need to over do it honestly because with the stronger starter its never going to get twisted sideways again. Just get a little weld on each side to keep the piece in place good so it can be chases with a tap.
I'm not sure about welding cast aluminum either, if hes a experienced welder he will know best.
I'm not sure about welding cast aluminum either, if hes a experienced welder he will know best.
03-29-2010 | 08:05 PM
#44
Be dam sure he turns his High frequency off if hes tries to tig weld it. Personally i would connect a ground AT the starter mount and hit it with a stick welder, no need to over do it honestly because with the stronger starter its never going to get twisted sideways again. Just get a little weld on each side to keep the piece in place good so it can be chases with a tap.
I'm not sure about welding cast aluminum either, if hes a experienced welder he will know best.
I'm not sure about welding cast aluminum either, if hes a experienced welder he will know best.
Do you happen to know how much of the bolt comes out the other side of the mount if I wanted to use a bolt and washer as well?
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03-29-2010 | 08:11 PM
#45
Banned
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 334
Likes: 1
The bolt doesn't go all the way through the block i don't think. I was going to suggest using a carriage bolt from a hardware store. I never tried this but i'm sure it would work well enough to get you by for a very long time.
http://images.google.com/images?hl=e...ed=0CB0QsAQwAA
http://images.google.com/images?hl=e...ed=0CB0QsAQwAA
03-29-2010 | 08:39 PM
#47
Cool, then I'll just get whatever length bolt works enough to get a washer and nut on it. Even with a good weld job it can't hurt to add a nut.
Where do you get this 10.9 bolt?
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Where do you get this 10.9 bolt?
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03-29-2010 | 08:52 PM
#48
10.9 is just a high grade metric bolt. Like a standard thread grade 8 bolt. Here is what I mean:
http://www.boltdepot.com/fastener-in...ade-Chart.aspx
If you don't want a high grade bolt, you could always just get a threaded rod with the correct threads and cut it to any length you want. Just have your welder put a good weld and weld a nut on the end so you have something to put a wrench on.
Bolt threads are listed at the top of page 2 in this thread (link about starter bolts) That is the thread pitch you will need.
03-29-2010 | 09:10 PM
#49
Not sure what stores you have by you but I go to Sears hardware, Ace hardware, etc. Could possibly use an old center head bolt if you have any laying around. They are pretty long, but I am not sure if they are the correct threads. Would have to look that up. Possibly a metal fab shop if you have any around.
10.9 is just a high grade metric bolt. Like a standard thread grade 8 bolt. Here is what I mean:
http://www.boltdepot.com/fastener-in...ade-Chart.aspx
If you don't want a high grade bolt, you could always just get a threaded rod with the correct threads and cut it to any length you want. Just have your welder put a good weld and weld a nut on the end so you have something to put a wrench on.
Bolt threads are listed at the top of page 2 in this thread (link about starter bolts) That is the thread pitch you will need.
10.9 is just a high grade metric bolt. Like a standard thread grade 8 bolt. Here is what I mean:
http://www.boltdepot.com/fastener-in...ade-Chart.aspx
If you don't want a high grade bolt, you could always just get a threaded rod with the correct threads and cut it to any length you want. Just have your welder put a good weld and weld a nut on the end so you have something to put a wrench on.
Bolt threads are listed at the top of page 2 in this thread (link about starter bolts) That is the thread pitch you will need.
So I need to buy a bolt and a tap that matches those threads, right?
Weld a nut on the end of what?
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03-29-2010 | 11:22 PM
#50
Weld a nut on the end of a piece of threaded rod (like making your own bolt.) so you have something to hold a wrench on that will keep the threaded from moving as you tighten the top nut. It's so you could make a custom length bolt if needed. No guarantee on the strength of the rod, since I have never seen a grade on those. Only a different suggestion.
And definately do what HotSilverBird said. Use a bottoming tap, not the other.
mark jr.
And definately do what HotSilverBird said. Use a bottoming tap, not the other.
mark jr.
03-29-2010 | 11:34 PM
#51
Weld a nut on the end of a piece of threaded rod (like making your own bolt.) so you have something to hold a wrench on that will keep the threaded from moving as you tighten the top nut. It's so you could make a custom length bolt if needed. No guarantee on the strength of the rod, since I have never seen a grade on those. Only a different suggestion.
And definately do what HotSilverBird said. Use a bottoming tap, not the other.
mark jr.
And definately do what HotSilverBird said. Use a bottoming tap, not the other.
mark jr.
As for the welding the nut onto the rod. If the weld is successful then I was just gonna reuse the factory bolt and it will tighten into the newly "tapped" threads of the mount.....
Also...how do I match the tap to the threads of the factory starter bolt?
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Last edited by LS6427; 03-29-2010 at 11:40 PM.
03-29-2010 | 11:43 PM
#52
Hard to say how much of a weld is required. I don't know much about welding and I occasionally weld (something I want to study and practice this year so I don't need my dad to weld my stuff always) That is a question you will have to ask whoever is welding. Just make sure they know and are good at welding aluminum.
If it is a really strong weld, and the threads clean up nicely, then you may get away with using factory longer bolts. HotSilverBird was saying that a nut on the top would be added security.
To find the threads, take your old bolt and use a thread guage on it. It will tell you what tap to get. Just make sure it's a bottoming tap.
If it is a really strong weld, and the threads clean up nicely, then you may get away with using factory longer bolts. HotSilverBird was saying that a nut on the top would be added security.
To find the threads, take your old bolt and use a thread guage on it. It will tell you what tap to get. Just make sure it's a bottoming tap.
03-29-2010 | 11:58 PM
#53
Hard to say how much of a weld is required. I don't know much about welding and I occasionally weld (something I want to study and practice this year so I don't need my dad to weld my stuff always) That is a question you will have to ask whoever is welding. Just make sure they know and are good at welding aluminum.
If it is a really strong weld, and the threads clean up nicely, then you may get away with using factory longer bolts. HotSilverBird was saying that a nut on the top would be added security.
To find the threads, take your old bolt and use a thread guage on it. It will tell you what tap to get. Just make sure it's a bottoming tap.
If it is a really strong weld, and the threads clean up nicely, then you may get away with using factory longer bolts. HotSilverBird was saying that a nut on the top would be added security.
To find the threads, take your old bolt and use a thread guage on it. It will tell you what tap to get. Just make sure it's a bottoming tap.
I'm starting to think a longer aftermarket bolt with the washer/nut after the weld job will be better. My luck and the damn weld will come apart as I'm tightening the factory bolt back in. This way I also won't have to tap anything either.
Now I see what you guys mean about a threaded rod, it won't have a hex head or whatever on either end, thats why I'd need to weld a nut on one end..... lol
I'll take the factory bolt to Sears or Ace and just match up the same diameter and get the length I need. Then get a nut/washer to fit. I guess all I need is for the bolt to stick out the other end of the mount 1/2" to get enough grab for the nut to be sufficient.
If not I'll do the rod idea.
Pain in the **** is what this is........ lol
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03-30-2010 | 09:09 AM
#54
I would still run a bottoming tap to make sure al the threads are clean. I'm not sure if the weld would distort the threads a bit since that area is being heated up from welding or not. It's a good idea. I had to run a bottoming tap on both holes on my block when I did my tranny swap since the bolt didn't seem to catch correctly for some reason. Now the bolts run smoothly. You may be able to get away with not doing it, but you will be able to tell just by turning the bolt in the thread by hand. If you are getting any resistance, you will need the tap
Sears should have a metric and standard bolt chart by the bolt section. Possibly even a thread guage. If I remember correctly, the threads are
M10x1.5. That info is in the bolt link at the top of page 2 in this thread like I stated before. That is an extremely common tap needed for our cars.
mark jr.
Sears should have a metric and standard bolt chart by the bolt section. Possibly even a thread guage. If I remember correctly, the threads are
M10x1.5. That info is in the bolt link at the top of page 2 in this thread like I stated before. That is an extremely common tap needed for our cars.
mark jr.
Last edited by BlackDuk98; 03-30-2010 at 09:14 AM.
03-30-2010 | 09:23 AM
#55
On The Tree
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 143
Likes: 0
If you want to save the next engine use the truck starter with the two equal length bolts. It won't break off like the stock ls1 starter does. The problem is the ls1 starter is weak because of the way it mounts with one short bolt. If the engine gets tough to turn over for ANY reason the mount on the short side breaks off taking the block with it because the starter twists itself away from the engine. As it twists away from the fltwheel the longer bolt can't break off so it breaks the engine mount off with it as it moves with the starter.
The stronger truck starter can't break off like this bevause the inboard mount is stronger using the longer bolt.
Actually GM should have updated this but never did!
You can find the updated starter : http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/New-S...Q5fAccessories
read carefully it doesn't include the longer bolt, this will stop the broken block problem.
This one includes the longer bolt http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Start...item53e0021caf
All ls1 engines should use this stronger design but if you plan on doing ANY mods to the engine this should be your 1st one!
The stronger truck starter can't break off like this bevause the inboard mount is stronger using the longer bolt.
Actually GM should have updated this but never did!
You can find the updated starter : http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/New-S...Q5fAccessories
read carefully it doesn't include the longer bolt, this will stop the broken block problem.
This one includes the longer bolt http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Start...item53e0021caf
All ls1 engines should use this stronger design but if you plan on doing ANY mods to the engine this should be your 1st one!
03-30-2010 | 10:44 AM
#56
I would still run a bottoming tap to make sure al the threads are clean. I'm not sure if the weld would distort the threads a bit since that area is being heated up from welding or not. It's a good idea. I had to run a bottoming tap on both holes on my block when I did my tranny swap since the bolt didn't seem to catch correctly for some reason. Now the bolts run smoothly. You may be able to get away with not doing it, but you will be able to tell just by turning the bolt in the thread by hand. If you are getting any resistance, you will need the tap
Sears should have a metric and standard bolt chart by the bolt section. Possibly even a thread guage. If I remember correctly, the threads are
M10x1.5. That info is in the bolt link at the top of page 2 in this thread like I stated before. That is an extremely common tap needed for our cars.
mark jr.
Sears should have a metric and standard bolt chart by the bolt section. Possibly even a thread guage. If I remember correctly, the threads are
M10x1.5. That info is in the bolt link at the top of page 2 in this thread like I stated before. That is an extremely common tap needed for our cars.
mark jr.
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04-03-2010 | 04:17 PM
#57
.....................FIXED.....................
A welder came over this morning and welded the broken piece back on in 30 minutes. Ran a tap through it and bam....done. $200.00 labor.
So it can be done without removing the tranny or exhaust on that side. You just need to find an ambitious welder...because I got turned down by about 12 welding shops. And some of them said they would have to charge minimums in the $250-$400 range just to come out and try. This welder did say he'd never do it again.....he really only does marine stuff. I told him I could recommend him to other car guys....he laughed and was like....no thanks...hahahaha
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A welder came over this morning and welded the broken piece back on in 30 minutes. Ran a tap through it and bam....done. $200.00 labor.
So it can be done without removing the tranny or exhaust on that side. You just need to find an ambitious welder...because I got turned down by about 12 welding shops. And some of them said they would have to charge minimums in the $250-$400 range just to come out and try. This welder did say he'd never do it again.....he really only does marine stuff. I told him I could recommend him to other car guys....he laughed and was like....no thanks...hahahaha
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Last edited by LS6427; 04-03-2010 at 05:36 PM.
05-03-2010 | 12:32 AM
#59
if u would have dropped the motor u think he would have been ok with it? i can drop the motor 1ft'' or so. i have to get the same thing done and would rather pay 200-300 then pull motor out!!! he mig or tig?
05-03-2010 | 12:55 AM
#60
I didn't move anything, he just reached up there and got it good.
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