Royal Purple and Shell gas BAD?? False Rumor??
09-24-2010, 04:07 AM
#41
Synthetic oil is not as susceptible to thermal and impact break down. That is, it retains its ability to lubricate a lot longer than conventional oil. Conventional oil breaks down more easily because it uses paraffin wax to give it, its multi-grade properties (ie. 5w-30). That is, that it works as a 5 weight oil when cold and a 30 weight when at operating temperature.
That being said there are different classes of synthetic, if I remember correctly class 4 and 5. A class 4 is still petroleum based and uses polymers for its dual weight properties. A class 5 is all polymer based and does not use paraffin wax. The part that breaks down in synthetic oils is mostly the detergents used to clean the engine. Last I checked the only class 5s on the market were, Royal Purple, Mobil 1 and Amsoil. This was a few years ago when I did a research paper on oil for a chemistry class, so I am not sure what has changed by now.
Also a lot of oils have stopped using as much zinc/phosphorous. zinc dialkyl dithiophosphate, (ZDDP). Which I am sure most of you know is great for flat tappet engines, but it is great for any engine. They have stopped using it as much because it harms catalytic converters (yes they are worried about the small amount of oil that is normally consumed in an engine that will pass through the catalytic converter). Again the oils with the highest ZDDP count in ppm was Amsoil, Royal Purple and Mobil 1 (VR1 racing oil and a few others but they are not synthetic).
Your typical economy filter is about a 30 micron filter, most of your premium filters are 15 micron. Moving from 30 to 15 micron filter is about a 70% reduction in wear, assuming they are using the same medium (paper, or paper, cellulose and fiberglass mesh) at the same efficiency rating. Mobil 1 and Bosch are both made by Champ. Those and the Pure One filter are 15-20 micron using paper, cellulose, and fiberglass mesh which gives them like a 97-98% efficiency which is good. Stay away from paper filters if you are worried that much about it. And supposedly Fram uses cardboard on their backing caps which again supposedly saturates with oil and allows small pieces of cardboard in your engine.
I will leave it at that, I am sure you can tell I could talk all day about this.
That being said there are different classes of synthetic, if I remember correctly class 4 and 5. A class 4 is still petroleum based and uses polymers for its dual weight properties. A class 5 is all polymer based and does not use paraffin wax. The part that breaks down in synthetic oils is mostly the detergents used to clean the engine. Last I checked the only class 5s on the market were, Royal Purple, Mobil 1 and Amsoil. This was a few years ago when I did a research paper on oil for a chemistry class, so I am not sure what has changed by now.
Also a lot of oils have stopped using as much zinc/phosphorous. zinc dialkyl dithiophosphate, (ZDDP). Which I am sure most of you know is great for flat tappet engines, but it is great for any engine. They have stopped using it as much because it harms catalytic converters (yes they are worried about the small amount of oil that is normally consumed in an engine that will pass through the catalytic converter). Again the oils with the highest ZDDP count in ppm was Amsoil, Royal Purple and Mobil 1 (VR1 racing oil and a few others but they are not synthetic).
Your typical economy filter is about a 30 micron filter, most of your premium filters are 15 micron. Moving from 30 to 15 micron filter is about a 70% reduction in wear, assuming they are using the same medium (paper, or paper, cellulose and fiberglass mesh) at the same efficiency rating. Mobil 1 and Bosch are both made by Champ. Those and the Pure One filter are 15-20 micron using paper, cellulose, and fiberglass mesh which gives them like a 97-98% efficiency which is good. Stay away from paper filters if you are worried that much about it. And supposedly Fram uses cardboard on their backing caps which again supposedly saturates with oil and allows small pieces of cardboard in your engine.
I will leave it at that, I am sure you can tell I could talk all day about this.
Mobil 1, Royal Purple, and Amsoil are all group IV, which are PAO oils, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyalphaolefin. There are Group V, which are made from Esters http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esters, such as Red Line, and Motul. A good link to look at for Base Oil Groups is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lubricants#Base_oil_groups.
As far as ZDDP goes Amsoil and Royal Purple both have around 1000 ppm for their oils, with certain weights having a little more. Mobil 1 will have a max of 800ppm to be able to carry the API SM rating. Mobil 1 does have a racing oil with a ton of ZDDP in it, as does Amsoil. Also Red Line also has a lot of ZDDP in their street oils and even more in their racing oils. ZDDP is not the only anti wear additive in oils though. Also is also a lot more then just anti wear additives. I am certainly know all knowing, and it would be best to be able to talk to a tribologist. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribology
Now for the filters Bosch is made by Purolator and Bosch owns Purolator. Also Amsoil (made by Donaldson I believe) and Royal Purple (made by Champ Labs) have filters out where the media is synthetic media (fiberglass) that flows really well while doing a great job of trapping dirt and other things that can damage your engine. Also the part about the cardboard end caps breaking off and getting into the engine is a rumor, if you look at the center tube a piece of cardboard couldnt get through there if it somehow got past the filter media. Now you might think it could get past the bypass but most (I won't say all as I do not know) GM engines have the bypass in the engine block so the filter does not have one.
09-24-2010, 04:13 AM
#42
I top off my engine with Oil of Olay. There's nothing out there better to keep you going smooth and the internals entirely rejuvenated 
...
Ok ok.. i have to agree with one thing in these threads... oil is oil. Except penzfoiled, only god knows what's in that garbage. Anyways, I've ran $2 a quart Castrol in my 76 since forever, and the last i checked the inside of my engine (factory pontiac 354) it still looked brand spanking new (can't say the same for the outside lol)
I do like RP in my ws6. Is it necesary? Nope... Over priced? Sure... But I'd like to think it really does a superior job of lubricating. The problem that people seem to have with it is that since it's advertised as being capable of extended oil change intervals, supposedly it eventually starts to break down leaving a graphite residue that can cause problems. I wouldn't know cuz i still change my oil every 3 or 4 months with maybe a thousand miles.
...
Ok ok.. i have to agree with one thing in these threads... oil is oil. Except penzfoiled, only god knows what's in that garbage. Anyways, I've ran $2 a quart Castrol in my 76 since forever, and the last i checked the inside of my engine (factory pontiac 354) it still looked brand spanking new (can't say the same for the outside lol)
I do like RP in my ws6. Is it necesary? Nope... Over priced? Sure... But I'd like to think it really does a superior job of lubricating. The problem that people seem to have with it is that since it's advertised as being capable of extended oil change intervals, supposedly it eventually starts to break down leaving a graphite residue that can cause problems. I wouldn't know cuz i still change my oil every 3 or 4 months with maybe a thousand miles.
09-24-2010, 04:15 AM
#43
Agree.
People are suckers for marketing bullshit. RP, Mobil 1, Amsoil......and others are bullshit synthetic oils and are absolutely no better than off the shelf non-synthetic cheap *** Castrol GTX for $2.50 a quart. I use Castrol GTX 20w50 in my 427ci and have for 145,000 miles and 8+ years and its still PERFECT, and I mean perfect.......oh, wait...."no issues". I love hearing people say that. "No issues"...... What does that mean, the engine is either fine or you blew it up......lol
Oil is oil. Synthetic oil is just a complete marketing scam rip off "oil" and just something for the gear heads to talk about at the bar.....
These oil threads are hilarious. They're hilarious because they do nothing to help anyone out. There's nothing you can do to change to another oil and make anything about an engine better. These LSx engines are basic, every day V8's. There is absolutely nothing special about them. Its a friggin GM engine, just like all the rest of them.
I will never toss money in the garbage and buy synthetic oils, not off the shelf oils anyway. If I ever decide to spend money on a synthetic oil, it will be the brands of oil that ARE NOT off the shelf joke oils like Amsoil, RP and Mobil 1, etc......it will be a badass, real synthetic oil.
Keep the **** clean...end of story.
.
People are suckers for marketing bullshit. RP, Mobil 1, Amsoil......and others are bullshit synthetic oils and are absolutely no better than off the shelf non-synthetic cheap *** Castrol GTX for $2.50 a quart. I use Castrol GTX 20w50 in my 427ci and have for 145,000 miles and 8+ years and its still PERFECT, and I mean perfect.......oh, wait...."no issues". I love hearing people say that. "No issues"...... What does that mean, the engine is either fine or you blew it up......lol
Oil is oil. Synthetic oil is just a complete marketing scam rip off "oil" and just something for the gear heads to talk about at the bar.....
These oil threads are hilarious. They're hilarious because they do nothing to help anyone out. There's nothing you can do to change to another oil and make anything about an engine better. These LSx engines are basic, every day V8's. There is absolutely nothing special about them. Its a friggin GM engine, just like all the rest of them.
I will never toss money in the garbage and buy synthetic oils, not off the shelf oils anyway. If I ever decide to spend money on a synthetic oil, it will be the brands of oil that ARE NOT off the shelf joke oils like Amsoil, RP and Mobil 1, etc......it will be a badass, real synthetic oil.
Keep the **** clean...end of story.
.
THAANKKK YOOOU! Couldn't have said it better myself. All these people that say "I ONLY run BP gas in my car, I ONLY put Valvoline in mine."....are idiots. They base it ALL off of what some dumb mechanic or commercial TOLD THEM. Oil is oil, gas is gas.....our cars are nothing special or exotic, and don't NEED anything special or exotic.
I think of this quote fits both of you, "Better to keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt"
09-24-2010, 04:53 AM
#44
I've always run rp in any performance build I do, read up on them, so far they killed in every durability test I"ve seen done.
I've pushed stock motors in other cars wayyyyyy past their supposed hp limit and rpm limits and when torn down bearing wear was very very minimul after 20k miles and beating the **** of out the thing. I had a cobalt we put a 60-1 on, stock motor never opened up, 450+whp on 23.5psi. At 46k miles (boosted since 20k miles) pulled the motor, stil had near perfect 190psi compression across all 4 and main and rod bearings looked like new, plus I was running the thing to 7600 rpm (stock rev limit is 6450) and had a few missed shifts where I went over 8k.
I've pushed stock motors in other cars wayyyyyy past their supposed hp limit and rpm limits and when torn down bearing wear was very very minimul after 20k miles and beating the **** of out the thing. I had a cobalt we put a 60-1 on, stock motor never opened up, 450+whp on 23.5psi. At 46k miles (boosted since 20k miles) pulled the motor, stil had near perfect 190psi compression across all 4 and main and rod bearings looked like new, plus I was running the thing to 7600 rpm (stock rev limit is 6450) and had a few missed shifts where I went over 8k.
04-02-2011, 10:33 AM
#45
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I know i am bringing this thread back from the Dead but i just could not help myself to indulge in the action......the wallyworld by me is remodeling, and they had the whole selection of Royal Purple for $6.00 Dollars a quart.
Guess what?
I wiped them clean......5W-30...10W-30.....48 quarts.
Guess what?
I wiped them clean......5W-30...10W-30.....48 quarts.
04-02-2011, 02:37 PM
#47
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I know i am bringing this thread back from the Dead but i just could not help myself to indulge in the action......the wallyworld by me is remodeling, and they had the whole selection of Royal Purple for $6.00 Dollars a quart.
Guess what?
I wiped them clean......5W-30...10W-30.....48 quarts.
Guess what?
I wiped them clean......5W-30...10W-30.....48 quarts.
You got ripped off.
04-02-2011, 04:31 PM
#48
Amsoil site basically shows how other brands compare to their stuff by oil analysis, chemistry etc. R P doesn't even factor in the top 3 for most tests, esp their gear oil. As for Shell gas, they (admittedly) got their formula wrong about 8 years ago in N Ontario (Canada) and destroyed quite a few automoblie and snowmobile engines. Then the sending units for fuel level on GM vehicles were getting fouled by Shell gas. Shell was saying that GM went to non-mercury based fuel sending units that were NOT designed to work with THEIR fuel, that GM should change the units, no prob with the gas. Take a guess whose oil and fuel I DON'T use up here?
04-05-2011, 11:16 PM
#49
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ive started running the castrol syntec edge as of late, its cheaper than rp and mobil but supposidly equal? who knows... but ive always ran synthetic like stated before. If rather be safe than sorry.
