Comparing Blackheart and TSP catback
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Comparing Blackheart and TSP catback I'm sure you've seen a few of my posts already, but long story short: my car is too loud and my Corsa has a broken baffle (not the original owner).
I think I've narrowed it down to the two newest options on the market, but I'm trying to weigh pros and cons. I'm open to suggestions on other brands though.
Also, keep in mind I'm trying to avoid any need to re-tune, and avoid any performance loss over what I have currently.
Price is a big difference between the two, but how about performance? And can anybody guess which is the quieter?
I do like the idea of the TSP's cutout option, and the bolt in nature.
Thanks for any input and help guys!
I think I've narrowed it down to the two newest options on the market, but I'm trying to weigh pros and cons. I'm open to suggestions on other brands though.
Also, keep in mind I'm trying to avoid any need to re-tune, and avoid any performance loss over what I have currently.
Price is a big difference between the two, but how about performance? And can anybody guess which is the quieter?
I do like the idea of the TSP's cutout option, and the bolt in nature.
Thanks for any input and help guys!
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From: Wichita KS / Rancho San Diego
One factor that's usually left out of the discussion of these systems is weight. IIRC, in the other thread, the weight of the Blackheart system is 80 lbs. My cobbed up catback is less than half that. How many rwhp does it take to motivate the extra weight of the Blackheart? I don't know the math, but I'd be cautious unless the sound of Blackheart (which has gotten very good reports) was the main goal for installing the system.
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One factor that's usually left out of the discussion of these systems is weight. IIRC, in the other thread, the weight of the Blackheart system is 80 lbs. My cobbed up catback is less than half that. How many rwhp does it take to motivate the extra weight of the Blackheart? I don't know the math, but I'd be cautious unless the sound of Blackheart (which has gotten very good reports) was the main goal for installing the system.
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If you are comparing the weight of the two systems, you would have to include the weight of your Y-pipe with the TSP cat-back system since the Hooker Blackheart dual exhaust systems include the inlet pipes that go all the way up to the header collectors.
The shipping weight of the Hooker system is 68 lbs. and I would guess there is 6-7 lbs. of packaging material included in that.
The shipping weight of the Hooker system is 68 lbs. and I would guess there is 6-7 lbs. of packaging material included in that.
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If you are comparing the weight of the two systems, you would have to include the weight of your Y-pipe with the TSP cat-back system since the Hooker Blackheart dual exhaust systems include the inlet pipes that go all the way up to the header collectors.
The shipping weight of the Hooker system is 68 lbs. and I would guess there is 6-7 lbs. of packaging material included in that.
The shipping weight of the Hooker system is 68 lbs. and I would guess there is 6-7 lbs. of packaging material included in that.
One question I have for you, since I have your attention: does the new adaptor kit make it easier, you think, to adapt to a non-hooker long tube?
And how does a reduction coupling compare to a 3" merge (as you get in y-pipe)?
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Good point too for others that come across this thread.
One question I have for you, since I have your attention: does the new adaptor kit make it easier, you think, to adapt to a non-hooker long tube?
And how does a reduction coupling compare to a 3" merge (as you get in y-pipe)?
One question I have for you, since I have your attention: does the new adaptor kit make it easier, you think, to adapt to a non-hooker long tube?
And how does a reduction coupling compare to a 3" merge (as you get in y-pipe)?
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I don't think the adapter kit is going work effectiively with any headers other than the new Hooker Blackheart long tubes coming shortly as their collector angularity is unique compared to other headers. I believe the second part of your question is regarding the flow characteristic differences between a stepped reducer and a tapered cone reducer. If so, a tapered cone can be worth a few extra horsepower if the available packaging envelope allows the use of long cone. We chose to use stepped reducers in this case to be able to provide the highest possible ground clearance available in a long tube, which would not have been possible using cone reducers.
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I was more interested in trying to compare how a 2.5" true dual would compare versus a 3" Y-pipe and cat back? I'm trying to think of exhaust as a fluid: and I'm having a hard time figuring out how a reduction pipe (to connect a 3" header collector to your 2.5" exhaust) compares to two 3" flows merging into a 3" pipe.
From a practical standpoint however, the 2.5" legs offer far better ground clearance everywhere under the car due to the packaging challenges presented by 4th-gens. Products in the Blackheart line are all designed to strike a balance of respectable performance, ground clearance and sound, so the choice to use 2.5" all the way to the header reducers was a logical choice to satisfy that need.
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From: Wichita KS / Rancho San Diego
If you are comparing the weight of the two systems, you would have to include the weight of your Y-pipe with the TSP cat-back system since the Hooker Blackheart dual exhaust systems include the inlet pipes that go all the way up to the header collectors. The shipping weight of the Hooker system is 68 lbs. and I would guess there is 6-7 lbs. of packaging material included in that.
From a practical standpoint however, the 2.5" legs offer far better ground clearance everywhere under the car due to the packaging challenges presented by 4th-gens. Products in the Blackheart line are all designed to strike a balance of respectable performance, ground clearance and sound, so the choice to use 2.5" all the way to the header reducers was a logical choice to satisfy that need.
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It's easy to flow a section of tubing or an individual exhaust component, but flow testing an entire exhaust system, especially one with a crossover, is not so easy to accomplish. Fortunately, it is easy to predict the performance threshold of a single diameter dual exhaust system as long as the mufflers are of a straight through design that present no loss in flow (i.e. the mufflers used in the Blackheart system). Using the 2.2CFM specification quoted previously and the many documented tests that have validated that a dual 2.5" diameter exhaust system can support a maximum of 450-475 HP effectively, it would lead me to more heavily scrutinize the ground clearance and sound characteristics of a dual 2.5" exhaust system I was interested in, if my engine was making less than 450HP. If it was making more than that, I would be more concerned with the potential trade-off in performance that I would have to accept in order to take advantage of any ground clearance, fitment and sound benefit the system in question would be providing.
a single 3" pipe has an area of 7.06 sq inches. a 2.5" pipe has an area of 4.90 sq inches. multiply that by two for the duals and you get 9.81 sq inches. theoretically, the 2.5" TD should out flow the 3" single pipe.
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True: but there are also more bends in the 2.5".... And I'm really curious how using a 3" -> 2.5" reducer compares to merging 2x3" pipes into one.
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From: Mississippi
If you running over 500 horse at the crank.... I wouldn't even consider a 2.5 inch exhaust. It's hard to be a good well 3 inch x pipe setup. More than half these guys on here with 500 or more horsepower are holding back they combo with a restricted aftermarket catback. Op how much horsepower you have at the crank?
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If you running over 500 horse at the crank.... I wouldn't even consider a 2.5 inch exhaust. It's hard to be a good well 3 inch x pipe setup. More than half these guys on here with 500 or more horsepower are holding back they combo with a restricted aftermarket catback. Op how much horsepower you have at the crank?
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However I hope this here information helps you out.
2 ½” Inlet/Outlet Dynomax Super Turbo 278 CFM
2 ½” Inlet/Outlet Ultraflow Bullet 512 CFM
2 ½” Inlet/Outlet Gibson Superflow 267 CFM
2 ½” Inlet/Outlet Flowmaster ( 2 Chamber) 249 CFM
2 ½” Inlet Outlet Flowmaster ( 3 Chamber) 229 CFM
2 ¼” Inlet/Outlet Thrush CVX 260 CFM
2 ½” Inlet/Outlet Maremount Cherry Bomb 298 CFM
2 ½” Inlet/Outlet Hooker Aero Chamber 324 CFM
2 ½” Inlet/Outlet Hooker Max Flow 521 CFM
2 ½” Inlet/Outlet Borla Turbo 373 CFM
2 1/2" Inlet/Outlet Magnaflow 284 CFM
2 ½” Inlet/Outlet Dynomax Super Turbo 278 CFM
2 ½” Inlet/Outlet Ultraflow Bullet 512 CFM
2 ½” Inlet/Outlet Gibson Superflow 267 CFM
2 ½” Inlet/Outlet Flowmaster ( 2 Chamber) 249 CFM
2 ½” Inlet Outlet Flowmaster ( 3 Chamber) 229 CFM
2 ¼” Inlet/Outlet Thrush CVX 260 CFM
2 ½” Inlet/Outlet Maremount Cherry Bomb 298 CFM
2 ½” Inlet/Outlet Hooker Aero Chamber 324 CFM
2 ½” Inlet/Outlet Hooker Max Flow 521 CFM
2 ½” Inlet/Outlet Borla Turbo 373 CFM
2 1/2" Inlet/Outlet Magnaflow 284 CFM
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From: Mississippi
Well as you can see the highest flowing muffler in 2.5 inch configuration even in dual mode wouldn't be enough to exhale the power. Your motor is over 500 horse for sure. You need to go dual 3 inch and don't look back!!