Cam install questions. - LS1TECH



General Maintenance & Repairs Leaks | Squeaks | Clunks | Rattles | Grinds

Cam install questions.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 02-28-2017, 09:57 PM   #1
Staging Lane
Thread Starter
 
BamaBird22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Alabama
Posts: 82
Default Cam install questions.

I'm just now getting into the market for a cam and still have a few unanswered questions after months of research.

Before I get started I wanna let you all know that this is a v6 car. Can't really find many write ups on cam swapping v6s just people saying "yea I've done it"

1. My car has 140,000+ miles on it. I know cam swapping is bad for high mileage cars because of the delicate balance it's created but I'm planning on upgrading the valve train completely. Is it still a no no to upgrade a high mileage car no matter what you do?

2. Can I remove/install old and new cam without removing or dropping the engine? Never got a clear answer on that for v6 firebird applications.

3. What is really better LS1/LS6 90# valve springs or Comp 105# valve springs?

I just wanna add some pep to my dd that's all, not trying to build a v6 race car. Lol

I think those are the only 3 major questions I had. I know this is mainly a v8 forum but I seem to get more detailed educated answers here, no here say stuff. Or opinions. Thanks guys.
BamaBird22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2017, 08:37 AM   #2
TECH Fanatic
 
jaxcam02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Jacksonville, Fl
Posts: 1,224
Default

I'm assuming you have all the other bolt ons for it? Intake, Headers etc.?
jaxcam02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2017, 11:32 AM   #3
12 Second Club
iTrader: (68)
 
ICRAZY6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Lacon, IL
Posts: 1,032
Default

There is no problem with upgrading components on a car with 140k miles. It's best to do the supporting mods to alleviate the additions stress that will be put on the engine.

When replacing a camshaft you should also replace lifters, springs, and pushrods at the same time.

You can remove the cam without pulling/dropping the engine. I find it easiest to drain and pull the radiator. Then pull the A/C condenser up and out of the way to give you room to pull the cam all the way out. Reverse for the install.

As far as what springs you should you should consult who ever is manufacturing your cam and see what they recommend for your lift.

Lastly, you should get a tune.
ICRAZY6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2017, 05:02 PM   #4
Staging Lane
Thread Starter
 
BamaBird22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Alabama
Posts: 82
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaxcam02
I'm assuming you have all the other bolt ons for it? Intake, Headers etc.?
I will be purchasing everything and installing everything at once so I can do one tune for everything and be done. Cam, springs, lifters, pushrods, retainers, double timing chain, intake, headers. Not to mention the entire cooling system has been replaced very very recently so I should have nothing to worry about correct?
BamaBird22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2017, 05:03 PM   #5
Staging Lane
Thread Starter
 
BamaBird22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Alabama
Posts: 82
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ICRAZY6
There is no problem with upgrading components on a car with 140k miles. It's best to do the supporting mods to alleviate the additions stress that will be put on the engine.

When replacing a camshaft you should also replace lifters, springs, and pushrods at the same time.

You can remove the cam without pulling/dropping the engine. I find it easiest to drain and pull the radiator. Then pull the A/C condenser up and out of the way to give you room to pull the cam all the way out. Reverse for the install.

As far as what springs you should you should consult who ever is manufacturing your cam and see what they recommend for your lift.

Lastly, you should get a tune.
It will be the gt2 cam and they say comp 105# and LS6 90# and there's always a debate on which is better and valve float and all that
BamaBird22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2017, 05:27 PM   #6
Staging Lane
Thread Starter
 
BamaBird22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Alabama
Posts: 82
Default

Btw. Are arp head studs necessary? Or just a safe precaution type of thing
BamaBird22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2017, 08:02 AM   #7
TECH Addict
iTrader: (33)
 
mjs1012's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Milford, CT
Posts: 2,488
Default

For a basic cam only car I don't see the need for ARP studs, normal TTY bolts will be fine.
mjs1012 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2017, 08:45 PM   #8
Staging Lane
Thread Starter
 
BamaBird22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Alabama
Posts: 82
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjs1012
For a basic cam only car I don't see the need for ARP studs, normal TTY bolts will be fine.
Alright thanks man. I was going to do it because I am replacing the head gaskets while I'm in there and just figured it a given but I could just get new head bolts or is THAT even necessary? The old ones should work fine? Even after a port and polish?
BamaBird22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2017, 09:02 PM   #9
Launching!
iTrader: (4)
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 271
Default

You should never reuse TTY bolts. Do yourself a favor and get new bolts. As said above.. OEM will be fine. No need for ARP gold in your build.
RelentleZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2017, 09:08 PM   #10
TECH Resident
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 832
Default

Did you replace that muffler with a rear mount turbo yet?
Need4Camaro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2017, 03:52 PM   #11
Staging Lane
Thread Starter
 
BamaBird22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Alabama
Posts: 82
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Need4Camaro
Did you replace that muffler with a rear mount turbo yet?
As soon as you told me I bought one and threw it on lol. Nah, in the case of my mufflers I think as bad as the cooling system was it was leaking into my exhaust somehow and rusting it out. Might have bad head-gaskets but I'm not worried about seeing that they are getting replaced soon
BamaBird22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2017, 05:12 PM   #12
TECH Resident
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 832
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BamaBird22 View Post
As soon as you told me I bought one and threw it on lol. Nah, in the case of my mufflers I think as bad as the cooling system was it was leaking into my exhaust somehow and rusting it out. Might have bad head-gaskets but I'm not worried about seeing that they are getting replaced soon
If you have a gasket leaking coolant, rust in the cylendars could mean machine work necessary when you pull the heads.
Need4Camaro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2017, 05:36 PM   #13
Staging Lane
Thread Starter
 
BamaBird22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Alabama
Posts: 82
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Need4Camaro
If you have a gasket leaking coolant, rust in the cylendars could mean machine work necessary when you pull the heads.
Yea I have a shop where I live and a few of my buddies work there so it shouldn't be a problem I'm gonna machine them anyways to really let that cam do it's job.
BamaBird22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2017, 09:04 AM   #14
Staging Lane
Thread Starter
 
BamaBird22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Alabama
Posts: 82
Default

Tell me what I need and can absolutely do without. Here's my parts list

Gt2 cam
LS1/LS6 springs
Doible roller Timing chain
Comp OE-850 lifters
Comp Hi-tech pushrods
Can install gasket set
Pocket ported heads
S-10 stall
Pacesetter midtubes
BamaBird22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2017, 10:26 AM   #15
TECH Resident
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 832
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BamaBird22 View Post
Tell me what I need and can absolutely do without. Here's my parts list

Gt2 cam
LS1/LS6 springs
Doible roller Timing chain
Comp OE-850 lifters
Comp Hi-tech pushrods
Can install gasket set
Pocket ported heads
S-10 stall
Pacesetter midtubes
You could "get away" without the ported heads, stall, and headers, of course all this stuff you mentioned goes hand in hand and you won't receive the most optimum benefit without it. The other stuff would sacrifice too much reliability to go without, I wouldn't cut corners on the timing chain, lifters, and pushrods when you have a chance to change them... Also you will need a transmission cooler if you get a stall converter. What kind of gears in the rear axel? you may wanna change those too.. Anything between 3.42 and 3.73's seems to work best. What are your goals btw and how many miles on the motor?

I had a 3.8 V6 and I contemplated for a long time about going forced induction but eventually decided against it and attempted LS1 swapping (which failed) because I wanted reliability and street-ability... Have you considered LS swapping or upgrading to a V8? Reason I ask is, after you add alittle pep to this car, you're going to want more..but you will find this engine's limits fairly quickly if you keep it NA, turbo is a different story.
Need4Camaro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2017, 07:47 PM   #16
Staging Lane
Thread Starter
 
BamaBird22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Alabama
Posts: 82
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Need4Camaro
You could "get away" without the ported heads, stall, and headers, of course all this stuff you mentioned goes hand in hand and you won't receive the most optimum benefit without it. The other stuff would sacrifice too much reliability to go without, I wouldn't cut corners on the timing chain, lifters, and pushrods when you have a chance to change them... Also you will need a transmission cooler if you get a stall converter. What kind of gears in the rear axel? you may wanna change those too.. Anything between 3.42 and 3.73's seems to work best. What are your goals btw and how many miles on the motor?

I had a 3.8 V6 and I contemplated for a long time about going forced induction but eventually decided against it and attempted LS1 swapping (which failed) because I wanted reliability and street-ability... Have you considered LS swapping or upgrading to a V8? Reason I ask is, after you add alittle pep to this car, you're going to want more..but you will find this engine's limits fairly quickly if you keep it NA, turbo is a different story.
Not sure what gears. I know the driver side door has the codes on it but I never could figure that out. I was planing on swapping the rear with 4.10 from an LS1 anyways. I have also considered LS swapping but I have several reason as to why not. Mpgs, it being a vert (I'd rather have a t-top LS) and I'm probably going to get an LS1 in a few years anyways. I just wanted something that had some power but could still get me to work and back without half a paycheck in gas lol. As far as the gears go I think they are 3.73. Mileage is 145000
BamaBird22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2017, 09:16 AM   #17
TECH Resident
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 832
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BamaBird22 View Post
Not sure what gears. I know the driver side door has the codes on it but I never could figure that out. I was planing on swapping the rear with 4.10 from an LS1 anyways. I have also considered LS swapping but I have several reason as to why not. Mpgs, it being a vert (I'd rather have a t-top LS) and I'm probably going to get an LS1 in a few years anyways. I just wanted something that had some power but could still get me to work and back without half a paycheck in gas lol. As far as the gears go I think they are 3.73. Mileage is 145000
I wasn't aware of any LS1's that came factory with 4.08's and I "THINK" the tallest gears any factory 4th gen F-Body came with are 3.42's on the Y87 V6 models. The manuals got 3.23's. None of the LS1's got anything taller than 3.23's if I'm not mistaken. I could be wrong though.

If you change to 4.10's, even with the V6 you can kiss mileage good bye, especially if you have heads and cam and stall converters really eat fuel. Your V6 won't be the same V6 after you do this, it will technically be a performance car, not built for economy but power. Also you won't beable to use regular unleaded / 87 octane anymore, you'll need premium and your mileage will likely be lower than a stock LS1 but your quarter mile times will be on par with an LT1 (this is the main reason I decided against going N/A on my V6 and turbo was the only option)... If you turbo, you can retain most of your fuel mileage as long as you get a good tune and even take out stock LS1's, you won't need the tall 4.10's either so you save fuel mileage...you'll still need premium though.

So what Im saying is, after you change all this...it won't be an economy car anymore. Your mileage will be on par if not even less than a stock LS1. My stock LS1 does about 19 MPG city and 24 MPG highway..which..for what it is, isn't horrible.. My former 01 Z28 with 2.73 gears could get up to 30 MPG on the interstate.

Have you looked into the newer 6th Gen V6's? They're no slouches and they're absolutely incredibly efficient with fuel. I have literally gotten up to 40 MPG on the highway in one.

Not trying to dog your plans don't get me wrong, the 3.8 is an incredible little motor, just wanna make sure you know what you're getting into might not leave you as pleased in the overall long run while you still have a chance to make changes.
Need4Camaro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2017, 06:09 PM   #18
Staging Lane
Thread Starter
 
BamaBird22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Alabama
Posts: 82
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Need4Camaro
I wasn't aware of any LS1's that came factory with 4.08's and I "THINK" the tallest gears any factory 4th gen F-Body came with are 3.42's on the Y87 V6 models. The manuals got 3.23's. None of the LS1's got anything taller than 3.23's if I'm not mistaken. I could be wrong though.

If you change to 4.10's, even with the V6 you can kiss mileage good bye, especially if you have heads and cam and stall converters really eat fuel. Your V6 won't be the same V6 after you do this, it will technically be a performance car, not built for economy but power. Also you won't beable to use regular unleaded / 87 octane anymore, you'll need premium and your mileage will likely be lower than a stock LS1 but your quarter mile times will be on par with an LT1 (this is the main reason I decided against going N/A on my V6 and turbo was the only option)... If you turbo, you can retain most of your fuel mileage as long as you get a good tune and even take out stock LS1's, you won't need the tall 4.10's either so you save fuel mileage...you'll still need premium though.

So what Im saying is, after you change all this...it won't be an economy car anymore. Your mileage will be on par if not even less than a stock LS1. My stock LS1 does about 19 MPG city and 24 MPG highway..which..for what it is, isn't horrible.. My former 01 Z28 with 2.73 gears could get up to 30 MPG on the interstate.

Have you looked into the newer 6th Gen V6's? They're no slouches and they're absolutely incredibly efficient with fuel. I have literally gotten up to 40 MPG on the highway in one.

Not trying to dog your plans don't get me wrong, the 3.8 is an incredible little motor, just wanna make sure you know what you're getting into might not leave you as pleased in the overall long run while you still have a chance to make changes.
Well. Not really sure what gears would be best with my setup but I hear most say they swapped with 4.10. Long story short. I live in the country on a dirt road that gets pretty sandy and deep sometimes. It already bothers me driving my v6 up and down it everyday, it would probably kill me to drive an ls1 up and down it. There are lots of car meets where I live and going to one with a stock v6 isn't pleasing. I was just going to add some power to it and "dress up" the engine and engine bay so when I pop the hood and turn the car on it doesn't look like bare unpolished aluminum all over the place and sound even worse than it looks lol. Don't get me wrong it doesn't sound bad, but when there's a 350z v6 that sounds like a diesel next to you it doesn't sound as good anymore haha. I plan on keeping the car. I really benefit nothing from ever selling it. So I just decided to add some power to it while I have it. Plus that cam just sounds great lol
BamaBird22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Valve spring replacement with trunnion upgrade JPCTS-V04 Cadillac CTS-V 2004-2007 (Gen I) 18 02-04-2017 04:50 PM
For those who want big nasty cams with lots of lift, etc... J-Rod Advanced Engineering Tech 66 03-06-2016 09:14 PM
Is trunion upgrade and ls7 lifters absolutely necessary with cam swap? Fullblast Generation III Internal Engine 15 11-18-2015 08:10 AM
Need help in Pittsburgh. Best trade of all time(bluit lt1 Camaro for a cr250) Nick_stag LT1-LT4 Modifications 3 08-14-2015 12:34 PM
Cam/Valve Spring Recommendations for LS1 w/243 Heads CORYSTA Generation III Internal Engine 67 12-06-2014 03:22 PM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:56 AM.


 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
What's your question?
Send