Air Filter: K&N or Paper Filter?
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From: West Covina, So Cal
Air Filter: K&N or Paper Filter? Hi guys,
I have the SLP black wing lid on my 99 SS, since i just bought the car at 46k miles, I want to replace the air filter. Currently it has k&n filter in there, and I know i can clean it, but i would prefer to just replace it.
does the k&n filter really give me any performance advantage or does a stock paper filter will do the same trick?
Thanks,
Sid
I have the SLP black wing lid on my 99 SS, since i just bought the car at 46k miles, I want to replace the air filter. Currently it has k&n filter in there, and I know i can clean it, but i would prefer to just replace it.
does the k&n filter really give me any performance advantage or does a stock paper filter will do the same trick?
Thanks,
Sid
Hi guys,
I have the SLP black wing lid on my 99 SS, since i just bought the car at 46k miles, I want to replace the air filter. Currently it has k&n filter in there, and I know i can clean it, but i would prefer to just replace it.
does the k&n filter really give me any performance advantage or does a stock paper filter will do the same trick?
Thanks,
Sid
I have the SLP black wing lid on my 99 SS, since i just bought the car at 46k miles, I want to replace the air filter. Currently it has k&n filter in there, and I know i can clean it, but i would prefer to just replace it.
does the k&n filter really give me any performance advantage or does a stock paper filter will do the same trick?
Thanks,
Sid
If you want more dirt particles to go through your engine and wear it out faster and MAYBE gain 1 HP.....use a K&N.
If you want real protection from small dirt particles....use a paper filter.
And if K&N filters really do provide an increase in power.....its maybe 1-2 HP. WHY.....becuase it allows more air to pass through it...which allows more dirt to pass through it too.
Also, the second it rains outside after you re-oil a K&N, you just DECREASED your WOT performance, Because the second water/mist/moisture from driving through the rain hits that oil on the K&N, it goes directly onto your MAF. Now you just began to decrease your WOT performance. Nobody thinks about that. So every time it rains, you must clean your MAF, if you want peak performance at WOT from your MAF.
Go A/C Delco paper, your engine will like that. Give up that 1-2 POSSIBLE HP that K&N MIGHT allow (I doubt it) and have proper engine protection.
.
This topic has been beaten to death, but if we must discuss it again, my opinion is to just use a damn paper filter, yes you'll have to buy new ones every so often but you don't have to deal with cleaning it and oiling it, and there's no proof that a K&N does anything for performance. Plus some people have experienced bad fitment with the K&N which means the lid doesn't seal properly, allowing particles to get past the filter.
LS6427 just ****** SNAPPED over the K&N. lol
I used a Holley and never had a problem with it. If you maintain it properly oiled filters actually capture MORE dirt than a paper filter will. Most dyno runs I've seen are in the neighrborhood of 1-3hp difference... That's within dyno variance in most cases. I know they do legitimately flow more air than the paper filters do in some cases. Just doesn't seem to make that much of a difference in the 4th Gen F-Bodies....
I used a Holley and never had a problem with it. If you maintain it properly oiled filters actually capture MORE dirt than a paper filter will. Most dyno runs I've seen are in the neighrborhood of 1-3hp difference... That's within dyno variance in most cases. I know they do legitimately flow more air than the paper filters do in some cases. Just doesn't seem to make that much of a difference in the 4th Gen F-Bodies....
Paper. I ran a K&N setup on my old ZR2 for a while, and after a good weekend offroading, the inside of the intake tract would be dusty as hell, and oil always came out pitch-black. Switched back to paper filters and the intake tract never got dirty again, and oil went back to being a normal, dark amber color at changes.
I've also seen weird MAF readings due to downstream oil coating (although that's really from any oiled cotton media), although not too often.
I've also seen weird MAF readings due to downstream oil coating (although that's really from any oiled cotton media), although not too often.
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From: south jersey. again
K&N is nothing more than a scam. It provides zero performance gains or such SLIGHT gains, its nothing worth talking about. When they do a dyno run with a paper filter and then they put a K&N filter in there and then do another run....yeah, you might see a difference of 1, 2, 5, 10 RWHP between dyno runs. Maybe a decrease in HP, but they would never tell the public about those. But if you do 4 dyno runs with any car, and for all 4 runs use the same exact filter for them all.....you will also get 4 different RWHP read outs. K&N just tells everyone about those dyno runs that show a little gain.....then BAM, it must be our super duper, special K&N filter. Its a joke.
If you want more dirt particles to go through your engine and wear it out faster and MAYBE gain 1 HP.....use a K&N.
If you want real protection from small dirt particles....use a paper filter.
And if K&N filters really do provide an increase in power.....its maybe 1-2 HP. WHY.....becuase it allows more air to pass through it...which allows more dirt to pass through it too.
Also, the second it rains outside after you re-oil a K&N, you just DECREASED your WOT performance, Because the second water/mist/moisture from driving through the rain hits that oil on the K&N, it goes directly onto your MAF. Now you just began to decrease your WOT performance. Nobody thinks about that. So every time it rains, you must clean your MAF, if you want peak performance at WOT from your MAF.
Go A/C Delco paper, your engine will like that. Give up that 1-2 POSSIBLE HP that K&N MIGHT allow (I doubt it) and have proper engine protection.
.
If you want more dirt particles to go through your engine and wear it out faster and MAYBE gain 1 HP.....use a K&N.
If you want real protection from small dirt particles....use a paper filter.
And if K&N filters really do provide an increase in power.....its maybe 1-2 HP. WHY.....becuase it allows more air to pass through it...which allows more dirt to pass through it too.
Also, the second it rains outside after you re-oil a K&N, you just DECREASED your WOT performance, Because the second water/mist/moisture from driving through the rain hits that oil on the K&N, it goes directly onto your MAF. Now you just began to decrease your WOT performance. Nobody thinks about that. So every time it rains, you must clean your MAF, if you want peak performance at WOT from your MAF.
Go A/C Delco paper, your engine will like that. Give up that 1-2 POSSIBLE HP that K&N MIGHT allow (I doubt it) and have proper engine protection.
.
you can get testimony from all the other people that have had the same issues with there k&n filters.
if you can not prove any of this, please stop misleading people.
thank you jim
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Verdad Gallardo Physics is pretty simple. Like LS6427 said, if you want more flow, you need a filter element with a more open media, which means you're going to allow more dirt in, which causes dirty oil, which is a direct cause of engine wear. Think about it - if you can go 50,000 miles without cleaning a K&N filter and it still flows near the same rate at that point as it did when it was brand new, where do you think all the dirt went? It's not embedded in the filter, or it wouldn't flow nearly as well.
Also, like he said, any possible power gains because of a filter swap are going to be lower than your inherent variance between dyno runs, with the exact same setup each time, ergo, while you can prove a K&N flows more than a paper filter (air, dust, and all), you can't empirically prove it makes any difference when installed on an engine in the real world.
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From: south jersey. again
Actually, if you read other car forums, you'll see said "testimony". Dirty intake tracts, excessively dirty oil, gunked-up MAF screens.
Physics is pretty simple. Like LS6427 said, if you want more flow, you need a filter element with a more open media, which means you're going to allow more dirt in, which causes dirty oil, which is a direct cause of engine wear. Think about it - if you can go 50,000 miles without cleaning a K&N filter and it still flows near the same rate at that point as it did when it was brand new, where do you think all the dirt went? It's not embedded in the filter, or it wouldn't flow nearly as well.
Also, like he said, any possible power gains because of a filter swap are going to be lower than your inherent variance between dyno runs, with the exact same setup each time, ergo, while you can prove a K&N flows more than a paper filter (air, dust, and all), you can't empirically prove it makes any difference when installed on an engine in the real world.
Physics is pretty simple. Like LS6427 said, if you want more flow, you need a filter element with a more open media, which means you're going to allow more dirt in, which causes dirty oil, which is a direct cause of engine wear. Think about it - if you can go 50,000 miles without cleaning a K&N filter and it still flows near the same rate at that point as it did when it was brand new, where do you think all the dirt went? It's not embedded in the filter, or it wouldn't flow nearly as well.
Also, like he said, any possible power gains because of a filter swap are going to be lower than your inherent variance between dyno runs, with the exact same setup each time, ergo, while you can prove a K&N flows more than a paper filter (air, dust, and all), you can't empirically prove it makes any difference when installed on an engine in the real world.
if the open element has a oil to catch said dirt, you wont have dirty oil from dirt flowing past. i have never left any filter for 50,000 miles, i inspect it with every oil change, i dont get where and how you can talk about flow rates. some body actually did this legitimately and has proof. i did not buy my filter for hp gains, but if it does so be it. anything can change hp readings on a dyno, air temp humidity and so on. i do not have excess dirt on my maf or tb from dirt getting by i also dont have any sealing issues or water getting on my filter. i was only saying if he can prove his claims then do something about it.
Get a wix paper filter. It's very thick and seals super tight to the slp lid. That's what I have on mines right now. I looked at fram vs wix and the wix was thicker so I went with it to get the best possible seal to the lid.
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Launching!
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From: West Covina, So Cal
thanks guys. I appreciate it. I understand the topic is probably has been beaten to death, thus i appreciate your responses. 
I think i will go back to kragen this weekend and buy the wix paper filter.
I think i will go back to kragen this weekend and buy the wix paper filter.
I use a WIX paper filter. However, i've used K&N filters in the past. Only once did I have an issue and that was on a 91 rustang 5.0. MAF sensor went bad 2 weeks after installing it, I can't say the KN did it b/c the car was old and used. I have used them with no issue on a 2001 S10 extreme, 94 5.0 truck, 01 Olds Aurora, 91 TA GTA and a different mustang I had. After i started hanging around on this forum I realized that basically they aren't worth the risk. Don't buy into the KN horsepower hype. Use a paper filter, from what i've read they also fit better with an aftermarket lid than what the KN does.
if the open element has a oil to catch said dirt, you wont have dirty oil from dirt flowing past. i have never left any filter for 50,000 miles, i inspect it with every oil change, i dont get where and how you can talk about flow rates. some body actually did this legitimately and has proof. i did not buy my filter for hp gains, but if it does so be it. anything can change hp readings on a dyno, air temp humidity and so on. i do not have excess dirt on my maf or tb from dirt getting by i also dont have any sealing issues or water getting on my filter. i was only saying if he can prove his claims then do something about it.
The K&N on my truck was regularly cleaned and oiled, and I still had disgusting oil with that filter. Switched to a paper filter, and two oil changes later, it was coming out fine. Lots of other people have had the exact same experience.
"Did this legitimately and has proof". Of what? That K&Ns flow better? Sure they do, because they don't filter as well. Pretty simple stuff.
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From: south jersey. again
[QUOTE=Element;13699945]The oil gets pulled through the filter element, too - that's why you periodically have to reoil the filters. So now, instead of just dust, you have oily dust going into your engine.
The K&N on my truck was regularly cleaned and oiled, and I still had disgusting oil with that filter. Switched to a paper filter, and two oil changes later, it was coming out fine. Lots of other people have had the exact same experience.
"Did this legitimately and has proof". Of what? That K&Ns flow better? Sure they do, because they don't filter as well. Pretty simple stuff.[/QUOT
if you are having said issues along with everyone else, than you should file a suit with the better business bureau. do it and then k&n will have to back up there claims along with you and others that do the same. this will end this argument.
The K&N on my truck was regularly cleaned and oiled, and I still had disgusting oil with that filter. Switched to a paper filter, and two oil changes later, it was coming out fine. Lots of other people have had the exact same experience.
"Did this legitimately and has proof". Of what? That K&Ns flow better? Sure they do, because they don't filter as well. Pretty simple stuff.[/QUOT
if you are having said issues along with everyone else, than you should file a suit with the better business bureau. do it and then k&n will have to back up there claims along with you and others that do the same. this will end this argument.
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Launching!
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From: West Covina, So Cal
Is this normal?
Thanks,
Sid.
[QUOTE=jam01;13702328] I got rid of my K&N (along with that truck) years ago. On top of that, I have neither the time, money, nor desire to attempt to take K&N to court, which would be pretty pointless anyway, as they'd simply have to add a fine-text amendment to their warranty/warning paperwork that wouldn't make any difference to anyone, it'd simply be a legal ***-covering on K&Ns part.
Run whatever filter you like, I really don't give a good damn what sort of **** you wind up with in your oil, how long your bearings last, or how much better you think a K&N is over a paper filter. You have an issue with people posting anecdotal evidence about why K&N filters suck - irrelevant to the thread, and you haven't posted any empirical data on your part showing that K&N filters don't suck, merely made vague mention of some "tests" people did that obtained "legitimate data". If I were that detailed in the environmental engineering reports I write every day about prototype part failures, I'd get fired.
/hijack
The oil gets pulled through the filter element, too - that's why you periodically have to reoil the filters. So now, instead of just dust, you have oily dust going into your engine.
The K&N on my truck was regularly cleaned and oiled, and I still had disgusting oil with that filter. Switched to a paper filter, and two oil changes later, it was coming out fine. Lots of other people have had the exact same experience.
"Did this legitimately and has proof". Of what? That K&Ns flow better? Sure they do, because they don't filter as well. Pretty simple stuff.[/QUOT
if you are having said issues along with everyone else, than you should file a suit with the better business bureau. do it and then k&n will have to back up there claims along with you and others that do the same. this will end this argument.
The K&N on my truck was regularly cleaned and oiled, and I still had disgusting oil with that filter. Switched to a paper filter, and two oil changes later, it was coming out fine. Lots of other people have had the exact same experience.
"Did this legitimately and has proof". Of what? That K&Ns flow better? Sure they do, because they don't filter as well. Pretty simple stuff.[/QUOT
if you are having said issues along with everyone else, than you should file a suit with the better business bureau. do it and then k&n will have to back up there claims along with you and others that do the same. this will end this argument.
Run whatever filter you like, I really don't give a good damn what sort of **** you wind up with in your oil, how long your bearings last, or how much better you think a K&N is over a paper filter. You have an issue with people posting anecdotal evidence about why K&N filters suck - irrelevant to the thread, and you haven't posted any empirical data on your part showing that K&N filters don't suck, merely made vague mention of some "tests" people did that obtained "legitimate data". If I were that detailed in the environmental engineering reports I write every day about prototype part failures, I'd get fired.
/hijack
Ok, i bought one. I have a question though, it was THICK. When i tried to close my SLP lid, i notice that the parts of the orange seal is noticeable from the rear of the lid. My guess is, since it was so thick, the SLP lid could not cover the whole filter, or maybe that's the way the SLP lid is fitted?
Is this normal?
Thanks,
Sid.
Is this normal?
Thanks,
Sid.
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Launching!
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From: West Covina, So Cal
I changed the oil and drove the car about 300 miles while using K&N and notice that my oil is a little dark already. Hence the reason why I would really hate for an air leak.
I will check the oil color again tomorrow, and will drive the car for a thousand mile and will post the results back.
Also, I will check on the fitment tomorrow once i get more light.