What does it take to optimize your 102 FAST??
04-05-2010, 07:21 AM
#21
How much of a difference is there in stepping up to a FAST over a ls6 intake with a stock 243 headed car? Cam is on the large side, 242/248, and I am looking at making more power, especially up top where the cam lives. Right now been thinking just a un ported 102, or a used 92 if I can find them. What kind of difference am I looking at between a used 90/92/102, ported or un ported?
04-05-2010, 12:16 PM
#22
How much of a difference is there in stepping up to a FAST over a ls6 intake with a stock 243 headed car? Cam is on the large side, 242/248, and I am looking at making more power, especially up top where the cam lives. Right now been thinking just a un ported 102, or a used 92 if I can find them. What kind of difference am I looking at between a used 90/92/102, ported or un ported?
The porting will approximately double the gains from the install but with stock 243's I would look to see maybe 8 unported and 15 with the porting. Swap on a set of heads down the road and you get a bonus 10 HP that you left under the table now not having a premium set of heads originally when you swapped intakes.
Here is a graph of one of my ported 90 FAST intakes (or 92....cant remember) on a stock headed stock cam combo. Just had longtubes, CAI....maybe a lower stat....basically a bolt on car with a stock longblock. And note this was an LS1 car with worse heads than yours (stock 1999 LS1 heads). Now perhaps a new 102 may is worth a few more but you get the idea. My customer was very pleased with these gains all things considered, especially with stock LS1 heads. He knew he was going to have me do an intake when he got around to a set of AFR heads and cam anyway so he picked up a decent little power gain with his stock set-up in the interim. Solid torque gains in the middle of the curve and it carries alot better upstairs
Hope this helps....
-Tony
04-05-2010, 02:24 PM
#24
Good question....he had already upgraded to an LS6 intake when he added the headers and a CAI etc.
It was a pretty strong baseline for a stock LS1 car with essentially headers and a cold air box (I think he also had an UDP and 1.8 rockers but I'm not 100% sure).
I told him he may only see 8-12 HP from the swap knowing the heads were so weak but overall he saw very nice gains if you approached this with a sensible expectation of the results. Once again, he knew he would use the same induction down the road so he viewed it as a way to bump his current output while he raised the rest of the cash necessary for the H/C swap.
Also, he said the SOTP felt like he picked up twice what the dyno shows with a dramatic improvement in throttle response so he was really stoked with the intake upgrade. Thats half the reason for going to the larger intake swaps with the big TB.....engine feels like it picks up 50 ft/lbs of torque and is alot more responsive. Its a great mod....second only to a cam swap which is alot more of a PITA to install.
-Tony
It was a pretty strong baseline for a stock LS1 car with essentially headers and a cold air box (I think he also had an UDP and 1.8 rockers but I'm not 100% sure).
I told him he may only see 8-12 HP from the swap knowing the heads were so weak but overall he saw very nice gains if you approached this with a sensible expectation of the results. Once again, he knew he would use the same induction down the road so he viewed it as a way to bump his current output while he raised the rest of the cash necessary for the H/C swap.
Also, he said the SOTP felt like he picked up twice what the dyno shows with a dramatic improvement in throttle response so he was really stoked with the intake upgrade. Thats half the reason for going to the larger intake swaps with the big TB.....engine feels like it picks up 50 ft/lbs of torque and is alot more responsive. Its a great mod....second only to a cam swap which is alot more of a PITA to install.
-Tony
04-05-2010, 03:39 PM
#25
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Tony, great info here! Was the same throttle body used for the before/after intake swaps, or were those changed as well? (keep in mind, I'm trying to learn about intake and tbs for my next mod).
04-05-2010, 04:14 PM
#26
The 102 will likely respond a little better to a 102 TB, but my guess is it wont be a big difference if you already have a properly shaped 90 or 92mm TB already.
-Tony
04-05-2010, 04:36 PM
#27
So a ported mani will still be beneficial to my set up...awesome! I do plan on getting a set of heads later on, but budget right now doesn't quite allow that. But this will still be a good mod that just opens up more opportunity later on down the road. A ported FAST will also show more prominent gains over the ls6 past ~6200 correct? I spin my cam to 7000 rpms, and on the dyno you can see where power starts to drop off around ~6400-7k.
04-05-2010, 05:44 PM
#28
So a ported mani will still be beneficial to my set up...awesome! I do plan on getting a set of heads later on, but budget right now doesn't quite allow that. But this will still be a good mod that just opens up more opportunity later on down the road. A ported FAST will also show more prominent gains over the ls6 past ~6200 correct? I spin my cam to 7000 rpms, and on the dyno you can see where power starts to drop off around ~6400-7k.
Like I said, its worth some power, and the porting adding to that even further, but your only tapping into 60% of what this type of mod can offer a combination that has higher airflow demands.
BUT....the SOTP will leave you swearing you picked up twice what the dyno shows you....trust me on that.
-Tony
04-06-2010, 12:17 AM
#33
When playing blackjack its always good to double down on an eleven.....especially when the dealer is showing a six!
Two things are essential for a successful venture at home.....knowing how to shape the final product and being able to execute that shape with a reasonable level of neatness and consistency.
Some stuff is obvious.....other stuff isn't.
Alot of patience and the right tools for the job is key.....however, IMO, much like porting heads, this is much better handled by someone with alot of experience. Its easy to go backwards and hurt your cause if its not approached properly. If you place a high value on an extremely neat execution, dont want to stress at all, and are looking for "all the money" from your intake, my real tip is to work overtime and pay me to do it
-Tony
PS....And don't forget to ALWAYS double down on an eleven if the dealer has a bust card!!
Two things are essential for a successful venture at home.....knowing how to shape the final product and being able to execute that shape with a reasonable level of neatness and consistency.
Some stuff is obvious.....other stuff isn't.
Alot of patience and the right tools for the job is key.....however, IMO, much like porting heads, this is much better handled by someone with alot of experience. Its easy to go backwards and hurt your cause if its not approached properly. If you place a high value on an extremely neat execution, dont want to stress at all, and are looking for "all the money" from your intake, my real tip is to work overtime and pay me to do it
-Tony
PS....And don't forget to ALWAYS double down on an eleven if the dealer has a bust card!!
04-06-2010, 12:28 AM
#35
Tony I have always wondered this.
How many intakes has it taken for you to get where you are today? Like anything else there is a learning curve. However your learning curve is going to be different than the average joe.
I have this image in my head, Tony is like a mad scientist, with stacks of cylinder heads and intakes in the corner with him working on another trying to make it better.
That's pretty much how I picture Tony. LOL. He knows I have mad respect for him.
How many intakes has it taken for you to get where you are today? Like anything else there is a learning curve. However your learning curve is going to be different than the average joe.
I have this image in my head, Tony is like a mad scientist, with stacks of cylinder heads and intakes in the corner with him working on another trying to make it better.
That's pretty much how I picture Tony. LOL. He knows I have mad respect for him.
04-06-2010, 12:42 AM
#36
And the "Retard Eliminator" in your sig literally made me laugh out loud!
LilJay.....thats not such a stretch. I do have a pile of "experiment heads" scattered in my R&D room.....and I admit to porting a hole in more than one FAST.....LOL
Catch you guys later
-Tony
04-06-2010, 01:58 AM
#38
That's a pretty accurate summary....LOL
And the "Retard Eliminator" in your sig literally made me laugh out loud!
LilJay.....thats not such a stretch. I do have a pile of "experiment heads" scattered in my R&D room.....and I admit to porting a hole in more than one FAST.....LOL
Catch you guys later
-Tony
And the "Retard Eliminator" in your sig literally made me laugh out loud!
LilJay.....thats not such a stretch. I do have a pile of "experiment heads" scattered in my R&D room.....and I admit to porting a hole in more than one FAST.....LOL
Catch you guys later
-Tony
Yeah I thought that the Retard Eliminator was the best car related/internet mythbuster double meaning I could come up with.
04-06-2010, 03:47 PM
#40
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I've been there. I've seen it. I've tripped over them!Mr. Mamo, drinking on the job again I see!