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Chad, thank you for providing the Super Vic for testing. It would be fantastic if you and Tony M have an opportunity to discuss tweaking the Super Vic. I will hold the Super Vic until you let me know.
StealthFormula, the TPiS/LPE 90mm LS6 intake in the flow test is not ported. It's the old LS6 that was on my 99TA for 15 years. The only clean up was me washing the oil out of it before flow testing it stock a few months ago. I have two of the 90mm LS6 intakes.
My 91 RS has the Peak Performance radical ported TPIS/LPE 90mm LS6. We were trying to get the endless LSXRT driveability issues sorted out and dyno tested a FAST LSX 92, the LSXRT and the ported LS6 90. We were all stunned when the ported LS6 90 made 2hp more peak and had best area under the curve hp & tq on small cam 383 stroker in the RS. Cured all of the drive ability issues too. The trick LS6 90 turned out to be ideal for the RS.
Tony Mamo I would definitely like to discuss a possible flow test and getting an intake ported at some point. The same GMPP LS6/243 heads will be available. I need to wrap current projec first. My 99 TA was stolen, then recovered with the new engine damaged. Car is back together now thanks to Norris Motorsports however the dyno tune has to be done.
Guys PM or email me (even better) about any specific work your interested in
99 Black Bird T/A....if you want hit me up in a few weeks when I have my stock of 102's replenished and I will mail one to you for flow testing if your still set up to do so.
Like I said that will be very interesting but making power via intake manifolds is alot more complicated than just looking at flow numbers. Trust me I learned that lesson the hard way as an intake designer for AFR years ago. Alot of designs that looked promising on the bench didnt amount to much on the dyno.....very different animal than cylinder heads which IMO were much more predictable if I knew how large a runner, valve sizes, and the flow numbers across the curve....I could almost pick the winner every time going into a round of cylinder head testing with that info. With intake manifolds you couldn't even hit one out of two that way.....much more "black magic" happening there related to runner length, plenum design, runner taper etc. I had a good laugh with Rick Roberts who handled alot of the manifold designs at Edelbrock related to this exact situation!
Clearly I am not trying to discredit the fact my ported MSD is at the top of the heap here in this testing....just trying to share information that selecting a proper manifold for your particular application purely based on flow is probably only half the story. There are many customers I help and recommend my ported FAST over my ported MSD for just that reason....the application dictates that the FAST would likely be a better choice for them versus the MSD which works better only upstairs but does so in dramatic fashion carrying the power curve another 4-500 RPM.
This is a great thread for those interested in learning more and how manifold design is usually a trade off of sorts in the actual final power (and torque) curve of the engine. Its a test of my ported FAST versus my ported MSD on the same engine swapped right on the dyno
Good stuff guys.....I would post more but Im out of my mind busy right now running my business this time of year.....that's why I haven't been as active on the forums lately
Not wanting to quote your whole post but I think it is appreciated that even though you kind of won the metric you still stay honest about how things work together. I am positive runner lengths vs cam events is a huge piece of the puzzle that is hard to measure
Instead of reading all of this how did the fast 102 do? Does a fast 102 go good with a procharged forged LS6 ? Its been awhile since I have studied intakes?
I apologize for missing out on the testing and not sending in the intakes. Had alot going on lately plus a death in the family and trying to get things straightened out AND selling the ported dorman truck intake and bbk tb to a customer with an engine build.
BUT i have another one soon, get it all worked up, and get it in OPs hands for testing later on. The dorman is done upgraded to 2.0 status just didnt have the time to get it sent like i wanted.
I apologize for missing out on the testing and not sending in the intakes. Had alot going on lately plus a death in the family and trying to get things straightened out AND selling the ported dorman truck intake and bbk tb to a customer with an engine build.
BUT i have another one soon, get it all worked up, and get it in OPs hands for testing later on. The dorman is done upgraded to 2.0 status just didnt have the time to get it sent like i wanted.
Great thread STILL and keep on rockin.
We can be patient for good info.
Sorry to hear of the loss of a family member!
Instead of reading all of this how did the fast 102 do? Does a fast 102 go good with a procharged forged LS6 ? Its been awhile since I have studied intakes?
I've not tested a Fast LSXR 102 yet. Hopefully in a few weeks or a month or with Tony Mamo 's help we will get to test one.
The Fast LSXRT 102 did well in flow testing. It was absolutely horrible on my 383 LS1 with poor drive ability.
How much boost do you want to run? Something like the BBK should be able to withstand the most boost and not leak. I'm not really up to speed on forced induction.
WS6 Store - I'm sorry to hear of the family member passing my thoughts are with you.
There will be another test and hopefully we can work out the details and test the ported Dorman's by WS6 Store at some point soon.
I have to again express my thanks to Brett & Jim of Land Speed Cylinder Heads for making these tests possible
I dyno'd 400 rwhp with TSP stage 1 243 heads, BTR stage 2 cam, Dorman LS2 intake and 92mm TB. Seems the DLS2 out of the box is a pretty decent budget intake at half the price of a Fast 92. We think the dyno was reading slightly low that day.
Very interesting. I had spoken to my tuner about a replacing my stock LS6 manifold with a 90mm LS6 for my ported heads/ small cam street LS1 as I am interested in low to mid range and doubt I would get value out of a FAST 92 (very expensive in my country) but they suggested it wouldn't be worth it.
Very interesting. I had spoken to my tuner about a replacing my stock LS6 manifold with a 90mm LS6 for my ported heads/ small cam street LS1 as I am interested in low to mid range and doubt I would get value out of a FAST 92 (very expensive in my country) but they suggested it wouldn't be worth it.
Pulse Red,
My 91 RS Camaro has a 383 LS1 with TEA Stage 2.5 LS6 heads a small 229/229 cam .578 lift, 1 7/8 inch headers. In dyno testing a ported LS6 90mm had the best torque curve and was better by 2 horsepower peak over a Fast 102 LSXRT and by 3 hp over a Fast 90mm on my car's set up. I'm sure with a bigger cam and more rpm the fast intakes would do better.
My cam is an obsolete one from Morgan Motorsports from back in 2001. It was called an MMS 229v2.1 on a 114 LSA.. Way back in 2001 it was one of the few Cams that could consistently hit 440 -4445 wheel hp with an LS6 intake with a good set of heads. Cars were generally intake limited back then. My RS made 465 wheel hp. Even with better heads and headers on my car than what was around in 2001 to get benefits the car needed an intake that out flowed a stock LS6. The LS6 90 gain in air flow looks about right to support 10 to 15 hp or so more than a stock LS6 in my opinion.
The tuner said the LS6 90 was much easier to tune for drive ability on my 91 RS than either fast intake. The shop owner who drove all three intakes on my car on the street agreed the drive ability of the LS 90 was nearly stock with a good tune.
Lingenfelter did tests with the LS6 90 on a 427 LS motor, the LS6 90 gave gains over the LS6 and LS2 factory intakes but didn't give the full gains that a Fast 90mm intake did. The 427 had more cam and everything else than my set up. This information is from a phone call I had with an LPE rep many years ago.
If you engine is mild or medium build for $350 plus shipping the LS6 90 ( if you have and LS6 intake to send ) for the snout can a great mod for the cost. Lingenfelter took just a couple of weeks to do the one in the test. Shipping turn time was very good.
Last edited by 99 Black Bird T/A; 05-26-2018 at 10:35 AM.
My 91 RS Camaro has a 383 LS1 with TEA Stage 2.5 LS6 heads a small 229/229 cam .578 lift, 1 7/8 inch headers. In dyno testing a ported LS6 90mm had the best torque curve and was better by 2 horsepower peak over a Fast 102 LSXRT and by 3 hp over a Fast 90mm on my car's set up. I'm sure with a bigger cam and more rpm the fast intakes would do better.
My cam is an obsolete one from Morgan Motorsports from back in 2001. It was called an MMS 229v2.1 on a 114 LSA.. Way back in 2001 it was one of the few Cams that could consistently hit 440 -4445 wheel hp with an LS6 intake with a good set of heads. Cars were generally intake limited back then. My RS made 465 wheel hp. Even with better heads and headers on my car than what was around in 2001 to get benefits the car needed an intake that out flowed a stock LS6. The LS6 90 gain in air flow looks about right to support 10 to 15 hp or so more than a stock LS6 in my opinion.
The tuner said the LS6 90 was much easier to tune for drive ability on my 91 RS than either fast intake. The shop owner who drove all three intakes on my car on the street agreed the drive ability of the LS 90 was nearly stock with a good tune.
Lingenfelter did tests with the LS6 90 on a 427 LS motor, the LS6 90 gave gains over the LS6 and LS2 factory intakes but didn't give the full gains that a Fast 90mm intake did. The 427 had more cam and everything else than my set up. This information is from a phone call I had with an LPE rep many years ago.
If you engine is mild or medium build for $350 plus shipping the LS6 90 ( if you have and LS6 intake to send ) for the snout can a great mod for the cost. Lingenfelter took just a couple of weeks to do the one in the test. Shipping turn time was very good.
Thankyou kindly for this information 99 Black Bird T/A. It certainly seems a great option. I looked at this intake for my previous setup but my current cam is very mild, 218/226 .595/.587 116. Heads are ported 241 and the exhaust twin 2.5" with short extractors. The drivability would be exactly what I would chase but the concern being this combo is too mild now for the intake to achieve the 10-15 hp increase.
Being in Australia I would need to purchase outright, this would be the one I would try to import: https://www.tpis.com/parts/view/39 probably around $1400 AU delivered to me assuming they ship internationally. If not I would have to try and get one made locally.
Thankyou kindly for this information 99 Black Bird T/A. It certainly seems a great option. I looked at this intake for my previous setup but my current cam is very mild, 218/226 .595/.587 116. Heads are ported 241 and the exhaust twin 2.5" with short extractors. The drivability would be exactly what I would chase but the concern being this combo is too mild now for the intake to achieve the 10-15 hp increase.
Being in Australia I would need to purchase outright, this would be the one I would try to import: https://www.tpis.com/parts/view/39 probably around $1400 AU delivered to me assuming they ship internationally. If not I would have to try and get one made locally.
You might be able to find the Dorman LS2 intake for less.
Pulse Red, I don't think the $1400 would be worth the cost. As mentioned the Dorman LS2 might work and help. How much hood clearance does your car have? I have a TBSS intake with fuel lines and injectors that needs a good home. The TBSS will outperform a stock LS6. I can measure the TBSS if you think it might fit and will make you a very fair deal on it if your interested in it. The TBSS is fairly tall.
Pulse Red, I don't think the $1400 would be worth the cost. As mentioned the Dorman LS2 might work and help. How much hood clearance does your car have? I have a TBSS intake with fuel lines and injectors that needs a good home. The TBSS will outperform a stock LS6. I can measure the TBSS if you think it might fit and will make you a very fair deal on it if your interested in it. The TBSS is fairly tall.
Thanks for the feedback, I think you're right, adding the actual TB on top of that $1400 and it becomes an expensive exercise. The FAST combo is even more expensive for me in Australia, I think that's partly why very few people use them here.
Also thank you for the kind offer of TBSS manifold, I have looked into this before and unfortunately this would not fit my car.
05-23-2018, 10:14 PM
enough said. 
