Heads and Intake or Procharger???
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From: Ohio
Well if the turbo is cheaper, then that is a no brainer! However, how much can I realistically expect to make, reliably, with a LS6 (243's and stock short block)?
I have no plans of ever putting an iron engine in my car so does this still make sense based on those things?
procharger has a lot of hidden costs too sounds like.
I have no plans of ever putting an iron engine in my car so does this still make sense based on those things?
procharger has a lot of hidden costs too sounds like.
Stock small rod gen 3 engines are good to around ~600whp reliably. The record for highest HP stock LS1 shortblock is over 800whp and he's using a STOCK cam. I'm not sure if he's using the gen 3 or gen 4 rods in that one, as some of the 04 GTO LS1s had better rods.
Long story short, your 500whp goal is easily do-able with a stock cam and boost. Personally, I'm a turbo *****. I would turbocharge my blender if it wasn't electric. Mainly because I'm a cheap *** and fabricate my own kits, so I end up with complete kits for cheap, like the $1800 one on my Nova, or the $800 twin setup on the 4.8 S10 (not counting fuel/tuning).
I've had prochargers before. My big block had an F1 on it. It was obscenely loud, but power was predictable. Nice linear boost increase. A turbo hits much harder in the mid-range. My Nova will break traction with ET Radials and go sideways from a 60 roll.
The choice is literally 3 things. Fitment, preference, cost.
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From: Houston, Texas
Because the added power you're going to get will be well worth the 2k. Or, you could keep the stock cam and heads and just bolt on a Procharger. Doing that will get you to your goal of 550 rwhp. There's just so much more room to grow with a Procharged setup. With a heads/cam/intake setup, you're going to be maxed out unless you go bigger cubic inches or add a power-adder.
Thread Starter
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From: Houston, Texas
Procharger is going to be an easier install, but there will be extra costs. It'll be louder, and make less mid-range (more traction) with a comparable top end to a turbo. Weigh your preferences.
Stock small rod gen 3 engines are good to around ~600whp reliably. The record for highest HP stock LS1 shortblock is over 800whp and he's using a STOCK cam. I'm not sure if he's using the gen 3 or gen 4 rods in that one, as some of the 04 GTO LS1s had better rods.
Long story short, your 500whp goal is easily do-able with a stock cam and boost. Personally, I'm a turbo *****. I would turbocharge my blender if it wasn't electric. Mainly because I'm a cheap *** and fabricate my own kits, so I end up with complete kits for cheap, like the $1800 one on my Nova, or the $800 twin setup on the 4.8 S10 (not counting fuel/tuning).
I've had prochargers before. My big block had an F1 on it. It was obscenely loud, but power was predictable. Nice linear boost increase. A turbo hits much harder in the mid-range. My Nova will break traction with ET Radials and go sideways from a 60 roll.
The choice is literally 3 things. Fitment, preference, cost.
Stock small rod gen 3 engines are good to around ~600whp reliably. The record for highest HP stock LS1 shortblock is over 800whp and he's using a STOCK cam. I'm not sure if he's using the gen 3 or gen 4 rods in that one, as some of the 04 GTO LS1s had better rods.
Long story short, your 500whp goal is easily do-able with a stock cam and boost. Personally, I'm a turbo *****. I would turbocharge my blender if it wasn't electric. Mainly because I'm a cheap *** and fabricate my own kits, so I end up with complete kits for cheap, like the $1800 one on my Nova, or the $800 twin setup on the 4.8 S10 (not counting fuel/tuning).
I've had prochargers before. My big block had an F1 on it. It was obscenely loud, but power was predictable. Nice linear boost increase. A turbo hits much harder in the mid-range. My Nova will break traction with ET Radials and go sideways from a 60 roll.
The choice is literally 3 things. Fitment, preference, cost.
Thread Starter
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From: Houston, Texas
https://ls1tech.com/forums/parts-cla...tercooler.html
Here is a used D-1SC kit with the SDCE bracket. Bob
Here is a used D-1SC kit with the SDCE bracket. Bob
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From: Ohio
Good advice! I was always of the opinion that turbo systems was out of the budget but after seeing that kit posted earlier, I am seriously considering it. Just don't know about my cam working well with it. I spec'd it to be be used on a max effort H/C/I/E set up. So a cammed LS6 should be able to do 550 RWHP easy on, say, 6-9 psi?
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From: Portland, Oregon
You said the engine in question is an LS6, correct? If so, it should have the GenIV rods, should it not? And hollow stem intake valves/sodium filled exhaust valves in the 243's? And an LS6 intake?
If it is an LS6, I would get a $450 custom cam spec'ed by Martin Smallwood on a Cam Motion core. And stick the ~$3500 turbo set-up mentioned earlier on it.
I really like the D1SC ProCharger and really plan to build something specifically for one, but I think piecing together a simple turbo set-up and getting the proper cam for it is closer to what you are looking for.
If it is an LS6, I would get a $450 custom cam spec'ed by Martin Smallwood on a Cam Motion core. And stick the ~$3500 turbo set-up mentioned earlier on it.
I really like the D1SC ProCharger and really plan to build something specifically for one, but I think piecing together a simple turbo set-up and getting the proper cam for it is closer to what you are looking for.
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From: Ohio
8's have been ran on a stock LS6 cam. I'm not even sure I would bother with a custom spec, especially not for 550whp. In this circumstance, a camshaft isn't going to make you produce anymore peak power. You'll have 550whp regardless of what cam you run. The camshaft will just dictate how the curve looks.
8's have been ran on a stock LS6 cam. I'm not even sure I would bother with a custom spec, especially not for 550whp. In this circumstance, a camshaft isn't going to make you produce anymore peak power. You'll have 550whp regardless of what cam you run. The camshaft will just dictate how the curve looks.
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From: Houston, Texas
I may as well change it while I am there. No harm no foul, I can sell mine.
The reviews on that turbo kit were terrible. People commenting about crap build quality and lengthy waiting periods for anyone to do anything about missing parts or parts that don't work. Also people were talking about how crappy their experience was dealing with the owner.
Doesn't exactly inspire confidence leaving my money over there.
Can Someone comment about how the motor will make power on a procharger vs N/A with a bad a** set of heads and Intake?
With FI I also worry about added maintenance and/or decreased reliability. Can anyone comment on that?
The reviews on that turbo kit were terrible. People commenting about crap build quality and lengthy waiting periods for anyone to do anything about missing parts or parts that don't work. Also people were talking about how crappy their experience was dealing with the owner.
Doesn't exactly inspire confidence leaving my money over there.
Can Someone comment about how the motor will make power on a procharger vs N/A with a bad a** set of heads and Intake?
With FI I also worry about added maintenance and/or decreased reliability. Can anyone comment on that?
I may as well change it while I am there. No harm no foul, I can sell mine.
The reviews on that turbo kit were terrible. People commenting about crap build quality and lengthy waiting periods for anyone to do anything about missing parts or parts that don't work. Also people were talking about how crappy their experience was dealing with the owner.
Doesn't exactly inspire confidence leaving my money over there.
Can Someone comment about how the motor will make power on a procharger vs N/A with a bad a** set of heads and Intake?
With FI I also worry about added maintenance and/or decreased reliability. Can anyone comment on that?
The reviews on that turbo kit were terrible. People commenting about crap build quality and lengthy waiting periods for anyone to do anything about missing parts or parts that don't work. Also people were talking about how crappy their experience was dealing with the owner.
Doesn't exactly inspire confidence leaving my money over there.
Can Someone comment about how the motor will make power on a procharger vs N/A with a bad a** set of heads and Intake?
With FI I also worry about added maintenance and/or decreased reliability. Can anyone comment on that?
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https://brutespeed.com/ Link to website
ATI ProCharger and Moser Sales 260 672-2076
PM's disabled, please e-mail me
E-mail: brutespeed@gmail.comob@brutespeed.com
https://brutespeed.com/ Link to website
Thread Starter
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From: Houston, Texas
8 psi of boost on an LS1 will normally get you around 140 extra rwhp. You can still take your car on trips and get roughly the same fuel mileage as you do now. With a good tune you shouldn't have any problems with it. To get an extra 140 rwhp with a heads and cam package would get you a combo that is basically all top end power, and drivability would suffer. Bob
Also, I have heard (I don't take what I hear as the Gospel but I wanted to ask) that the procharger is also all top end power. How does the Procharger's power band compare if that is so. Would it boost the midrange also?
So tell me this, if I were to get a FAST 102 and use it regardless would that be the cause of my drivability issues along with a large MAF? I see guys all the time running kits you sell with that larger manifold. Is the manifold as effective with one of your kits?
Also, I have heard (I don't take what I hear as the Gospel but I wanted to ask) that the procharger is also all top end power. How does the Procharger's power band compare if that is so. Would it boost the midrange also?
Also, I have heard (I don't take what I hear as the Gospel but I wanted to ask) that the procharger is also all top end power. How does the Procharger's power band compare if that is so. Would it boost the midrange also?
http://shop.brutespeed.com/Brute-Spe...d-Camshaft.htm
Take a look at this link, this engine is an LS2/402 with a FAST 92 intake manifold. The ProCharger certainly picks up the midrange as can be seen on the graph. Thanks. Bob
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ATI ProCharger and Moser Sales 260 672-2076
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E-mail: brutespeed@gmail.comob@brutespeed.com
https://brutespeed.com/ Link to website
ATI ProCharger and Moser Sales 260 672-2076
PM's disabled, please e-mail me
E-mail: brutespeed@gmail.comob@brutespeed.com
https://brutespeed.com/ Link to website
So tell me this, if I were to get a FAST 102 and use it regardless would that be the cause of my drivability issues along with a large MAF? I see guys all the time running kits you sell with that larger manifold. Is the manifold as effective with one of your kits?
Also, I have heard (I don't take what I hear as the Gospel but I wanted to ask) that the procharger is also all top end power. How does the Procharger's power band compare if that is so. Would it boost the midrange also?
Also, I have heard (I don't take what I hear as the Gospel but I wanted to ask) that the procharger is also all top end power. How does the Procharger's power band compare if that is so. Would it boost the midrange also?
Once you add up all the little things that come with forced induction, it is clearly much more expensive. not sure where you got that quote on those heads, but I did Heads/Cam/Intake for much less then that...and even lower after I sold my stock stuff. I think I am around 3500.00 or so for TEA 243 LS6 heads, Ported Fast 92/92, and the cam with all the supporting valve train, timing chain, oil pump, gaskets, fluids, power bond pulley, pulley install tool...etc.
I have had a Procharged car in the past and the stock piston rings did not like 8 psi for very long. Some have had better luck then others, but I would factor in the cost of a forged short block too if you go FI. Or just sell your LS6 and buy 3-4 5.3 engines.
I have had a Procharged car in the past and the stock piston rings did not like 8 psi for very long. Some have had better luck then others, but I would factor in the cost of a forged short block too if you go FI. Or just sell your LS6 and buy 3-4 5.3 engines.
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From: Ohio
Once you add up all the little things that come with forced induction, it is clearly much more expensive. not sure where you got that quote on those heads, but I did Heads/Cam/Intake for much less then that...and even lower after I sold my stock stuff. I think I am around 3500.00 or so for TEA 243 LS6 heads, Ported Fast 92/92, and the cam with all the supporting valve train, timing chain, oil pump, gaskets, fluids, power bond pulley, pulley install tool...etc.
I have had a Procharged car in the past and the stock piston rings did not like 8 psi for very long. Some have had better luck then others, but I would factor in the cost of a forged short block too if you go FI. Or just sell your LS6 and buy 3-4 5.3 engines.
I have had a Procharged car in the past and the stock piston rings did not like 8 psi for very long. Some have had better luck then others, but I would factor in the cost of a forged short block too if you go FI. Or just sell your LS6 and buy 3-4 5.3 engines.
24 PSI of boost on pump gas and I'm making a LOT more than his 500whp goal. Going on my 2nd year without a single hiccup, and I do NOT take it easy on this car.
I personally heads head/intake a complete waste of money when going forced induction. You can cram as much air in there as you want. 7's have been ran on unported cathedral heads and stock intakes. There are half a dozen cars knocking on 7's with a stock bottom end right now (and one dragster that did it without even pushing it).
Stop trying to spend more money than you have to and either get the Procharger or a turbo setup...
I run a stock 5.3 long block, stock truck intake, stock throttle body... etc.
24 PSI of boost on pump gas and I'm making a LOT more than his 500whp goal. Going on my 2nd year without a single hiccup, and I do NOT take it easy on this car.
I personally heads head/intake a complete waste of money when going forced induction. You can cram as much air in there as you want. 7's have been ran on unported cathedral heads and stock intakes. There are half a dozen cars knocking on 7's with a stock bottom end right now (and one dragster that did it without even pushing it).
Stop trying to spend more money than you have to and either get the Procharger or a turbo setup...
24 PSI of boost on pump gas and I'm making a LOT more than his 500whp goal. Going on my 2nd year without a single hiccup, and I do NOT take it easy on this car.
I personally heads head/intake a complete waste of money when going forced induction. You can cram as much air in there as you want. 7's have been ran on unported cathedral heads and stock intakes. There are half a dozen cars knocking on 7's with a stock bottom end right now (and one dragster that did it without even pushing it).
Stop trying to spend more money than you have to and either get the Procharger or a turbo setup...
Thread Starter
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From: Houston, Texas
So maybe that's the deal breaker. I don't want an iron engine or truck motor. My tuner had a C6z with a RHS aluminum block, idk what heads, and a cam. Made over 1k ho to the tires with a procharger and TR6060. Not an iron fan as I'll be road racing and don't need extra nose weight or decreased heat dissipation.
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From: Ohio
So maybe that's the deal breaker. I don't want an iron engine or truck motor. My tuner had a C6z with a RHS aluminum block, idk what heads, and a cam. Made over 1k ho to the tires with a procharger and TR6060. Not an iron fan as I'll be road racing and don't need extra nose weight or decreased heat dissipation.
FYI, you can get the truck engines in aluminum. Mine is aluminum.
So maybe that's the deal breaker. I don't want an iron engine or truck motor. My tuner had a C6z with a RHS aluminum block, idk what heads, and a cam. Made over 1k ho to the tires with a procharger and TR6060. Not an iron fan as I'll be road racing and don't need extra nose weight or decreased heat dissipation.