AviatorRL

iTrader: (1)

I guess I need to replace my motor because its doing the same thing.

DrkPhynx

Found this thread from Google - and another in Stereos and Electronics which I just posted to before realizing what section it was in. This might be the better place to ask....

Friday my driver's side window stopped. I went to check air pressures, and when I pulled to the pump I put them both down half-way (so the declining edge sinks into the leading corner at the mirror). On those occasions when I do open the windows, this is the most common point for me to place them.

When I got back in and rolled them up, the passenger side worked fine, the drivers side started to move more slowly than usual and stopped about halfway from where it was to fully closed. I tried opening the door and moving it, no good. Then I tried pulling the window up while working the switch and it still wouldn't move.

Having read here long ago that the motors were weak compared to the size/weight of the glass, they were likely to die, so I figured that is what happened. I don't mind replacing a part (other than it being a pain in the ***), but every video or write up I've seen so far involves drilling holes in the door. I really do not want to put holes in my car (nor have anyone else put them in). Is there any way to do this without drilling? How were they installed during assembly?

For note - I bought the car new, it has around 21K on it now, never sees salt, out in the rain from time to time though. Tend to stick to a/c because I don't want the sun on me, only put them down at night or when I get air, etc. Either put them half down, or almost all the way, I stopped letting them bottom out very early when I'd read that the bowing out it causes contributes to the panel cracking (which mine are anyway, but it's still a habit to keep it just above full bottom). And I also do one at a time, up or down.

I've not noticed any issues at all with the speed or behavior the last few times I've had to use them. It just stopped out of nowhere. Was a warm day, but only the upper 80s. It was taken to work though so sat outside that day.

Now that I am writing this though, I have occasionally heard a clunk when raising the driver's door. It was not consistent by any means, and only happened on occasion, and hasn't for quite a while now. No idea what it is, or why it wouldn't be consistent. Now I am wondering if it's related to the one side dying, because I never use just 1 window. I move them one at a time, but if one is down I always put the other down the same amount.

wssix99

iTrader: (5)

That's not true. There is a spring built in to the regulator that acts as a counterweight. It handles the entire weight of the glass.

The motors are notorious for being poorly sealed and susceptible to rust/contamination. They, and every other door component inside of the vapor barrier gets wet whenever it rains, etc.

The new motor design, which seems to have recently disappeared from the market, addressed the sealing issues. It looks like the only new motors available now are the original design.


The GM repair procedure mimics how they were installed at the factory. It calls for removing the regulator and motor as a unit, switching the motor out of the car, and then riveting the assembly back in the car with special rivets.

I started my repairs in this manner and originally felt the way you do here, until we started coming across this problem:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/general-m...-included.html

The method (shbox method) for the on-the-car motor replacement bypasses the regulator rivet removal and lessens the wear-and-tear that this causes on the door. I drilled the holes and now replace my motors with the regulator still in the door so my regulator mounting will stay solid for years to come. It seems like a bad thing at first, but ends up to be the best thing for the life of the car. (BTW - The special rivets you need for the regulator area PITA to get, are expensive, and require a special oversize riveter.)


This is another myth. The cracks are caused by stresses imparted by tight staples attaching the top felt window brush to the door panel. Even if you never use the window, the panels will still expand/contract in the summer heat/winter cold and the cracking will happen. All you need to do is drill out the staple holes, as instructed in the door cracking thread, and you are good to go - use your windows all you want!


This is not good. Something is broken or loose in the door. The best thing would be to check for movement with the door panel off.

There are also rubber bumpers inside the bottom of the door cavity, which the door glass rests on when it's all the way down. They are just slotted in to cut-outs in the bottom of the door and will sometimes come loose and flop around - making noise. You may want to check them.

DrkPhynx

Was just what I'd heard early on as an explanation both for the slow speed and the tendency for them to die. Though your comment makes sense too.


Joy. The day I picked it up it was pouring down rain and for 5 years it had to sit outside under a cover before I was able to start garaging it. Actually like driving in the rain, would hate to have to hide from it.


Hm. Is there a link somewhere to the factory/dealer procedure? You make a good point, but I am still curious. Where would the tool you mention be obtained?

Ultimately I might follow the on the door method anyway, but want to compare and consider options before I start anything.


I used to be HPP and started that sticky, changed name after getting enough grief over it. Hate coming up with usernames (which is why I chose that one initially). lol Anyway, I never did get to getting mine apart and the p/s is split to the leather insert. The d/s is just starting. The fixes in that thread regarding the after the fact repair (as in mine) just seem like they'd leave a scar or mark where the bonding took place. Someday I want to change stuff up in the interior, so I've left it. Doesn't seem to have any ill effects so far (been a few years I am ashamed to admit. When the mortgage takes all of your money, there's nothing left for cherished toys)


That was my first thought. This too was several years ago. But it went up and sealed as it always had. I parked it, forgot about it because I rarely drive it, later the window worked fine. Then sometime after that I heard it again, but it still worked fine. Like I said, inconsistent, but didn't affect sealing or positioning or operation. I'll see what I can see this weekend if I have time to get in there and take a look. (already feeling weird knowing that I can't drive it in perfect weather. And the dead CD changer in the Dak only makes that worse lol)

wssix99

iTrader: (5)

The factory method is in the Factory Service Manual. This is copy written, so I doubt you will find a copy on-line. The Manual comes in a 3 volume set from Helm, Inc. From time to time, you can also find a decent used set, for your year, on eBay.

The procedure is in the FSM, but there is one dangerous part... With the regulator out of the door, you have to safe the assembly with a large bolt/washers so that the regulator spring doesn't fly apart when you remove the motor from the assembly. (... and take off your hand) With the regulator-on-door method, where you drill the holes in the skin, the weight of the window glass balances the spring and it isn't a worry.

The procedure requires special aluminum jacket/steel mandrel rivets, which can be purchased from any GM dealer. They requires a large pop riveter, which can handle a 1/4" rivet. Most look something like this:

Firebrian

Latest I've read around here is that the improved window motors are no longer being made. So it's pot luck out there again. My passenger window is almost to that point where I need a motor. It's rarely, if ever seen any rain on that door (1999 with 17K miles).