This is also popular urban mythology, derrived to explain the poor quality of the motors that came with the car. As you have discovered, the reality is that the new modern motors (even the ones made in China) are much better than the OEM version that came out of the GM parts bin. I did some part cross-referencing and found that the original motors on our cars were first installed on GM cars in the late 1960's. That's not all that shocking considering other assemblies on the car are in the same boat. (For example the steering column has the same 1960's heritage with only a few additions over the years for the air bag, a wire here-and-there for the VATS key cylinder, etc.) The OEM motor performance is not surprising considering that heritage and people have gone off looking for wild alternative theories for why the motors fail in the context of 2020's vehicles; let alone 1990's vehicles. The truth is that the original parts had poor lubrication, poor dust shielding, and all those other things that have made rotating equipment more reliable in the past 50-60 years! (The "new" motor designs we have been getting from parts stores over the past 15 years seem to be addressing some of these shortcomings.)

When you run the engine, the noise in the door will seem less because the ambient noise from the engine is much more.

The motors and the window circuitry also don't have any voltage regulation. When the engine is running, they will see a slightly higher voltage (like everything else in the car). ...However, because the voltage is not regulated, the motors will run a litttle faster and stronger when the engine is running and they are getting 14V vs. 12.5-ishV at rest. (I think this is where the myth came from. There are also companies selling products that play on this myth and claim to boost performance by providing direct, relayed connections to the battery. It's all nonsense and there's no engineering or scientific reason why the voltage difference would harm the motor, particularly when the voltage range is all within spec.)

If you feel a shudder, I think that may indicate that your window tracks are a bit dry. If you get a tube of that Sil-Glyde, scoop out any old grease and liberally apply some new - I expect the mechanism should feel smoother for you.

 

You're da man! I truly appreciate all the detailed and informative responses regarding this issue you've provided. It gives me a sense of relief knowing that I am doing everything right with this repair, and everything is normal, instead of having to worry about what I broke or if the new motors are defective out of the box due to the noise they make.

I will try that sil-glyde and see if that helps a bit with the shudder/noise.

Thank you again - much appreciated!!

 

Yes he is! wssix99 always offers excellent words of automotive wisdom, with a healthy and fun dose of anatomical perversion. The end result is always helpful AND entertaining!

And Sil-glyde is a great product and another good recommendation from wssix99. I also use this same product to lubricate contact points on drum brake assemblies, so it's a durable product.

On a side note, it's interesting that you're having this issue on such a low mile car that's always been garage kept (suggesting less dirt/debris getting into the door). My '98 Z28 fits the same category - always inside, never any rain/dirt, hasn't even seen a garden hose since 2005; currently at 18k miles, the original window motors are still super fast and there is no shudder during their operation. Yours is certainly not the first low mile car that's had a window motor fail, but I just wonder if there is a common denominator with these low mileage failures (like if GM was using more than one supplier for these motors at certain points). I bought my '00 WS6 brand new, and its window motors were always much slower than my '98s right from the start.

In any event, I do also remember a slight shudder that was visible on my '02 Z28 after I replaced the motor on that one. I don't recall if the factory motor did this, but after the swap I was more closely examining its operation. I should have gone back and lubed the track, but never did. Perhaps that would have helped. But I drove the car for several years that way (as a regular driver, so the window was operated often and the car always sat outside) and it was never an issue.

 

I wouldn't know what anatomical perversion is but I'm sure that, with your impecible reputation for high quality maintenance, your bulge is every bit the equal of @ARSENAL670.


When I invested time in combing the parts cross-references for the motors once-upon-a-time, I recall that the F-Body was one of the last cars (if not the very last) to get the part. I've always wondered if a remaining stash of New Old Stock motors made their way to the factory for those final production runs or if a supplier outsourced the motor to 3rd parties during the final runs of the part. (Perhaps as the part was being discontinued and farmed out to small shops, those assembers took some liberties with how they were building/assembling them?)

 

It is quite interesting to me as well, as I bought this vehicle in 2005 from a Buick dealership in Ohio. At the time, it had 12,700mi on the odometer. Clean carfax. Came with a cover in the trunk, which lends me to believe it was stored inside, as the paint was flawless and so was the undercarriage. I drove her home the same day I flew out to get her.

Now, after 16 years of being garage kept, and with only 22k on her since August, I'm also stumped as to why the window motor(s) are failing. After researching so much and reading on here about the topic, I just chalk it up to GM making a decision to use a part that would cost them the least amount in mass production of these vehicles. Then, Pontiac dissolves closer to 2010. As far as the shudder on auto down or up, if its normal, then I can live with it. I was so excited just to see my window go down without needing to take a break for 15 minutes, that I laughed like a crazy person. No longer do I have to drive with the t-tops off and have the drivers side window up like a baffoon. Just in time for fall. :haha:

But GM should have corrected the issue to begin with, once these started to fail en masse.

Wait - just what kind of forum IS this??

 

I think we lost some love from GM when they made the decision (way before production stopped) to close the factory and end the F-Body.


We admire cars. That's it. Happy days are when examples like yours are restored to their proper condition!

 

That is likely the case. Killing off the F-body was likely talked about long before production of the 4th gen ceased.


Hahaha I know. I'm just bustin......bulges. But thank you. Trying to fix all the common issues with this vehicle. I've already replaced 6 of the 8 speakers with Kee Audio's level 4 kit. The ones for the door are getting installed as we do the window motors. Once all that is done, then hopefully I can focus on suspension/wheel and exhaust upgrades.

 

This was being mentioned at the dealership level at least as early as '99 (I had a couple friends that worked at a Chevy dealer in that era), so I'm sure corporate was discussing it prior to that.

As the model years progressed there were other shortcuts/omissions/reduction in quality on this platform. Perhaps the best known example was omission of the epoxy primer for the underside of the roof panels starting at the very end of '98 production (leading to the paint bubbles - something that is never a problem on the earlier 4th gens). Other such items also included the dropping of hood insulators for the steel hood cars after '99, as well as the lower door seal/weather strip, and lower quality trim was used around the windshield and hatch glass starting very early in the '01 model year. Steering wheel radio control buttons got cheaper on the Firebirds starting in the 2000 model year I believe. Those are just off the top of my head, I'm sure I'm forgetting a few other items. Point being, although there were some refinements to the powertrain (which makes sense, as the focus there was bigger than just F-body) over the years, most other areas of the car were either stale or getting cheaper.

 

Had no idea it was that bad, but it doesn't quite surprise me. And I certainly didn't know they were talking about killing off the F-body in 1999. It is unfortunate, and while certain trim levels on the 5th gen Camaro appeal to me, I feel like it has lost its heritage. For example, no t-tops. But that's for another discussion.

 

This article is very helpful. Thanks a lot! I was about 30 seconds away from drilling out the bug rivits, big time saver there. A little trouble getting the new holes lined up but all and all a pretty simple job but I spend too much time for it. I choose Autozone window from motor trader for my needs, and I'm very happy cause if doesn't look at small problems all become good. And the problem I faced is just awful! It took a lot of time to disassemble and assemble, as if everything was plugged in and the lift didn't work, but when the driver's door opened, the interior light came on, as usual, still unable to find the second wire port, as I found out it was. So thanks for such helpful information.

 

nice writeup...what drill bit size is everyone finding works the best???

 

The rivets that hold the motor onto the regulator are 1/4", so use a 1/4" bit to drill the rivets out.

Be sure to follow the shbox method: http://shbox.com/page/windowmotor.html

 

Hey gang,

some quick questions hoping all of you who have gone through this already can advise.

1) I see there are two methods to do this replacement. The drilling seems like the easier route. Is there any actual concerns with drilling ? Door integrity? Rust? Etc

2) all the videos I see the windows are in the upright position. Mine is stuck down! Can I still do this repair with it in the down position ? Or is there a way to manual lift it?

any insight helps!

 

Find Lupton Auto-Innovations on facebook and ask for LUP. Might go by LUPDAWG these days? Anyways, he has custom brackets that fit corvette window motors to replace our cheap window motors which will just fail again. Once I switched to these motors, I never went back.

 

Drilling is fine. The doors are fiberglass so won't rust. You can push the windows up when the motor is disconnected, but they are heavy so be careful, it might not be easy. Also, be careful drilling since the window is down. Put something between the glass and where you are drilling (like some scrap wood) as a safety barrier. Good time to grease the tracks while you are in there.

 

Great writeup...(back from the dead)....

I have done this so many times i think i know right where to drill in the FB right to those 3 rivets... lol

 

At the risk of getting flamed for resurrecting a window motor thread, I wanted to run this by some people to see if I can improve the situation.

Replaced my driver side motor 20 years ago, still going strong. About 2 months ago, I noticed the passenger side starting to slow down like the driver side did back in the day. Figured my luck ran out and it was time to replace.

Replaced with a Dorman motor using the shbox method (could not find any Cardone motors, think they are discontinued).

Got everything installed and low and behold, the passenger slide is still slow with the new Dorman motor. Definitely a difference between the speed on the driver's side and, as far as I can tell, it's the same speed as the old motor.

I did end up adding Sil-Glyde to all the regulator tracks I had access to, but that didn't seem to do much (I did not clean the tracks, just added more lube).

Anyone have any suggestions to try and make the window go faster? Did I just get a "slow" Dorman motor?

Thanks in advance!

 

AutoTrix has the cure. Installed their Passenger Window Fix Kit without changing to new motor. Working excellent!

 

Hi - thanks for the info, that's interesting, had not heard of the passenger side wiring not being thick enough to handle the power needed to run the motor. I looked at the kit on their website and the installation instructions, looks pretty straight forward, but can I ask you for the unofficial answer on how much of a PITA it was to actually do?

Thanks!

 

Based on the above...

If it was working well until two months ago, then I don't think the factory wiring configuration (which has been in place for 2+ decades) is the answer here. Could be that the track is still gummed up and it needs some cleaning before additional lube would bring it back to previous operational speed.

The AutoTrix kit was once a popular thing to do, but I find it's value to be questionable.