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Old 11-28-2011, 08:36 PM
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My crankshaft position sensor keeps going out. I replaced one about a month ago. 3 days ago car wouldn't start. So went and bought another one. Replaced it and all was good for 2 days and today my car wouldn't start. Cranks, getting fuel to the rails but I don't think the injectors are shooting the cylinders. Fuel pressure is 55 with key on and 60 when cranking. Shouldn't pressure drop when cranking? The CPS are Duralast from Autozone. What do I do from here? I really need to get the car started. No spark either. Car is 98 camaro Z28. Help me please........
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Old 11-28-2011, 09:03 PM
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Pull the two tops off the PCM and check pin #43.....see if its burnt or discolored. If it is, the PCM is shot. It happened to me.
(((I'd tell ya which top to pull off but I forgot which one has pin #43 under it.)))
(((Also, I think its #43....either way.....check that area, its in that row of pins. Check all of them while your at it.)))


If they look good, you'll have to start looking at frayed wiring, maybe a bad plug end.

I think a broken reluctor wheel can also cause this, but that means an engine tear down.

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Old 11-28-2011, 09:46 PM
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What if there is no check engine light? I'm going to check the pins. I 'll keep you updated if I find out anything.
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Old 11-28-2011, 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Ronerik View Post
What if there is no check engine light? I'm going to check the pins. I 'll keep you updated if I find out anything.
Not all PCM's will throw a code or the SES light. They are not all the same and they shouldn't be treated the same.

Mine doesn't show codes or SES lights for obvious things........but other peoples cars do.

Check the pins and the surrounding area for any signs of burnt coloration. Then I'd check the plug end for proper voltage. Other guys on here know what those readings should be, I'm not sure.

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Old 11-28-2011, 10:25 PM
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I checked the pins and nothing burnt. I'll have to check the plug end tomorrow. Why would the last one work a month and then the second 2 days? I have had this car since August and cashed some of my retirement stocks ( I'm 35) to pay cash for it. During those first 2 1/2 months no problems with not starting. Oct 20th is when the first one went. now this one went. I hope it's nothing major or my wife will probably leave me. No joke...
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Old 11-28-2011, 11:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Ronerik View Post
I checked the pins and nothing burnt. I'll have to check the plug end tomorrow. Why would the last one work a month and then the second 2 days? I have had this car since August and cashed some of my retirement stocks ( I'm 35) to pay cash for it. During those first 2 1/2 months no problems with not starting. Oct 20th is when the first one went. now this one went. I hope it's nothing major or my wife will probably leave me. No joke...
Sometimes theres wiring issues that fry the sensors....sometimes fast, sometimes not so fast. I doubt you have a broken reluctor wheel inside the engine, otherwise the issues would be there from the get-go and not stop.

So you have an electrical issue. Could be a loose ground wire too.

Reach behind both heads and feel for loose bolts. There is one behind the passengers side head and either two or three on the drivers side head. You can reach back and feel all of them. Just make sure they are all tight.

When mine came loose a couple years ago....it caused the PCM to slowly fry from the inside out. My pin row where the Crank Shaft Position sensor was, was burnt. So were like 4 others on either side of it.

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Old 11-28-2011, 11:30 PM
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Hey.....also, you positive its the Crank Shaft Position sensor failing. A bad Cam Shaft Position sensor will also cause your symptoms.

Even though you'r not getting an SES light.....there still might be a code in there. Go get it read for codes.

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Old 11-29-2011, 06:09 PM
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Well, went and rented a code reader and bought a battery charger because I drained the battery last night. I hooked up the reader and no codes found. Went to the status menu and it said everything ok. No misfires, o2 sensors, nothing. Everything ok. So hooked up the battery charger and let it charge a little. Still no start. Put it on 50a start and tried to start it but no go. Waited couple minutes and it fired up! Unplugged the charger and drove it around for 8 miles and parked it in the garage. Waited 10 minutes and fired up again. I had the battery tested when the first sensor went out (if that is what it was) and Autozone said it was good. Could it not be giving it enough cranking power to let it fire? I don't want to try again tonight because I need some sleep!!! If she don't fire it will be another sleepless night. Could it be something this simple? What do you think? Could it still be something else? I'm afraid that it just happened to fire at that moment.

I drove around and kept checking the code reader and still no codes. According to the scanner it's all good.

My next step is to come home from work and see if it will fire. If not, I'll use the charger to jump it and if it fires I can narrow it down. If it still acts up then back to square one.
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Old 11-29-2011, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Ronerik View Post
Well, went and rented a code reader and bought a battery charger because I drained the battery last night. I hooked up the reader and no codes found. Went to the status menu and it said everything ok. No misfires, o2 sensors, nothing. Everything ok. So hooked up the battery charger and let it charge a little. Still no start. Put it on 50a start and tried to start it but no go. Waited couple minutes and it fired up! Unplugged the charger and drove it around for 8 miles and parked it in the garage. Waited 10 minutes and fired up again. I had the battery tested when the first sensor went out (if that is what it was) and Autozone said it was good. Could it not be giving it enough cranking power to let it fire? I don't want to try again tonight because I need some sleep!!! If she don't fire it will be another sleepless night. Could it be something this simple? What do you think? Could it still be something else? I'm afraid that it just happened to fire at that moment.

I drove around and kept checking the code reader and still no codes. According to the scanner it's all good.

My next step is to come home from work and see if it will fire. If not, I'll use the charger to jump it and if it fires I can narrow it down. If it still acts up then back to square one.
If the engine is turning over (cranking) normally, then it should start up if you have fuel-air-spark. If you're not getting spark though, like you said in the first post.....its either the CrankshaftPS or the CamShaftPS.

Or.....PCM is fried. Not many things can completely stop the spark. If it were just 1 or 2 cylinders not sparking then it can be a plug, coil, wire, etc.....

But all 8 at the same time.....has to be a sensor or the PCM.

How do you know there's no spark? Did you take a plug out, put it back into the wire...crank it and see if it sparks?

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Old 11-29-2011, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by LS6427 View Post
If the engine is turning over (cranking) normally, then it should start up if you have fuel-air-spark. If you're not getting spark though, like you said in the first post.....its either the CrankshaftPS or the CamShaftPS.

Or.....PCM is fried. Not many things can completely stop the spark. If it were just 1 or 2 cylinders not sparking then it can be a plug, coil, wire, etc.....

But all 8 at the same time.....has to be a sensor or the PCM.

How do you know there's no spark? Did you take a plug out, put it back into the wire...crank it and see if it sparks?

.
When the first one went out we put a timing light on the plug wires coming off the coils and none showed spark. I haven't checked it since OCT 20th before we replaced the first one. If it doesn't fire tomorrow I will check for spark with a spark plug.
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Old 11-30-2011, 09:50 PM
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Well, no spark, no fuel going to cylinders. Pulled a plug and plug was dry after cranking and no spark. When plug was pulled no gas was coming out. After cranking no smell of fuel. So fuel going to rails, engine cranks, no spark, crank sensor been changed twice. Now what? Camshaft PS or try a CrankPS from the dealership?
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Old 11-30-2011, 10:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Ronerik View Post
Well, no spark, no fuel going to cylinders. Pulled a plug and plug was dry after cranking and no spark. When plug was pulled no gas was coming out. After cranking no smell of fuel. So fuel going to rails, engine cranks, no spark, crank sensor been changed twice. Now what? Camshaft PS or try a CrankPS from the dealership?
I don't think it matters if its AC Delco or not, they seem to be good quality at the auto parts stores.

Cam Shaft sensor is the one that controls fueling and spark. I'm surprised you're not getting a code for it though. It would suck to remove the intake to change that sensor and it not be the issue.

When PCM's are frying from the inside out they stop throwing codes. Mine did that.

I've got an AC Delco CamShaft sensor new still in the box that I bought from the dealership......cheap if you want it.

But I would get someone over to the car with a real OBDII scanner first and see if they can find anything odd.....

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Old 11-30-2011, 11:03 PM
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Are you positive you aren't getting injector pulse? I bet you have a bad ignition relay from the sounds of your symptoms. Try replacing that (cheap) and see what happens.

If that isn't it, I bet it's the garbage aftermarket crank sensor you are using. I've seen so many problems with aftermarket sensors that I won't ever buy them. Can't you return the crank sensor and get a new one? If so, see if that fires it up and if it does it might not hurt to get a GM one.
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Old 12-01-2011, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by lt1pwr1 View Post
Are you positive you aren't getting injector pulse? I bet you have a bad ignition relay from the sounds of your symptoms. Try replacing that (cheap) and see what happens.

If that isn't it, I bet it's the garbage aftermarket crank sensor you are using. I've seen so many problems with aftermarket sensors that I won't ever buy them. Can't you return the crank sensor and get a new one? If so, see if that fires it up and if it does it might not hurt to get a GM one.

I'll replace that when I get home tonight. After I replaced the first one the car fired right up. Replaced the second one and started right up but only lasted like 3 days. After I do replace them the first crank it won't fire, but on the second crank it fires right up. Did that on both sensors. The first one lasted a month. Had zero issues with starting. Then one day it wouldn't start. So changed it again. Car ran fine for 2 days and then wouldn't start. I found one at Oreilly's made by BWR with lifetime warranty. The Duralast only has 2 year warranty. So I'll try that one and replace the ignition relay and see what happens......
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Old 12-01-2011, 03:43 PM
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Another thing, you will need to do a crankshaft relearn procedure on the car after you install the new CPS. This can only be done via Tech 2 scanner or HP tuners/EFI live type of system. There may be others that can do it but either way you'll want to get that done in order for the car to run correctly afterwards.
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Old 12-01-2011, 10:13 PM
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Originally Posted by lt1pwr1 View Post
Another thing, you will need to do a crankshaft relearn procedure on the car after you install the new CPS. This can only be done via Tech 2 scanner or HP tuners/EFI live type of system. There may be others that can do it but either way you'll want to get that done in order for the car to run correctly afterwards.
I was told just to drive it for about 50 miles. Will this hurt my car if I drive it then?

Here are some updates. I put in a 3rd CPS and tried to start it with no luck. So battery was pretty well drained after sitting and cranking on it for a while. Hooked up charger and it took about 2 hours to charge. When done, tried to start. Cranks fast but no luck. So after about 3 tries I just sat there in the car debating on throwing something when I get out, buying a bottle of rum, and deciding my next move. Then it happened, I heard a click come from the engine bay. Turned the key and it started. The couple minutes I sat there I had it in the on position. Maybe the security? I think the alternator is not charging the battery. The battery was so low that it cranked the engine but messed with the security. Or I just didn't do it right. I don't know. I have the battery on an automatic charger doing a 2amp slow charge to keep the battery fresh. If I go to start it after work and it fires right up then I will feel real good. Could it be a combination of VATS and low battery voltage? I think after reading on the net just now the the click was the VATS relay to the ECM functioning. Some reason the starter would turn but no fuel, no spark. We will see........

Could it be the relay itself going bad??? All I now is it clicked and then it started. I turned it off and started it 3 more times without waiting. Lets say I didn't hook up the charger to it and after work I started it and it didn't start? Then what?

Time for a
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Old 12-01-2011, 11:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Ronerik View Post
I was told just to drive it for about 50 miles. Will this hurt my car if I drive it then?

Here are some updates. I put in a 3rd CPS and tried to start it with no luck. So battery was pretty well drained after sitting and cranking on it for a while. Hooked up charger and it took about 2 hours to charge. When done, tried to start. Cranks fast but no luck. So after about 3 tries I just sat there in the car debating on throwing something when I get out, buying a bottle of rum, and deciding my next move. Then it happened, I heard a click come from the engine bay. Turned the key and it started. The couple minutes I sat there I had it in the on position. Maybe the security? I think the alternator is not charging the battery. The battery was so low that it cranked the engine but messed with the security. Or I just didn't do it right. I don't know. I have the battery on an automatic charger doing a 2amp slow charge to keep the battery fresh. If I go to start it after work and it fires right up then I will feel real good. Could it be a combination of VATS and low battery voltage? I think after reading on the net just now the the click was the VATS relay to the ECM functioning. Some reason the starter would turn but no fuel, no spark. We will see........

Could it be the relay itself going bad??? All I now is it clicked and then it started. I turned it off and started it 3 more times without waiting. Lets say I didn't hook up the charger to it and after work I started it and it didn't start? Then what?

Time for a

Ok, did you end up replacing the ignition relay? If you heard a click and it started it could be the ignition relay.

Keep in mind if your starter is turning over and the engine is cranking then it's not a battery issue or starter issue. I think you are mixing those up, just because a car won't start, doesn't mean it's a starter problem necessarily. Funny b/c the name of it causes it to be the "culprit" in every no start. Every time my friends call me and say their cars won't start it's always, "I know it's the starter man because it's not starting" lol. Anyways, replace that ignition relay or swap it with the A/C relay when the car won't start and see if it starts right after.

Also, when you left the key in the run position while sitting there you are sending constant voltage to that ignition relay and it finally clicked and the points in the relay made contact is what it sounds like.

And about the Crankshaft relearn- it won't necessarily hurt to not do it but I've heard of people having running problems after installing a new CPS and not doing the relearn. BTW, if you still have your factory CPS I would honestly put that back in if I were you...up to you.
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Old 12-02-2011, 06:08 AM
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Originally Posted by lt1pwr1 View Post
Ok, did you end up replacing the ignition relay? If you heard a click and it started it could be the ignition relay.

Keep in mind if your starter is turning over and the engine is cranking then it's not a battery issue or starter issue. I think you are mixing those up, just because a car won't start, doesn't mean it's a starter problem necessarily. Funny b/c the name of it causes it to be the "culprit" in every no start. Every time my friends call me and say their cars won't start it's always, "I know it's the starter man because it's not starting" lol. Anyways, replace that ignition relay or swap it with the A/C relay when the car won't start and see if it starts right after.

Also, when you left the key in the run position while sitting there you are sending constant voltage to that ignition relay and it finally clicked and the points in the relay made contact is what it sounds like.

And about the Crankshaft relearn- it won't necessarily hurt to not do it but I've heard of people having running problems after installing a new CPS and not doing the relearn. BTW, if you still have your factory CPS I would honestly put that back in if I were you...up to you.
I did not end up replacing the ignition relay. I will tonight. Could not find one at Autozone or Advanced. Going to dealer. The only reason I figured it was VATS was because of the time I waited. I read that VATS will not send the signal to the relay for 4 minutes. I figured I was in there 4 minutes. I will replace the relay and see what happens. As long as it's nothing major.
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Old 12-02-2011, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Ronerik View Post
I did not end up replacing the ignition relay. I will tonight. Could not find one at Autozone or Advanced. Going to dealer. The only reason I figured it was VATS was because of the time I waited. I read that VATS will not send the signal to the relay for 4 minutes. I figured I was in there 4 minutes. I will replace the relay and see what happens. As long as it's nothing major.
I'm pretty sure a VATS issue will cause no injector pulse AND also the starter will not engage. You have the starter engaging just fine from what it sounds like so I don't think you have a VATS issue.

Before you buy a relay, see if the car will start. If it doesn't, just swap your A/C relay with the ignition relay and see if it works right after. That's a quick test that is free. If it works, then go buy the new relay because they are more than you probably think from the dealer......
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Old 12-02-2011, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by lt1pwr1 View Post
I'm pretty sure a VATS issue will cause no injector pulse AND also the starter will not engage. You have the starter engaging just fine from what it sounds like so I don't think you have a VATS issue.

Before you buy a relay, see if the car will start. If it doesn't, just swap your A/C relay with the ignition relay and see if it works right after. That's a quick test that is free. If it works, then go buy the new relay because they are more than you probably think from the dealer......
That's what I figured with the starter but it was the length of time I left the key that made me think possible VATS issue. I'll go home after work, try and start it. If it don't then I will leave key on and see if the relay clicks. If it does the I will do the swap with the AC relay to see if that fixes it. I will report back results. Crosses fingers that it is the relay........
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