slt200mph

iTrader: (42)

Would the manufacturer of that cam be Comp Cams? I've seen failures with less than 10,000 miles on their cams that last few years. Doesn't make any difference what oil you use. They have had quality control issues that are well documented. On the other hand I've got 260,000+ miles on a OEM short block with zero problems changing M1 oil at 5000 mile intervals running aftermarket cam with dual valve springs. Flat tappet lifters are the ones that need all that zinc roller lifters are bullet proof.

slt200mph

iTrader: (42)

Your in Indiana dude and I'm in Georgia I have not seen it in years down here. Doesn't make any difference. There is no shortage of good motor oil. I've put over 260,000 miles on a OEM short block. (452/418) With no oil consumption and changed M1 at 5,000 mile intervals.

LS6427

iTrader: (2)

Exactly. Synthetic oils are a waste of money. And running any oil for 4,000+ miles is what kills engines.

Over the past 11 or so years and knowing literally ~100 people with built stroker motors and aggressive head cam motors........not a single one of them that has used Synthetic makes it longer than the people who use cheap *** off the shelf oil. The jury is in.......synthetic is not as good as conventional.....it's just a marketing scam to make more money. And until I see some with a fully built stroker motor like my 427ci get anywhere near my 173,000, its pretty clear that conventional is better. Too many people over the years with bearing failures and other issues while using super duper special mystery magical synthetic oil at 40, 50, 60,000 miles on their built motors. Most also did their changes at 4,000-5,000 miles too......that's a BIG no-no.

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RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

Those are some very bold claims. Lots of factors to consider when it comes to engine longevity. I think it's misguided to assume that synthetic, when changed at the proper intervals using the proper grade for the application, would have caused engine failure more quickly than conventional.

My advice to anyone reading this thread is to do your own research. Lots of information about oil on sites like bobistheoilguy.com.

Awake455

Start with a quality oil and have it analyzed regularly. The engine will tell you what it likes and dislikes. Anything else is based on tradition, someone else's engine, marketing, or habit.

For example, in my boosted LS1, the oil analysis suggested Mobil 1 was totally inadequate. I've wound up with a 0W-30 Castrol and run it to 7,000ish miles. The chemical analysis shows no reason to change it sooner. In fact it suggests I run the oil longer but I get nervous.

Another example: In my (now sold) Silverado with the 8100, the analysis showed the conventional 5W-30s were breaking down from heat and showing a bit of bearing wear. The suggestion was made, based on what Blackstone has seen in the past on these engines, that I try a synthetic 5W-40 diesel oil. The results were much better, the oil tested well, and was good for 8,000-9,000 miles consistently.

In both these cases it was vehicles I beat on pretty hard (or towed with quite heavily). The analysis suggested I could have run the oils longer.

On the other hand, in a POS 96 Civic with 160K that I use as a commuter (150 miles per day for work), the analysis shows regular old Napa 5W-30 is still protecting it very well at 15,000 miles.

I say again, start with a quality oil, get it analyzed, and let your engine tell you what it wants.

ThatOneKid

Ok... I must be failing to see why location matters.

ThatOneKid

Where/ to whom would you send your oil?

dailydriver

Yes to the above!

IF there were problems with these super stroker motors (I personally would rather go with a shorter stroke than even stock, and a larger bore to gain displacement, despite the slightly softer low end torque it gives), then it was NOT, I repeat, NOT the "fault" of a great synthetic oil.
To mistakenly believe so is just 'old school', ancient engine builder (and I KNOW that they know VERY little about oil technology, unlike the tribologists on bobistheoilguy.com!!) logic.

HCI2000SS

iTrader: (2)

Per reccomendation of TMS (where I got my 370ci LQ9) I run Rotella 15w40

MonmouthCtyLS7

iTrader: (6)

Your going to get 40 billion opinions here, I usually go with the best priced synthetic.

1 FMF

iTrader: (1)

unless you are running a flat tappet cam with high valve spring pressure, there is no need to use a zinc additive or break-in oil for the cam. A roller cam does not require any special oil or additive and does not require a break-in.

as for oil viscosity choice, you choose viscosity based on ambient temperature and expected oil operating temperature. if you are in the north and cold starts happen below 50°F then you'll want to run a 5w oil. if your in a hot environment and expect running oil temps to exceed ~200° F especially in stop and go traffic where the motor will be idling hot below 800 rpm then you would want to choose a 15w40 or thicker oil.
choosing a synthetic is a waste of money because (a) there is no solid legal definition of synthetic oil and no guarantee of performance claims surrounding any brand of oil, and (b) for a car engine 95% of the time if you choose the right viscosity to begin with there is no need for a synthetic oil which may offer better cold starting flow or high temperature resistance. a synthetic does not let you run the oil for an extra xxx thousand miles to recoup purchase cost without the same amount of damage occurring that you would get with conventional oil, you still get blow by and wear particles building up over time. and claiming the additive pack in a synthetic is better than in a conventional is marketing bullshit and internet hype, there is no proof.

BWZ_2k2Z28

Whatever Advance Auto has on sale in 10w-30 SAE. Usually its Castrol. Last time I tried Pennzoil in the yellow bottle, 10w-30. Piston slap was noticeably louder with pennzoil then with castrol. Any connection? Hell if I know, just my experience.

There's gonna be a million people tell you to get a certain oil that'll run you $40+ each oil change. Then there's gonna be another million saying to buy this particular oil and add zinc and NOS and all kinds of other ****(sarcasm for those who don't know it). Then theres gonna be people like me, who tell you to use the correct weight oil, filter and change it every 3000 miles. If this isn't an all out performance purpose engine than you can get the generic brand oil at walmart if you want. None of these engines have ever failed because of a particular brand of oil and they never will.

LS6427

iTrader: (2)

Not that bold, they are facts. I'm yet to meet anyone with a big stroker motor that has lasted more than 40,000-50,000 miles without all kinds of noises, oil burning, compression loss, etc......Most people pull them out and rebuild them.

They ALL use synthetic oils. I don't understand why people use it anymore. There is no proof that synthetics do anything better in the real world than conventional.......but there's hundreds and thousands of people out there with big stroker motors having to rebuild them WAY before the 100,000 mile mark. My 427ci was a beast till a rod broke at 173,000. Bearings were fine, a rod just finally failed. All conventional oil from day one. And 20w50 weight which MOST people say is terrible to use for an LSx engine. People just have no clue......they listen to marketing and friends that synthetic oil is magical.......so they go waste their money on it.

I guess we'll see how long my 390ci lasts. I'm betting way way past 150,000. Unless of course the TT kit takes it out........but that will be a fun way to go.

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LS6427

iTrader: (2)

Another person who gets it.

Clean oil is the ONLY thing we can do to make an engine last a long time. Nothing else matters. Every oil out there will work the same.......it just has to stay as clean as possible.

With my new 390ci I'm doing 3,000 mile changes and filter changes every 1,500 miles. Plus an oil filter magnet. When I got is new 390ci on the road I did an oil change after its first day of dyno tuning. Then at 50, 150, 300, 400 and 500 miles. The oil filter magnet was used always and still is on my oil filter. We cut the oil filter open with a band saw for the 400 mile change......there was a **** ton of metal shavings stuck to the inside of the oil filter can. Those things are awesome for catching tiny shavings.

4,000-5,000 mile changes.......that's just crazy to me.

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RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

Perhaps "facts" doesn't have a universal definition.

I haven't seen anything that proves conventional oils are superior to synthetics. That was the blanket statement you made, but there is nothing solid to back it up.

This is not scientific proof that synthetics are inferior to conventional oil. This only proves that you took exceptional care of your engine, and that it was well built to begin with.

Imagine for a moment that you did everything the same, but used a high quality synthetic oil instead. Based on your statement, you believe that your engine would have failed sooner than it did with the conventional oil. I see no evidence that this is a fact. Other peoples' engines cannot serve as a direct comparasion since there are several variables besides just the oil they used.

There are certain cases where it's definitely not this simple. As mentioned above, things like zinc/phosphorus content do in fact matter in the context of a flat tappet engine, especially one with an aggressive cam profile. Not really a concern for the LSx crowd though.

There are also plenty of UOAs which have shown improvements, with the same exact engine, by simply switcing oils. So to say that they are all exactly equal, in any given application, isn't really accurate.

However, I do agree with the fact that proper change interval for the application is far more important than the brand of oil that you choose.

BWZ_2k2Z28

I completely agree with you RPM. Synthetics are absolutely not inferior to conventional oils. There are PLENTY of advantages to synthetic oil like more eco friendly, longer intervals between oil changes, and many more than my small brain can think of. BUT ARE THEY NECESSARY FOR A DD OR STREET/STRIP APPLICATION? NO THEY ARE NOT. Do most synthetics "protect" better than conventionals? YES. But the conventionals do a more than fine job with common street car applications. If I was spending more than half my time at 5000+ RPMs then I would definitely be using an all out maximum protecting synthetic oil. But majority of us are not doing that. Therefore, just get whats on sale and CHANGE IT AT THE CORRECT INTERVALS.

Dan

iTrader: (1)

I use Pennzoil Platinum Synthetic. I thought that was the "hot" oil to run around here for a while?? Not good anymore?

LS6427

iTrader: (2)

This is an LSx forum, we are talking about LSx engines, whether bone stock-mildly modded-heavily modded. (And not talking about max effort 800 HP race gas, solid roller, on the edge of explosion full race built engines)

Doesn't matter what kind of LSx engine........the #1 thing we can do is to have clean oil inside of it for as much time as possible.

I am 100% positive that if I had used synthetic oil and done the ridiculous 4,000-5,000 mile oil changes that dozens and dozens of people I know through the years with LSx engines have done.......there is absolutely no way my engine would have lasted as long as it did. It would have lasted as long as all their identical engines would have lasted....from builders such as LPE, Katech, TSP, all the known builders..........in the range of 40,000-60,000, maybe someone has logged more, not positive.
Actually one other guy with a Vette had a iron 421ci built by a local guy that has over 100,000 and has been spraying it with a 300 shot for years now.....but he uses conventional oil too.

That's some pretty good statistical data since 1998 when we all started buying our LSx cars. Talking upwards of 100 people I know through the years.

How is that not good data.........to know that synthetic oil simply does not protect an LSx engine as good as conventional. Everyone I know that uses synthetic has all kinds of troubles......all kinds. Then their engine dies......

It's the same ole story around here every time someone posts about their engine letting go or dying.......they are always synthetic oil users.

.....And I didn't take care of my engine in any spectacular way. Oil filter and oil changes every 3,000 miles. That's it. Maybe did 2 serpentine belt changes. 1 alternator. 1 starter. Air filters and fuel filters.
That's actually not even close to most car fanatics out there. What I did was the minimum necessary for car care.

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BWZ_2k2Z28

Idk how true this is but every time I talk to my dad about these engines and oil, he goes on this rant saying that the ls1's in the camaros/TAs were not designed for synthetic oil. He swears up and down by it. He claims the seals aren't designed for synthetic and thats a lot of the reason that these engines "eat" a quart or so between oil changes. Its hard to argue with him cuz he was a chevy dealership mechanic for like 32 years I think it was. Then to solidify his argument we went in to autozone and asked the cashier to look up what oil in my 2002 z28, he said 5w-30 conventional. Asked the same cashier to look up the oil for a 2000 corvette, he' said 5w-30 synthetic. Idk why this is but that is a real life experience. From that day on I used conventional and haven't used a drop of oil since, almost a year now.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

The arguement against this is quite simple actually - synthetic was the factory fill for every LS1 engine put into Corvettes. In fact, synthetic was the factory fill for Corvette engines going all the way back to the Gen II LT1 in 1992.

There is no design difference between the Corvette and F-body LS1s, so what's OK or good for one is OK or good for both.

Therefore, there is no merit to his claim that GM didn't "design" these engines for such an oil.