KurtRardin

iTrader: (11)

I've been thinking about how I would build a car that was meant to be fun, feel pretty fast, be a GREAT daily driver, not kill any kind of budget, and actually have an end to the project. Reliability is huge, as well as the ease of getting into it and driving like a stock car. I've come up with this:

First, it would need to start off with an A4 car. My wife doesnt really want to drive my car because its a hair-triggered 6speed with no traction and low gears that need lots of shifting... It could just be my tune, but a cam and a stiff clutch doesnt make for a super friendly driver.

So as an A4 car it would, Second,have to have 4.10 gears. This is one thing that I am absolutely set on and wouldnt budge. I've owned a big block car with 4.11s and a TH400. I know what its like to see 3000rpm at 45mph. But with overdrive its not bad. 4.10s make it FEEL like a rocket, and thats what we all want. So if you spend an extra $8 on fuel on a 5 hour long road trip who cares? I've ridden in a 3.73 ls1 A4 and it didnt seem nearly as nasty as a bolt on M6 4.10 LT1 car of my past. If you're going to the trouble of changing gears, put some in that have ***** and make the car a stop light rocket.

Third, Exhaust. I dont want to split hairs here because there are so many options, and sounds. If you want to be really cheap, go with an electric cutout and a stock muffler. I am unsure if headers are something that I would do. Yes, they make GREAT power, the only leak free system that I have had was the completely welded up system. I've had everything from U-bolt clamps to V-Band clamps. Nothing has been truly friendly. Its really not the headers that concern me, its the exhaust that follows. Poly engine mounts are almost a must and are a bitch to install. Headers make it difficult to pass inspection in some states, even with catted Y pipes. Not to mention that we have terrible ground clearance issues and I can personally attest to how terrible a catted Y pipe is on the clearance side. Which brings me to my next recommendation...

Fourth, Strano's suspension kit and upgraded brakes. Honestly, can anyone point out a better kit? I like what UMI did with it too, by adding a strut tower brace, and a set of subframe connectors. Get rid of the stock stuff and splurge on a bad *** suspension. If you opted not to do headers and catted Y then you just saved about half the cost of the suspension kit! Having a car that can take a corner like it was meant to is a lot of fun! Plus, it takes the "fbody" feel out of it all together and gives it a nice firm... almost european feel.

Fifth, bolt-ons. A lid and filter(obviously), under drive pulley, electric water pump (maybe), definitely an LS6 intake if yours didnt already have one (2001 and up), and a hogged out Throttle body. All good stuff that will get you under the hood turning some wrenches (or just screwdrivers) and result in some good power, not H/C or blower power, but power none the less. I would take it one step further and put some good pushrods and valve springs in, even for a stock car. Its a good thing to do as our cars get older, even if your plans dont include a cam or a bottle. If you really wanted to add some insurance, replace that old oil pump while you're doing the UDP and EWP.

Sixth, Something to tune it with. I've got HPTuners pro and its all but user friendly. It takes LOTS of reading, searching, testing, reading, searching, asking, testing, driving, scanning, head scratching, , just to uncover the surface. So, for a car that isnt going to become an iron 408 or a 250 shot vehicle I would stick to a predator. You werent going to really feel the power that a tune would give you anyway, all you really want out of it is the benefit of fixing your spedometer from the gears... and those will impress you and your friends enough. Sure you can still get the "power" associated with a tuner... and realistically, most of the canned tunes are meant for a car with: cat back, pullies, cold air, gears, and a thermostat.

Seventh, wheels and tires. If you're not an SS or WS6 then you're going to want some wider rubber. A great way to get that is to grab a pair of SS, WS6, or Vette wheels from ebay. You can throw some 275s all around, or 315's in the rear with the right wheels. Traction is something that you want, and with an A4 you shouldnt be in too much trouble of destroying a 10 bolt as long as you arent trying to compete in a wheelstand competition.

I would like to hear some replies and arguments. This build, in my mind, was meant to help someone who doesnt really want the nastiest car in town, but rather a "case-closed" driver that "is what it is." No need for a stall, a 12 bolt, or a crazy tune. There also wouldnt be any ground clearance issues, inspection/exhaust leak concerns, or exhaust vibrations that can only be fixed with poly mounts.

So, again, thats an A4 car with:
4.10s, cat back, complete suspension and brakes, bolt-ons, a handheld tuner, and rubber.

teke184

iTrader: (5)

while i understand your gear choice....i would probably still go for the slightly more friendly 3.73 gears. two reasons:

1- the obvious economy issue and cruising noise
2- the teeth are bigger so inherently stronger, the 10bolt needs all the help it can get.

for reliable power, that absolutely has to be daily driven...i would invest in some good ported heads and a thinner gasket. there is some serious power to be gained with basically ZERO loss in reliability or economy.

for suspension, i think the SFC are a "must have"...hands down. and even if you don't lower the car, GOOD QUALITY shocks will make the car a totally different car.

KurtRardin

iTrader: (11)

The 4.10s, in my opinion are the cornerstone of the whole car. They wind up much quicker and pull a lot harder, and after you spend $800 to buy all the stuff and pay someone to put them in (assuming you cant) I think you would be much happier with the butt-o-meter gains from the 4.10s. There's nothing like actually getting a response out of someone when you say "watch this." Your not going to get a huge response with the 3.73s. Not to mention, you'll pay about $5 more for every 300 miles on a tank, assuming you were getting 24mpg and now you get 19. Trust me, 4.10s are the way to go. If you wanted something that gets awesome gas mileage and is nasty fast then you get a bike. This car is all about the fun factor! 4.10s will make up for all the nasty that you arent getting from headers/cam/bottle, etc.

I didnt think about the head gasket idea. I guess in reality you can pick up a set of 243 heads cheaper than an electric water pump. I think I could add that to the list of things a budget/reliable/fun car could have.

350f

So you're telling us a LS1 car with 4.10s and bolt ons will be fun to drive? Thanks.

teke184

iTrader: (5)

higher gears will wake up ANY car.


sometimes i wonder if gears would INCREASE my gas mileage. i live in an area of all slow speed driving. i have to drive 1.5hrs to get to a highway with a speed limit >55mph.

i literally go a month without every using 6th gear, since its hard to dog the car around at 50mph in 6th...i use 5th most of the time.

having higher gears, would mean i can use 6th more often...so instead of running 1700rpm in 5th or bogging at 1250 in 6th, i could run about 1500 in 6th....and still not dog it.

TheBlueKnight

iTrader: (4)

I like all your thoughts. If I had an a4 I would definitely do 4.10's. I would have it dyno tuned to optimize everything instead of a hand held. Suspension sounds good, especially if the package offered by strano comes with Koni's. Don't know about the underdrive pulley, its going to turn the accessories slower, hence maybe making steering heavier than it already is in these f-bodies. This car is for your wife right? Also doesn't turn the alternator as fast, so when your idling, lights get dim, I suppose you can get the alternator pulley so it isn't as bad but I'm not sure how much it helps, I don't have any personal experience with it.

Instead of an electric cut out I'd say do a cat back like Magnaflow, its pretty quite when your just cruising. Lastly, the tires seem like a good idea. I have 275's all around right now. But when my tires are ready to be replaced, I want to upgrade to 285's all around since I believe thats the biggest you can go safely on ws6 wheels.

Basically in the end your looking at a car with around 400hp and some damn good handling that will be reliable as well.

KurtRardin

iTrader: (11)

The UDP was really just for good measure. I didnt have any trouble out of them on my old LT1 car, it actually made everything much smoother. What I was thinking of was more of the fun of installing something easy that wouldnt require major surgery and would yield a little better power. I love tackling a project on my car, especially the ones that are going to make it faster.

As far as the 4.10s in a 6speed go, yes, they make it much easier to drive and you can gear up more often. I have gotten several "in town" tanks thanks to my job being 3 miles away. I can safely say that my car gets about 15mpg in town... and 30 on the highway Somehow my mods made the factory numbers go in opposite directions!

Strano's kit does come with Konis... hence the big price, and the praise.

I'll go along with the dyno tune on this one. I honestly forgot about that option. That would make perfect sense in this case since this is a "case closed" type of build where I wouldnt change anything afterward.

This was meant to show how I would build a fun car that wouldnt involve much headache. Sure bolt on cars are pretty fast, but hardly ever a finished project. Most everyone out there has future plans, like a 454LSX twin turbo on a 400 shot with a paddle shifted alison transmission, dual flux capacitor and a unimog axle...

My guide was meant for the driver that wants a fast feeling car without having to fight the hood poppers and pipe sniffers; or worry about having to fight exhaust leaks or something that hurts reliability. And who knows, I dont see why a car like this couldnt see 12's either. Low 12s if they put it on a diet!

TheBlueKnight

iTrader: (4)

Yeah, your basically making a four seater Vette via it would handle great and run in the mid 12's

blown03mustang

first off let me say that i admire you for at least being realistic when it comes to your goals for the car! i think your goal is definitely attainable, definitely reasonable and well thought out. i like the idea of the suspension. i think that is one area that most people forget or just skip altogethor. for the type of setup youll be running id say go with a set of 275s all the way around and of course the strano kit to complete the handling dpt. the exhaust idea is smart but maybe a little to conservative. i think you should at least have a catback with a cutout. i understand your reasoning but c'mon at least live a little. i dont see the need for the u/d pulley. i dont think its very affective unless the car is at least cammed. but one thing you didnt mention under your power goals was sealing the air box. i read in another thread the other day that a guy (chris1316 i think?) sealed his airbox and gained like 15 or 20 hp over his lid'd intake. just somethin that i would check into? those are just some of my thoughts, but otherwise id say your headed in the right direction. good luck


oh and SEMPER FI

RevGTO

iTrader: (12)

Daily Driver means keeping the comfort factor in focus or it will become annoying and you will tire of the car before too long. That means:

Tranny & Gears: An M6 could fit the bill, but I won't argue with your choice of A4. 4.10's no way for DD. 3.23, 3.42, or 3.73 and a mild stall converter (2800-3200) will give all the stoplight action you need, give great driveability, keep noise down, and will preserve good fuel economy. Definitely a better way to go than 4.10's.

Exhaust: Agree headers optional. Lots of hassles with leaks, banging, and O2 sensor issues. Definitely a good flowing, quiet catback - Hooker (my preference) or Magnaflow.

Bolt-ons: Lid, ported throttle body, LS6 intake if the car didn't come with one. UDP questionable and forget EWP. Don't worry about pushrods, valve springs, etc. The concept is simplicity and so stick with stock internals.

Suspension: Good shocks (Bilstein or Koni), and Strano hollow sway bars. Stick with stock springs and you can do the lower perch/heater hose mod for a little drop with Konis. Forget SFC's. They add impact harshness to the ride. Upgraded brakes if you want to.

Wheels/Tires: Agree 17x9 with possible 11's on the rear. Good quality tires that fit the weather where you live - all seasons if you see cold and especially snow. BFG G-force Sports summer or all season versions are a good choice.

Tuning: Yes. Get EFILive or HPtuners. You will definitely want to tune your tranny, and probably other things as well.

That's my view.

Flaring Afro

the m6 can EASILY start in second, so even if in traffic there isnt much of a difference over an a4. if i feel like it i just go 2nd to 5th. our engines have so much low end its fine (why gm decided you could make a 1st to 4th shift easily). also it gets much better mpg than the a4 and the a4 needs a stall to "wake it up" which is really bad for mpgs. plus, half the girls i know can drive a stick, but arent into cars or anything. guess its my generation.

also, that doesnt fit "any kind of budget". all i could afford was one of the cheapest catbacks there is and sub frames after paying for the car since im in college. i mean honestly these brakes are great, unless i were to go road racing i dont see any point in upgrading them (besides looks).

PowerShift408

iTrader: (44)

Classic.

BTW, good story.

/Thread/

jmilz28

iTrader: (13)

What is your BUDGET?? That asked..

Your goals are very much in line with mine (see sig). Let me make some suggestions based on personal experience.

1. Tranny - A4 is needed for a woman's convenience, or anyone's. What if you sprain your ankle? Gears are good, mine woke up with 3.42s for sure. My highway mileage suffered, city MPG got better. I can imagine what 4.10s would do. I'll tell you this - You are missing the boat not looking harder at a stall. You need a good stall, a Yank or Vig, and keep it reasonable - 3200 or 3600. A good stall will actually make the car EASIER to drive, with gears - I don't care which ratio you pick. It softens the "hit" and makes traction easier to get. Add a big cooler and there is no downside to reliability. Also allows you to maximize the lifespan of your 10 bolt. Have you driven a car with a Yank or Vig that was properly tuned for it? I'm betting not. A stalled LS car is wicked, easily can drop .5 off the 1/4.
2. You are also missing the boat with exhaust. Headers make a huge difference and I have no issues at all with my ARHs. Get good headers, ARHs or Kooks, cattted Y, and a quality catback (new) and you'll have zero issues provided you do a proper install. Headers make a monster difference on these cars. You DO need to spend the time and coin to get a trouble free exhaust.
3. You're right on target on suspension and brakes. Shocks make more difference than anything, period. My little Bilsteins did more for my car than everything else combined. Simple brake upgrade is all you need, Hawk/Brembo/lines/fluid is fine, or C5 if you want to suck your eyeballs out. Try the Konis and sway bars first, I bet you are happy with that. You may want the LCAs and PHB for better launches. SFCs are optional, with good shocks in place, many stock components become acceptable. Shocks are the worst stock part on these cars. You will enjoy shocks every second you drive the car, not just when you hammer it. Shocks first, trust me.
4. You'd be retarded not to do a lid. Also, delete the AIR and EGR. Forget the EWP and UDP, there are reliability consequences there. Do an intake, LS6 if you don't have one, I suggest you swing for a ported FAST and TB if you have the scratch. Don't worry about the other "bolt ons".
5. Tuning is KEY - get a good dyno tune. It's worth every penny. You're F***ing yourself cutting this corner. Make sure you get someone that will spend some time tuning ON THE STREET also. Mike at Icon and Ron at Vengeance fall into this category, among others. Neglect this at your peril and your daily enjoyment will suffer.
6. Wheels and tires are important. Light wheels help comfort, handling, and traction. OEM Z06 are your best bet here, along with GOOD tires. 11 inch rears look cool and may be needed for traction but they are HEAVY, so if you don't need them, skip it. If this car will see rain, skip the drag radials too and get a good street tire. Don't skimp here, **** tires = **** performance.

7. You're missing out on something else too - Heads. If you have the budget, combine some ported AFR205s with the ported FAST intake. Don't crack the shortblock at all, IMHO. Strap in a Z06 cam if you really want to go crazy and have no downside. With a stock cam, and a GOOD TUNE, you will have the best of all worlds:
a. stock idle
b. stock MPG, though heavily affected by your gear choice
c. BIG power, expect close to 400rwhp through the A4 with a good tune - no compromises
d. Stock reliability, no compromises here either
e. This is budget driven, you may not want or be able to go this level

I like your concept very much - it mirrors mine and I can save you some mistakes.

Something else to remember...Maintenance is really key to keeping it reliable and therefore fun, esp. where the wife is involved. In addition to a regular regimen of (synthetic) fluid changes (tranny, diff, coolant, brake, PS), filter cleanings/changes, and injector cleanings (key for us) consider parts replacement. Number one, get an Optima or other dry cell battery. MUCH better and will not leak. This will save you a tow at some point. Certain parts carry lifetime warranties, parts AND labor, from GM dealerships. I nutted up and had my parts replaced at a REPUTABLE dealer: AC compressor, water pump, alternator, plug wires, fuel pump, injectors, starter. Already had the AC comp. replaced and the alternator several times. This was a good investment and the peace of mind is nice. Not to mention, I don't have to get dirty fixing ****, I can save the dirty for upgrades. Between these items and the battery, there has been very little unplanned downtime. Being broken down on the roadside diminishes the "fun" factor by a lot, especially to the wife.

KurtRardin

iTrader: (11)

Good reply. Obviously, the car in my sig is my car, and its got a cam and full exhaust, and gears, etc. I plan on building it even further in that direction

What my little write-up was meant for was the person that might already have an automatic car and has no mods, but wants a faster car without the headache of leaks, inspection, reliability, etc. I have a friend who makes a perfect example: Owns a '01 A4 Z28 that is stock down to the air filter. He drives it about 10k miles per year... or less. He wants to start building on it, but I advised him from the moment that he first owned it to take your time with parts. Don't do what I did and start bolting up crap in the search for HP. Instead I advised him to make a goal for the car. A specific overall goal, with a hp goal, and a driveability goal. How many cars started out as a typical bolt-on car and ended up as a low-compression turbo car? If you can, try to see that goal and build for it from the beginning. I can't even imagine how much money I have spent on parts that have been replaced with other parts. If I had known that I was going to need HP tuners, then I never would have purchased a vinci tuner. If I had known that I was going to have LTs (or a H/C project ) then I never would have purchased a loudmouth, or a borla muffler for it, or a TSP catted Y. If I had known that I would want a midwest rear, then I never would have put 4.10s in my car... even though I did learn a lot while doing that.
So, my friends car is completey stock now, and hes cool with it now because he hasnt wasted any bones on parts that he wont need. All of my advice for him started after he was asking me about a good catback... and later in the conversation mentioned an STS turbo kit. I stopped him there and mentioned that $500 on a catback would be wasted if he went that route.

This writeup was meant for the owner of a A4 (not me) that wants a "cased closed" "it is what it is" car, but wants it to be fast and reliable.

A huge thing that I believe in is using tried and true methods, and full kits. Strano's kit is one of them. You drop one big dime on a suspension kit and its done (or it would satisfy most).

For someone that drives a car 5k miles per year, or doesnt really car about economy (and it wouldnt hurt things as bas as everyone thinks... been there done that) I still hold strong on the 4.10s. Makes it feel like a rocket, cheap butt-o-meter gains, and nothing has visually changed about the car. The lid is pretty much the first thing that any LS1 owner runs out and buys, so I forgot to even put that in, although I did tell my bud to hold of on even that because he may go F/I. I agree that headers make massive increase for us, but it may pose a problem for some people. If a person could in anyway work them in, then do it. Just don't waste your time on shorties.

If someone could get past the mental block of removing the transmission, then sure, a converter would make all the difference.

What I had imagined though was a mostly OEM car (minor bolt-ons), with full suspension/brakes/tires, 4.10 gears, and a good tune. Much more than that and some might run into problems with local laws, speed bumps, etc. But, exect the above mods to make a massive difference in the car when compared to its stock trim!

Y2K WS6

iTrader: (33)

you can't compare an ls1 A4 with stock stall to an 6 speed LT1 it was a MUCH torqueier engine in the low RPM. but had much less top end. and not only that the gears in an M6 and A4 have very different ratios.

I know my 3:42 M6 feels like it pulls a lot harder than my friends 3:23's A4 we haven't put in a torque converter yet. but i fully believe that the 4:10's you want so bad will be a royal pain in the ***. I'm from the country where we hit the interstate and cruise at 80 a lot. so my needs are different.

i have strano suspension and love it, the Koni's change the car completely. while you do not NEED sub frame connectors with them, they will take about 2/3rds of the creeks and rattles out of the car.