Wheel Alignment Problem
01-29-2012, 09:12 PM
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Wheel Alignment Problem About a month ago, my trans am slid off the road into a ditch. i wont go into details about it. but after getting it out of the ditch, i noticed that the passenger side tire seemed to be misaligned. i'll do my best to describe it for you. lets say your sitting in the car, with the steering wheel straight. the driver side tire is straight like it normally would, but the passenger side tire is bent out, like you were turning the car slightly to the right. its not bent out like 45*, but its still pretty noticeable. i wish i had a picture of it, but its stored in my barn for the winter. i looked at the suspension, and i didnt notice anything bent or broken. so im wondering, could it be the rack and pinion thats slightly bent? let me know what you think.
EDIT: found out whats wrong! see pictures below..
EDIT: found out whats wrong! see pictures below..
Last edited by rg501; 02-04-2012 at 07:13 PM.
01-30-2012, 08:15 AM
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I'd take the wheels off and do a visual inspection that way you can see the steering/suspension system. Usually when a tie rod bends it will move the tire inwards because it's gotten shorter. However, it might be possible that the inner tie rod is destroyed on the rack side so check for play in the rack when you do an inspection. Also, take a look at the lower control arm mounting point on the K-member and see if the lower control arm shifted out of alignment. If nothing is bent or broken the only possibility is the lower control arm moving. How did someone pull the car out of the ditch? I'd check in that location to make sure nothing was damaged.
01-30-2012, 09:33 AM
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I'd take the wheels off and do a visual inspection that way you can see the steering/suspension system. Usually when a tie rod bends it will move the tire inwards because it's gotten shorter. However, it might be possible that the inner tie rod is destroyed on the rack side so check for play in the rack when you do an inspection. Also, take a look at the lower control arm mounting point on the K-member and see if the lower control arm shifted out of alignment. If nothing is bent or broken the only possibility is the lower control arm moving. How did someone pull the car out of the ditch? I'd check in that location to make sure nothing was damaged.
01-30-2012, 05:21 PM
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i had it in a shop, and they couldn't see anything wrong with the suspension, which made them think it was the rack and pinion was screwed up. so thats the only reason i was thinking it was the rack and pinion. im thinking about getting it into another shop to get another opinion, and then attempt to fix it myself.
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01-30-2012, 07:23 PM
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i had it in a shop, and they couldn't see anything wrong with the suspension, which made them think it was the rack and pinion was screwed up. so thats the only reason i was thinking it was the rack and pinion. im thinking about getting it into another shop to get another opinion, and then attempt to fix it myself.
01-30-2012, 08:27 PM
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A very simple (and free at most places) Alignment check will tell you a lot. Get your alignment printout and afterwards tell them you will do the work yourself.
Toe out especially in opposite directions will cause the steering issues you described. With a printout it will narrow it down a lot especially if something is bent (control arms, inner or outer tie rods, hub) causing Camber/Caster etc to be out as well.
Good luck with it and when you get the printout post it so we can see.
Toe out especially in opposite directions will cause the steering issues you described. With a printout it will narrow it down a lot especially if something is bent (control arms, inner or outer tie rods, hub) causing Camber/Caster etc to be out as well.
Good luck with it and when you get the printout post it so we can see.
01-30-2012, 10:40 PM
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The shop is below par if it cannot figure out why one wheel is out and another isn't. It's possible that the hub is damaged but at this point it could be anything in the steering or suspension. It will take a qualified suspension/steering expert to figure out what's causing the issue. I have seen all sorts of stuff in my career as a dealer tech when cars are involved in accidents. Do a thorough visual inspection then if you can't find anything do a hands on inspection. A hands on inspection will involve moving suspension pieces to check for play or removing parts for a deeper visual inspection. Something is wrong if the steering changed after an accident so don't take the "nothing is wrong" attitude from a shop.
01-30-2012, 10:50 PM
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ive been reading up on camber/caster/toe like CO99Z28Vert mentioned, and i found a little picture that shows basically what my car looks like at this point. maybe this will help explain it a little clearer.
basically, you can see that the right front tire is pointed outwards. that is exactly how mine looks.
EDIT: so it seems like the camber and caster are uneffected here, just the toe of the wheel.
basically, you can see that the right front tire is pointed outwards. that is exactly how mine looks.
EDIT: so it seems like the camber and caster are uneffected here, just the toe of the wheel.
01-30-2012, 11:07 PM
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figured i might as well post this up here too:
the estimate i got from the dealership says that it needs a new control arm and steering knuckle. they told me that it should fix it, but it might need further alignment after those 2 parts are replaced. thoughts?
the estimate i got from the dealership says that it needs a new control arm and steering knuckle. they told me that it should fix it, but it might need further alignment after those 2 parts are replaced. thoughts?
01-30-2012, 11:50 PM
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ive been reading up on camber/caster/toe like CO99Z28Vert mentioned, and i found a little picture that shows basically what my car looks like at this point. maybe this will help explain it a little clearer.
basically, you can see that the right front tire is pointed outwards. that is exactly how mine looks.
EDIT: so it seems like the camber and caster are uneffected here, just the toe of the wheel.
basically, you can see that the right front tire is pointed outwards. that is exactly how mine looks.
EDIT: so it seems like the camber and caster are uneffected here, just the toe of the wheel.
It will need an alignment after those parts are replaced. If you are not going to trust the dealership's word then it's up to you to find the issue. Getting an alignment check is useless because it's obvious that you have a problem on that side. Compare your drivers spindle to your passenger and the same goes for the control arms. Like I stated in my first post, in order have that much toe out the inner tie rod would be broken and easy to find in an inspection. If they didn't find that then the control arm has moved/bent or the spindle is bent. If you look at the K-member you would be able to see if the washer has been moved on either the front or rear bolts.
01-31-2012, 01:39 AM
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I have understood what you're saying since the first post and know the fundamentals of suspension and steering. You are incorrect about the caster and camber being uneffected especially since it hasn't been measured. If anything is bent or shifted that effects camber the toe will be changed durastically. That's why caster and camber adjustments are always made first before any toe adjustments.
It will need an alignment after those parts are replaced. If you are not going to trust the dealership's word then it's up to you to find the issue. Getting an alignment check is useless because it's obvious that you have a problem on that side. Compare your drivers spindle to your passenger and the same goes for the control arms. Like I stated in my first post, in order have that much toe out the inner tie rod would be broken and easy to find in an inspection. If they didn't find that then the control arm has moved/bent or the spindle is bent. If you look at the K-member you would be able to see if the washer has been moved on either the front or rear bolts.
It will need an alignment after those parts are replaced. If you are not going to trust the dealership's word then it's up to you to find the issue. Getting an alignment check is useless because it's obvious that you have a problem on that side. Compare your drivers spindle to your passenger and the same goes for the control arms. Like I stated in my first post, in order have that much toe out the inner tie rod would be broken and easy to find in an inspection. If they didn't find that then the control arm has moved/bent or the spindle is bent. If you look at the K-member you would be able to see if the washer has been moved on either the front or rear bolts.
02-01-2012, 07:47 PM
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Judging by your description and without actually seeing the car, I would say you have bent tie rods. I have never seen or heard of a knuckle getting damaged from a minor accident, they are sturdy parts, solid chunk of metal. It's possible that the impact from the accident forced the adjustment fasteners out of place and knocked the alignment way out. But more than likely, something is bent.
Those free alignment checks generally only apply to when you are buying a set of tires. If I was a manager, I wouldn't waist my mechanics time doing a free alignment check knowing that the owner has no intention of buying the actual service. Coming in for damaged steering/suspension parts, all they would do is try to sell you stuff before they would even touch the free alignment check.
It's hard to tell you what to replace without actually seeing it in person. But it should be fairly obvious what is damaged if you compare your good side to the side that is bent. Especially if you can visually see the tire pointing out. If you are up for it, just replace the parts yourself that the dealership recommended and have them align it. If you decided to have them replace the parts, than the free alignment check no longer applies, the actual alignment is now part of the service.
That also depends on if the rack assembly is mounted in front or behind the knuckle. If the rack is mounted in front of the knuckle, the tie rod being bent and shortening it would indeed move the tire inward. But if the rack is mounted behind the knuckle, being shorter in length would move the front of the tire outward, resulting in a toe-out condition. Such as what the OP seems to be experiencing. Although, I'm not familiar with the steering design of the f-body, so I'm not sure where they mounted the rack in relation to the knuckle.
Those free alignment checks generally only apply to when you are buying a set of tires. If I was a manager, I wouldn't waist my mechanics time doing a free alignment check knowing that the owner has no intention of buying the actual service. Coming in for damaged steering/suspension parts, all they would do is try to sell you stuff before they would even touch the free alignment check.
It's hard to tell you what to replace without actually seeing it in person. But it should be fairly obvious what is damaged if you compare your good side to the side that is bent. Especially if you can visually see the tire pointing out. If you are up for it, just replace the parts yourself that the dealership recommended and have them align it. If you decided to have them replace the parts, than the free alignment check no longer applies, the actual alignment is now part of the service.
That also depends on if the rack assembly is mounted in front or behind the knuckle. If the rack is mounted in front of the knuckle, the tie rod being bent and shortening it would indeed move the tire inward. But if the rack is mounted behind the knuckle, being shorter in length would move the front of the tire outward, resulting in a toe-out condition. Such as what the OP seems to be experiencing. Although, I'm not familiar with the steering design of the f-body, so I'm not sure where they mounted the rack in relation to the knuckle.
Last edited by Bjorn20; 02-01-2012 at 08:06 PM.
02-01-2012, 08:49 PM
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Judging by your description and without actually seeing the car, I would say you have bent tie rods. I have never seen or heard of a knuckle getting damaged from a minor accident, they are sturdy parts, solid chunk of metal. It's possible that the impact from the accident forced the adjustment fasteners out of place and knocked the alignment way out. But more than likely, something is bent.
Those free alignment checks generally only apply to when you are buying a set of tires. If I was a manager, I wouldn't waist my mechanics time doing a free alignment check knowing that the owner has no intention of buying the actual service. Coming in for damaged steering/suspension parts, all they would do is try to sell you stuff before they would even touch the free alignment check.
It's hard to tell you what to replace without actually seeing it in person. But it should be fairly obvious what is damaged if you compare your good side to the side that is bent. Especially if you can visually see the tire pointing out. If you are up for it, just replace the parts yourself that the dealership recommended and have them align it. If you decided to have them replace the parts, than the free alignment check no longer applies, the actual alignment is now part of the service.
That also depends on if the rack assembly is mounted in front or behind the knuckle. If the rack is mounted in front of the knuckle, the tie rod being bent and shortening it would indeed move the tire inward. But if the rack is mounted behind the knuckle, being shorter in length would move the front of the tire outward, resulting in a toe-out condition. Such as what the OP seems to be experiencing. Although, I'm not familiar with the steering design of the f-body, so I'm not sure where they mounted the rack in relation to the knuckle.
Those free alignment checks generally only apply to when you are buying a set of tires. If I was a manager, I wouldn't waist my mechanics time doing a free alignment check knowing that the owner has no intention of buying the actual service. Coming in for damaged steering/suspension parts, all they would do is try to sell you stuff before they would even touch the free alignment check.
It's hard to tell you what to replace without actually seeing it in person. But it should be fairly obvious what is damaged if you compare your good side to the side that is bent. Especially if you can visually see the tire pointing out. If you are up for it, just replace the parts yourself that the dealership recommended and have them align it. If you decided to have them replace the parts, than the free alignment check no longer applies, the actual alignment is now part of the service.
That also depends on if the rack assembly is mounted in front or behind the knuckle. If the rack is mounted in front of the knuckle, the tie rod being bent and shortening it would indeed move the tire inward. But if the rack is mounted behind the knuckle, being shorter in length would move the front of the tire outward, resulting in a toe-out condition. Such as what the OP seems to be experiencing. Although, I'm not familiar with the steering design of the f-body, so I'm not sure where they mounted the rack in relation to the knuckle.
02-02-2012, 06:43 AM
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anything could be twisted out of wack, without actually seeing the car it is hard to say. have you taken the car to a body shop, some thing could have bent the frame or moved the k member. do you see any kind of movement where it appears the bolt moved,it should be a fairly easy spot to see. next have you tried using something with a straight edge .
02-04-2012, 07:12 PM
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turned out that the steering knuckle was bent were it attaches to the tie rod.
heres the good knuckle:
heres the bad knuckle:
found something out that i didnt know.. car already had MOOG bushing on it!
so now im looking for a replacement knuckle in the classifieds.. anybody got one?
heres the good knuckle:
heres the bad knuckle:
found something out that i didnt know.. car already had MOOG bushing on it!
so now im looking for a replacement knuckle in the classifieds.. anybody got one?
02-04-2012, 08:11 PM
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I'm glad you found out what was wrong. I would post a "parts wanted" ad in the classifieds because a lot of people take their spindles off when swapping over to 3rd gen drag brakes.