GM designer for LT1=fucking moron
11-21-2006, 08:51 AM
#41
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Originally Posted by Tainted
oh gee where should me and my dad start?
you cant see ****
cant get to ****
no easy access to a damn thing
It took us 6 HOURS to change 2 plus. 2 for 6 hours!!!!!
i got the first 3 on the drivers side done the other day. we got the back one and the front one on the passenger side done today. we took the alternarter off and bent the A.I.R tube for better acess and was still a ******* *****. Hell he even broke it trying tog et that bitch back in so now we gotta go buy another plug! those last 3 plugs, 4 6 and 8 i got no idea how im gonna ******* get them. whoever said get them from the bottom is a ******* crackhead or has some LT headers because we cant even see the wires much less get a hand through that tangled mess of **** they called a y pipe
you cant see ****
cant get to ****
no easy access to a damn thing
It took us 6 HOURS to change 2 plus. 2 for 6 hours!!!!!
i got the first 3 on the drivers side done the other day. we got the back one and the front one on the passenger side done today. we took the alternarter off and bent the A.I.R tube for better acess and was still a ******* *****. Hell he even broke it trying tog et that bitch back in so now we gotta go buy another plug! those last 3 plugs, 4 6 and 8 i got no idea how im gonna ******* get them. whoever said get them from the bottom is a ******* crackhead or has some LT headers because we cant even see the wires much less get a hand through that tangled mess of **** they called a y pipe
Yeah, him and the guy that designed the heater core location on a F-150 are probably brothers. Rip the whole f***ing dash out just to get to the damn thing. ALl of this just to replace a cheap part. Sorry for venting but I just had to replace mine at 145K for $600.
11-21-2006, 09:17 AM
#42
Originally Posted by alamantia
The ford Astro had a problem in its early years, three of the 6 spark plugs has 9/16" clearance between them and the fire wall, the plugs were 2-1/2" long, that wasnt realized until the car was in production, so a tune up consisted of dropping the cradle and removing the engine and transmission to change three plugs. Working on cars is exactly what it is, work, it sucks, stop your bitching, get an education and dont be a mechanic
11-21-2006, 10:46 AM
#43
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What is a "flaming him"?
If that is an attempt to mock my statement you are entitled to your opinion of course. Im was meerly saying that there will always be compramises in engineering, especially if marketing gives the engineers a short time line and a bunch of restrictions on a design. Which i can bet you is what happened. I think the GM engineers were aware of this problem, had a meeting to see if redesigning, i dont know, the entire front end of the car was worth the trouble if you could just make a socket to get around this problem. Im an engineer, i design medical instruments, you wouldnt believe what sometimes has to get patched up, over looked or disregarded to make a deadline. So now we have car fanatics writing in and bitching out a plug swap where he could have asked before hand to find out there is a socket which would have made his life a hell of alot easier. i love my car but i have lost the ambition i once had when i was younger to work on it, i work on my race car which the nose is removable and I can access the plugs, why, cause I hate working on street cars, it sucks, its work man. So now we have people using the wrong tools and writing long posts bitching out the engineers of a company when it may or may not have been their fault in the first place, that makes sence. So some things are tough to work on huh? Changing plugs sucks, huh, life sucks get a helmet, buy the right tools and stop crying on-line. I didnt want to have to say that because I do agree, things suck, there are compramises, you want a sleek low to the ground front end with huge shock toweres and easy plug access, why dont you just ask for world peace while your at it, maybe the GM engineers can work on that too. Im not starting fights Im just saying there were probably considerations that whent into this problem and simply bitching people you dont know out is stupid. As for the Ford thing, its not like there was a tool for that, those plugs were jamed in there, I was just trying to say that teh Camaro isnt as bad as other cars and yes there were f ups like that but the F body plugs arent that bad compaired to many other cars I used to work on let alone what must be on some compacts today.
Increase the Peace!
If that is an attempt to mock my statement you are entitled to your opinion of course. Im was meerly saying that there will always be compramises in engineering, especially if marketing gives the engineers a short time line and a bunch of restrictions on a design. Which i can bet you is what happened. I think the GM engineers were aware of this problem, had a meeting to see if redesigning, i dont know, the entire front end of the car was worth the trouble if you could just make a socket to get around this problem. Im an engineer, i design medical instruments, you wouldnt believe what sometimes has to get patched up, over looked or disregarded to make a deadline. So now we have car fanatics writing in and bitching out a plug swap where he could have asked before hand to find out there is a socket which would have made his life a hell of alot easier. i love my car but i have lost the ambition i once had when i was younger to work on it, i work on my race car which the nose is removable and I can access the plugs, why, cause I hate working on street cars, it sucks, its work man. So now we have people using the wrong tools and writing long posts bitching out the engineers of a company when it may or may not have been their fault in the first place, that makes sence. So some things are tough to work on huh? Changing plugs sucks, huh, life sucks get a helmet, buy the right tools and stop crying on-line. I didnt want to have to say that because I do agree, things suck, there are compramises, you want a sleek low to the ground front end with huge shock toweres and easy plug access, why dont you just ask for world peace while your at it, maybe the GM engineers can work on that too. Im not starting fights Im just saying there were probably considerations that whent into this problem and simply bitching people you dont know out is stupid. As for the Ford thing, its not like there was a tool for that, those plugs were jamed in there, I was just trying to say that teh Camaro isnt as bad as other cars and yes there were f ups like that but the F body plugs arent that bad compaired to many other cars I used to work on let alone what must be on some compacts today.
Increase the Peace!
Last edited by alamantia; 11-21-2006 at 11:22 AM.
11-21-2006, 11:52 AM
#44
I would like join Alamantia on this one.
People don't realise you don't have control over everything. You have control over one little area. That's it. Every other part of the car, heh, might as well not even worry about it.
Funny how people on here complain about the guys that went through years of school as ******* idiots and here they are doing what now?
People don't realise you don't have control over everything. You have control over one little area. That's it. Every other part of the car, heh, might as well not even worry about it.
Funny how people on here complain about the guys that went through years of school as ******* idiots and here they are doing what now?
11-21-2006, 11:58 AM
#45
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Serioulsy, get the right tool and its fine, its like trying to open a can of tuna with a sledge hammer instead of a can opener and bitching the tuna company out for having a tough can. Whatever, he may have not realized there was indeed a tool but research your grip before you bitch people out you dont know. Wheteva, alls good. i still hate Rice
11-21-2006, 04:16 PM
#46
I didnt want to spend 20 bucks and wait days for the part to get in. my car wouldnt even start because the plugs were just that bad. I realize soemtimes they cant help it but either way, thats a hard *** job and should ahve been considered before they built that kinda ****.
11-21-2006, 05:33 PM
#49
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U can have mine if i still have it, PM me your address and I'll look for it this weekend, I may have sold it with the car though.... I cant remember, i'll let you know if I find it
11-21-2006, 05:38 PM
#50
Originally Posted by alamantia
U can have mine if i still have it, PM me your address and I'll look for it this weekend, I may have sold it with the car though.... I cant remember, i'll let you know if I find it
11-21-2006, 05:59 PM
#51
If a job requires a special application specific tool, it was poorly designed. If you're an engineer on a vehicle, regardless of how limited you may be, and an application specific tool is needed to service a system that you designed, you failed. The engineering that went into designing that tool is compensating for the lack of engineering of the specific system in the first place. Re-engineering a product in the field is an annoyance, especially so when the modifications necessary are quite simple and either free or extremely inexpensive. But hey, if I were an engineer and screwed something up, maybe I would hide behind a statement like those made from alamantia, that there was a lack of proper tooling...
Tainted: What the hell is a Camazro?
11-21-2006, 08:40 PM
#54
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Yes I am an engineer and im sorry to say a lot of the things you use in every day life aside from your car were built with defects, revisions and engineering with trial and error, its called testing, sometimes not every thing works out perfictly but its fine to be sold. If your mentality of not having to make job specific tools applied we would only have one tool to do everything, every thing that ever had to be built or worked on requires a tool of some sort. Not too long ago we had cars with 400hp and more with a carburator and distribitor, now we use pcm's now for me to adjust the timing on my car I need a friggin tuner for $400 or more if I have to keep sending it out, a tuner is a tool we had to make for an engineering advancement, nobody seems to bitch about things like that, I thing paying that kind of money to advance my timing is more of a bitch than changing a couple of plugs. Anyway, im tired of this, everyone has their own opinions an if you think about it, no ones every right in an opinionated debate, including my views, I have just worked in engineering for the last 10 years and I see how things get acomplished why they do and its always easy to critisize in hind sight, i like my field though, im still learning every day.
I still hate Rice,
Anyway
I use a regular shortie plug socket you can pick up at any auto parts store for like $4.99. Snap on, S&K, Mac have them too but they are kind pricy for me who only used it once every few years. I used it on my 95 LT1 and my fathers Sea Ray with run silent, i dont know if you know about boats but some use a "run silent" exaust, there are diverters on the exaust manafolds which operate from a solonoid much like a electric cut out on a LS1. It would divert through the out drive for silent and thru open headers out the back of the boat, So if didnt want to **** off the whole lake comunity on your 6am fishing trip you could run the exaust through the out dive, great idea but the friggin solonoids were right in the way of the plugs.
I still hate Rice,
Anyway
I use a regular shortie plug socket you can pick up at any auto parts store for like $4.99. Snap on, S&K, Mac have them too but they are kind pricy for me who only used it once every few years. I used it on my 95 LT1 and my fathers Sea Ray with run silent, i dont know if you know about boats but some use a "run silent" exaust, there are diverters on the exaust manafolds which operate from a solonoid much like a electric cut out on a LS1. It would divert through the out drive for silent and thru open headers out the back of the boat, So if didnt want to **** off the whole lake comunity on your 6am fishing trip you could run the exaust through the out dive, great idea but the friggin solonoids were right in the way of the plugs.
Last edited by alamantia; 11-22-2006 at 07:08 AM.
11-21-2006, 09:02 PM
#55
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Originally Posted by alamantia
Im an engineer and although I do not design cars I can tell you that there will always be a clash between marketing and engineering. In other words, marketing tells engineers what to design around wether they like it or not. In the automotive industry there are different teams of engineers working together on a common goal by a certin deadline, so the engineering team for the body and the engineering team for the engine may have some designs that over lap, Not to mention tooling of existing parts. Its not economical to redesign an engine to fit in one car. I had an LT1 in my 95, the oil pressure sender goes in the back of the manifold under the windshield cowl. You cant even find that sucker let alone change it. The 350 has been made for 30 years, do you think they are going to scrap their stock of engines and re-tool to make camaro owners happy. The ford Astro had a problem in its early years, three of the 6 spark plugs has 9/16" clearance between them and the fire wall, the plugs were 2-1/2" long, that wasnt realized until the car was in production, so a tune up consisted of dropping the cradle and removing the engine and transmission to change three plugs. Working on cars is exactly what it is, work, it sucks, stop your bitching, get an education and dont be a mechanic
Love this post.
11-25-2006, 05:51 PM
#56
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It's not really that bad . I just changed mine in the formula tonight, and the only one that's any kind of bad is the front on the passenger side, and that's just because you have to pull the alternator. The first time was a pain, the factory plugs were more or less frozen in place, but it gets better as you go. Tonight I got the first seven changed in about 20/30 minutes, then took a break before the front one on the pass side. I do them all from the top except for the rear driver's side plug. It's accessible from the top but so much easier from the bottom.
. I just changed mine in the formula tonight, and the only one that's any kind of bad is the front on the passenger side, and that's just because you have to pull the alternator. The first time was a pain, the factory plugs were more or less frozen in place, but it gets better as you go. Tonight I got the first seven changed in about 20/30 minutes, then took a break before the front one on the pass side. I do them all from the top except for the rear driver's side plug. It's accessible from the top but so much easier from the bottom.
11-25-2006, 09:08 PM
#57
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At least I can see the plugs on my LT1. I couldn't on my TPI L98. I had my friend do most or 1/2 of them, I can't remember. You could always cut the inner fender out 
11-25-2006, 09:30 PM
#58
Yeah its not that bad at all....I wouldn't bitch about it b/c I'd be waisting my time..there not easy and thats the way it is...I'v done 10 times harder auto stuff
I think this thread rocks
I think this thread rocks
11-25-2006, 09:31 PM
#59
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Oh and I think it's some year of Neon, or some dodge, that you need to upbolt the motor mount and tilt the motor forward to get the plugs done. That, or it's the back plugs of a V6, but I kinda think it's I4.
11-26-2006, 10:25 AM
#60
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**** all i used was a short socket and a few drop wrenches and i was done in about 2 hours...Number 1 was a bitch for me because of my shorties, but it got done. wires are another story though.