The fix for my endless alternator failure's
06-29-2010, 04:24 AM
#63
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Same alternator problem to the T Glad I found this post when I did. Was just about to change the radiator fan motors thinking they were spiking the alt. Problems were exactly the same as the original poster described. Went through six alternators in two years. Four Bosch and two densos from the parts place that starts with a N. Two of these had the when hot I'll take a ten minute break deal. Got a junked ad244 and its working fine. The parts place is refunding me the price of the last cs-130d which is 2 weeks old. Hope this alternator lasts it looked so ugly from the wrecking yard which is 100 yards from the beach. If it doesn't I'll just buy the components from National quick start.
Mahalo
from H.I.
Mahalo
from H.I.
06-29-2010, 09:09 AM
#64
Glad I found this post when I did. Was just about to change the radiator fan motors thinking they were spiking the alt. Problems were exactly the same as the original poster described. Went through six alternators in two years. Four Bosch and two densos from the parts place that starts with a N. Two of these had the when hot I'll take a ten minute break deal. Got a junked ad244 and its working fine. The parts place is refunding me the price of the last cs-130d which is 2 weeks old. Hope this alternator lasts it looked so ugly from the wrecking yard which is 100 yards from the beach. If it doesn't I'll just buy the components from National quick start.
Mahalo
from H.I.
Mahalo
from H.I.
Anyway glad it helped let us know if it gives you any trouble.
06-29-2010, 09:12 AM
#65
Well that would be assuming that there is actually too much flex, have you seen it flex? What is the procharger bolted to that affects this?
If one of us cracks a bracket im sure we will be back in here to talk about it, and the truck does well with just the two bolts. Until then all of us are happy that we can actually drive our cars without having to spend more time under the car swapping alternators than we spend in the car driving.
Also as I already stated if this does crack my alternator bracket then I will most likely replace it with adjustment style alternator brackets that are made for our cars. Those dont use the rear support either.
I dont think you can just switch the housings of the alternator, the parts of the truck alternator are larger that you would swap.
Also I don't really know much about the way a pro-charger is mounted and how its driven so how would it affect the alternator, thats what im asking in that first sentance anyway.
Last edited by 00pooterSS; 06-29-2010 at 09:53 AM.
06-29-2010, 11:00 AM
#66
The procharger j-bracket mounts to the alternator. You replace the bolt with a threaded rod then a standoff goes onto the threaded rod, then the j-bracket bolts to it.
Do you have a pic of both of the alternators?
Which is bigger on the truck alternator, the housing or the stator?
Do you have a pic of both of the alternators?
Which is bigger on the truck alternator, the housing or the stator?
Well that would be assuming that there is actually too much flex, have you seen it flex? What is the procharger bolted to that affects this?
If one of us cracks a bracket im sure we will be back in here to talk about it, and the truck does well with just the two bolts. Until then all of us are happy that we can actually drive our cars without having to spend more time under the car swapping alternators than we spend in the car driving.
Also as I already stated if this does crack my alternator bracket then I will most likely replace it with adjustment style alternator brackets that are made for our cars. Those dont use the rear support either.
I dont think you can just switch the housings of the alternator, the parts of the truck alternator are larger that you would swap.
Also I don't really know much about the way a pro-charger is mounted and how its driven so how would it affect the alternator, thats what im asking in that first sentance anyway.
If one of us cracks a bracket im sure we will be back in here to talk about it, and the truck does well with just the two bolts. Until then all of us are happy that we can actually drive our cars without having to spend more time under the car swapping alternators than we spend in the car driving.
Also as I already stated if this does crack my alternator bracket then I will most likely replace it with adjustment style alternator brackets that are made for our cars. Those dont use the rear support either.
I dont think you can just switch the housings of the alternator, the parts of the truck alternator are larger that you would swap.
Also I don't really know much about the way a pro-charger is mounted and how its driven so how would it affect the alternator, thats what im asking in that first sentance anyway.
06-29-2010, 02:37 PM
#68
The procharger j-bracket mounts to the alternator. You replace the bolt with a threaded rod then a standoff goes onto the threaded rod, then the j-bracket bolts to it.
Do you have a pic of both of the alternators?
Which is bigger on the truck alternator, the housing or the stator?
Do you have a pic of both of the alternators?
Which is bigger on the truck alternator, the housing or the stator?
And you are putting additional pressure on your bracket as well and it sounds like its fine, but yes I think in your case you may be pushing it on the stock bracket if you did this truck alternator.
06-29-2010, 04:21 PM
#70
But you also just posted a lot of speculation, and said things should have been done that are not possible ( swapping alternator cases ).
You believe that there is all this addition pressure, when if you considered this properly you would realize the way that the bracket of your supercharger is clamped down by a bolt, that that actually is taking the weight not bracket.
So im somewhat following you but I don't yet assume or think that there is going to be a problem. If there is there are other options like CNC aluminum alternator brackets that would be much stronger than cast aluminum.
Look at the pics posted at the end of page 3, the bracket does not actually support the alternator, the bolts go all the way through it into the block on the bottom and cyl head on the top, if the bracket mounted to the car and then the alternator bolted to the bracket it would be a lot more likely that you would have problems since the bracket alone would be supporting all that was bolted to it, in this case its doing very little of the work by the fact that the bolts clamp the bracket down against the alternator and then into the block/head, so that supports almost every bit of load right there.
Picture it without the bracket and just two bolts going through the alternator into the block, now if you picture how the bracket works then you will see that it actually works more like a spacer than anything
You believe that there is all this addition pressure, when if you considered this properly you would realize the way that the bracket of your supercharger is clamped down by a bolt, that that actually is taking the weight not bracket.
So im somewhat following you but I don't yet assume or think that there is going to be a problem. If there is there are other options like CNC aluminum alternator brackets that would be much stronger than cast aluminum.
Look at the pics posted at the end of page 3, the bracket does not actually support the alternator, the bolts go all the way through it into the block on the bottom and cyl head on the top, if the bracket mounted to the car and then the alternator bolted to the bracket it would be a lot more likely that you would have problems since the bracket alone would be supporting all that was bolted to it, in this case its doing very little of the work by the fact that the bolts clamp the bracket down against the alternator and then into the block/head, so that supports almost every bit of load right there.
Picture it without the bracket and just two bolts going through the alternator into the block, now if you picture how the bracket works then you will see that it actually works more like a spacer than anything
Last edited by 00pooterSS; 06-29-2010 at 04:30 PM.
06-29-2010, 05:19 PM
#71
Holy ****, chill out. Relax. The threads all yours.
But you also just posted a lot of speculation, and said things should have been done that are not possible ( swapping alternator cases ).
You believe that there is all this addition pressure, when if you considered this properly you would realize the way that the bracket of your supercharger is clamped down by a bolt, that that actually is taking the weight not bracket.
So im somewhat following you but I don't yet assume or think that there is going to be a problem. If there is there are other options like CNC aluminum alternator brackets that would be much stronger than cast aluminum.
Look at the pics posted at the end of page 3, the bracket does not actually support the alternator, the bolts go all the way through it into the block on the bottom and cyl head on the top, if the bracket mounted to the car and then the alternator bolted to the bracket it would be a lot more likely that you would have problems since the bracket alone would be supporting all that was bolted to it, in this case its doing very little of the work by the fact that the bolts clamp the bracket down against the alternator and then into the block/head, so that supports almost every bit of load right there.
Picture it without the bracket and just two bolts going through the alternator into the block, now if you picture how the bracket works then you will see that it actually works more like a spacer than anything
You believe that there is all this addition pressure, when if you considered this properly you would realize the way that the bracket of your supercharger is clamped down by a bolt, that that actually is taking the weight not bracket.
So im somewhat following you but I don't yet assume or think that there is going to be a problem. If there is there are other options like CNC aluminum alternator brackets that would be much stronger than cast aluminum.
Look at the pics posted at the end of page 3, the bracket does not actually support the alternator, the bolts go all the way through it into the block on the bottom and cyl head on the top, if the bracket mounted to the car and then the alternator bolted to the bracket it would be a lot more likely that you would have problems since the bracket alone would be supporting all that was bolted to it, in this case its doing very little of the work by the fact that the bolts clamp the bracket down against the alternator and then into the block/head, so that supports almost every bit of load right there.
Picture it without the bracket and just two bolts going through the alternator into the block, now if you picture how the bracket works then you will see that it actually works more like a spacer than anything
06-29-2010, 05:42 PM
#72
Hey its been a long day! JK, seriously I wasn't trying to be a dick, more-so I was trying to be informative. Some of that sounded harsh but I was just stating truths.
I actually think you would be fine in your case but do agree that you are putting quite a bit more things in an area than there should be and also reducing supporting pieces, so I get it, but by design I think this will be ok.
Sometimes those brackets (the rear one I removed) are used to keep whatever it is bracing from vibrating causing resonant sound. I have seen it happen on older GM's where the bracing brackets were left off. But thats back in the old days where everything was stamped steel and the unit that was being braced was bolted only to the bracket and did not have bolts that went through the unit and the bracket into such a solid structure like in this case they run through to the block, so this main alternator bracket on our cars does not handle near as much abuse, or in other words does not support that much load, its transferred through. Its more like a guide plate so to speak.
I actually think you would be fine in your case but do agree that you are putting quite a bit more things in an area than there should be and also reducing supporting pieces, so I get it, but by design I think this will be ok.
Sometimes those brackets (the rear one I removed) are used to keep whatever it is bracing from vibrating causing resonant sound. I have seen it happen on older GM's where the bracing brackets were left off. But thats back in the old days where everything was stamped steel and the unit that was being braced was bolted only to the bracket and did not have bolts that went through the unit and the bracket into such a solid structure like in this case they run through to the block, so this main alternator bracket on our cars does not handle near as much abuse, or in other words does not support that much load, its transferred through. Its more like a guide plate so to speak.
06-29-2010, 06:24 PM
#74
I've been running this style of alternator for at least a couple of years (as a weekend warrior/nice weather ride), rapping it out to 6,700 RPMs on MULTIPLE occassions, and I have yet to see any adverse effects to not having the rear bracket. And that's with a stock sized ATI super-damper, so it certainly isn't being underdriven to those RPMs. If I end up with a failure, you all will be the first to know so that others don't make the same mistake.
06-29-2010, 09:04 PM
#75
I've been running this style of alternator for at least a couple of years (as a weekend warrior/nice weather ride), rapping it out to 6,700 RPMs on MULTIPLE occassions, and I have yet to see any adverse effects to not having the rear bracket. And that's with a stock sized ATI super-damper, so it certainly isn't being underdriven to those RPMs. If I end up with a failure, you all will be the first to know so that others don't make the same mistake.
07-06-2010, 11:56 AM
#76
This is a great thread and nice work by 00pooterSS. My factory alt had a good long life, but the trouble started after I swapped on a N**A rebuild. Worked fine until I took the car onto a road course and ran it past 5K RPM for long periods, after which it puked.
My LS1 is in an '82 Z28, and the truck alt simply won't fit. The third-gen chassis has a triangular brace between the crossmember and frame rail which interferes w/ fitment, and the steering shaft is also in a different location than 4th gens which put the alt danger-close. No dice, so I explored options for the CS130D alt.
I took the replacement N**A rebuild to a local specialty shop and they opened it up. The rectifier was a Chinese-made unit and had 40-Amp diodes in it. Delco spec is 50A diodes. This might explain the tendency to fail under high load and high output. No clue what the other rebuilders are using, but the rectifiers are a good place to look.
The shop is upgrading mine to an Israeli-made rectifier with 70-Amp diodes. It won't increase the output of the alt, but will increase the tolerance to output load at rated max. So if the alt is working hard recharging a low battery, or running at 5K+ RPM for long periods of time, the rectifier can take the current the alt is producing with a bigger safety margin.
$71 total for part and labor. Would have been an extra $12 if it needed brushes.
I won't be back on a road course with it until August, but I'll report back then with findings.
My LS1 is in an '82 Z28, and the truck alt simply won't fit. The third-gen chassis has a triangular brace between the crossmember and frame rail which interferes w/ fitment, and the steering shaft is also in a different location than 4th gens which put the alt danger-close. No dice, so I explored options for the CS130D alt.
I took the replacement N**A rebuild to a local specialty shop and they opened it up. The rectifier was a Chinese-made unit and had 40-Amp diodes in it. Delco spec is 50A diodes. This might explain the tendency to fail under high load and high output. No clue what the other rebuilders are using, but the rectifiers are a good place to look.
The shop is upgrading mine to an Israeli-made rectifier with 70-Amp diodes. It won't increase the output of the alt, but will increase the tolerance to output load at rated max. So if the alt is working hard recharging a low battery, or running at 5K+ RPM for long periods of time, the rectifier can take the current the alt is producing with a bigger safety margin.
$71 total for part and labor. Would have been an extra $12 if it needed brushes.
I won't be back on a road course with it until August, but I'll report back then with findings.
07-06-2010, 03:33 PM
#77
This is a great thread and nice work by 00pooterSS. My factory alt had a good long life, but the trouble started after I swapped on a N**A rebuild. Worked fine until I took the car onto a road course and ran it past 5K RPM for long periods, after which it puked.
My LS1 is in an '82 Z28, and the truck alt simply won't fit. The third-gen chassis has a triangular brace between the crossmember and frame rail which interferes w/ fitment, and the steering shaft is also in a different location than 4th gens which put the alt danger-close. No dice, so I explored options for the CS130D alt.
I took the replacement N**A rebuild to a local specialty shop and they opened it up. The rectifier was a Chinese-made unit and had 40-Amp diodes in it. Delco spec is 50A diodes. This might explain the tendency to fail under high load and high output. No clue what the other rebuilders are using, but the rectifiers are a good place to look.
The shop is upgrading mine to an Israeli-made rectifier with 70-Amp diodes. It won't increase the output of the alt, but will increase the tolerance to output load at rated max. So if the alt is working hard recharging a low battery, or running at 5K+ RPM for long periods of time, the rectifier can take the current the alt is producing with a bigger safety margin.
$71 total for part and labor. Would have been an extra $12 if it needed brushes.
I won't be back on a road course with it until August, but I'll report back then with findings.
My LS1 is in an '82 Z28, and the truck alt simply won't fit. The third-gen chassis has a triangular brace between the crossmember and frame rail which interferes w/ fitment, and the steering shaft is also in a different location than 4th gens which put the alt danger-close. No dice, so I explored options for the CS130D alt.
I took the replacement N**A rebuild to a local specialty shop and they opened it up. The rectifier was a Chinese-made unit and had 40-Amp diodes in it. Delco spec is 50A diodes. This might explain the tendency to fail under high load and high output. No clue what the other rebuilders are using, but the rectifiers are a good place to look.
The shop is upgrading mine to an Israeli-made rectifier with 70-Amp diodes. It won't increase the output of the alt, but will increase the tolerance to output load at rated max. So if the alt is working hard recharging a low battery, or running at 5K+ RPM for long periods of time, the rectifier can take the current the alt is producing with a bigger safety margin.
$71 total for part and labor. Would have been an extra $12 if it needed brushes.
I won't be back on a road course with it until August, but I'll report back then with findings.
I knew it was shitty rebuild parts causing the problem because the original lasted so long and thats what I got into an argument about with the parts house guy, he wouldn't give me a refund, just an exchange. Well I have exchanged it at least 10 times and it has not helped. Finally after a lot of tension and onlooking customers the manager gave me my money back.
SIDE NOTE: I still do not have any issues what-so-ever since going to the truck alternator. And I have an extra 200 in my pocket so im very happy.
Thank you crainholio for posting what is dying inside these POS alternators. If I find a burned up used CS-130D I might rebuild it now knowing that. I know where to get quality rebuild parts and can do it myself, so again, thanks.
07-07-2010, 07:06 AM
#79
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On a different note, this bigger alternator will also work on 98+ S10's (I believe). I will try it out this weekend and see. Also, I will see if it fits on a 2003 Mustang V6 (wife's car). We went through 4 "Ford" alternators and still have the rpm drop and alternator idiot light occasionally not to mention the power steering and alternator whine. Same goes for my truck.
