FAST 102 Stock LS1
03-30-2017, 11:27 PM
#42
There's a reason the most active thread on the forum is FI now. Everyone getting into these cars or swapping them into everything and what do they do? Turbo.
The Gen III platform isn't as awesome as the Gen IV... but you know what people do? And what I recommend to people? Sell you stock motor. Grab an L33 5.3L from an 05-06 truck... since it's aluminum Gen III block with Gen IV internals. Throw a 76mm turbo on it. And make 800rwhp reliably.
Oh and it drives like a stock truck motor. With 800rwhp.
I have a thread where I talk through the options... 408+nitrous, D1+H/C, or a 5.3L+Turbo. The 5.3L+Turbo will run the hardest and make the most power. And drive the best. And it costs the least.
And the on/off nature of turbos... look at the options now. How you can set the exhaust housing, exducer, etc. You can make them spool like a madman. The added costs from turbos are the fuel system and drivetrain.
The Gen III platform isn't as awesome as the Gen IV... but you know what people do? And what I recommend to people? Sell you stock motor. Grab an L33 5.3L from an 05-06 truck... since it's aluminum Gen III block with Gen IV internals. Throw a 76mm turbo on it. And make 800rwhp reliably.
Oh and it drives like a stock truck motor. With 800rwhp.
I have a thread where I talk through the options... 408+nitrous, D1+H/C, or a 5.3L+Turbo. The 5.3L+Turbo will run the hardest and make the most power. And drive the best. And it costs the least.
And the on/off nature of turbos... look at the options now. How you can set the exhaust housing, exducer, etc. You can make them spool like a madman. The added costs from turbos are the fuel system and drivetrain.
03-31-2017, 07:26 AM
#43
I don't know, seems all the manufacturers are going that way last I looked too? Maybe because they allow for drivability without the harshness of a cam, emissions compliance, and power from a smaller more efficient package... which is good for both power and gas mileage?
How many people mod their cars and sell them? I've been around long enough to have seen it happen more times than I can count. Why? Because owning a modded car isn't as fun as the thought of owning a modded car...
How many people mod their cars and sell them? I've been around long enough to have seen it happen more times than I can count. Why? Because owning a modded car isn't as fun as the thought of owning a modded car...
03-31-2017, 07:40 AM
#44
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I don't know, seems all the manufacturers are going that way last I looked too? Maybe because they allow for drivability without the harshness of a cam, emissions compliance, and power from a smaller more efficient package... which is good for both power and gas mileage?
How many people mod their cars and sell them? I've been around long enough to have seen it happen more times than I can count. Why? Because owning a modded car isn't as fun as the thought of owning a modded car...
How many people mod their cars and sell them? I've been around long enough to have seen it happen more times than I can count. Why? Because owning a modded car isn't as fun as the thought of owning a modded car...
I've always looked at what I want my final result to be. My car runs 10s on motor with an LS1, and it looks stock other then the slicks. Lets take away the how and just say the goal, I'd like to run maybe a 9.0 one day. Thats plenty fast enough for me. Now when I weigh the options, what would make me most happy? A big cube NA motor no question (willing to run a small shot to make my ET goal). Turbo would do it and probably be the cheapest. So, its just a matter of A vs B. Is it worth the extra expense to have the combo you want vs the one that reaches your goal the cheapest, well thats a conversation you and your wallet must have.
03-31-2017, 08:26 AM
#45
I qualified that statement around emissions and CAFE standards too. So I'm not twisting the argument. But saying that when manufacturers build cars, they are doing so to meet emissions and mileage requirements but continue to push more and more performance out of the cars.
So, the way technology has evolved, your car doesn't have to stink like unburnt fuel and get 13mpg to run 9s. And I know people like the idea of a raw race car. Everyone does at some point. Then you have to live with it. And some people like it. Many don't.
But if ultimate performance on a track is the goal and you have a set budget (as many of us do), then you look for the most bang for the buck in a way that fits your driving preference. I'd definitely run a bigger cam in Automatic drag car vs. a road race M6.
But anyway, the original point of the thread was the FAST 102 on a stock LS1. And it is a wallet discussion. For the money per $ the FAST is one of the worst mods for the car. There are other options to spend money if you want to go faster. And there's lots of ways to go fast. And it has sort of devolved into an NA vs FI thread because that's naturally the way a money per HP discussion typically goes. And it's hard to make an argument against a turbo solely on money. Or Nitrous. Quite honestly, if you could sell the FAST 102 for $700-800 and buy a base Nitrous kit, that's the best bang for the buck. But it's a narrow performance window. It's not all the time. And nitrous has it's own set of gremlins.
So, the way technology has evolved, your car doesn't have to stink like unburnt fuel and get 13mpg to run 9s. And I know people like the idea of a raw race car. Everyone does at some point. Then you have to live with it. And some people like it. Many don't.
But if ultimate performance on a track is the goal and you have a set budget (as many of us do), then you look for the most bang for the buck in a way that fits your driving preference. I'd definitely run a bigger cam in Automatic drag car vs. a road race M6.
But anyway, the original point of the thread was the FAST 102 on a stock LS1. And it is a wallet discussion. For the money per $ the FAST is one of the worst mods for the car. There are other options to spend money if you want to go faster. And there's lots of ways to go fast. And it has sort of devolved into an NA vs FI thread because that's naturally the way a money per HP discussion typically goes. And it's hard to make an argument against a turbo solely on money. Or Nitrous. Quite honestly, if you could sell the FAST 102 for $700-800 and buy a base Nitrous kit, that's the best bang for the buck. But it's a narrow performance window. It's not all the time. And nitrous has it's own set of gremlins.
Last edited by JakeFusion; 03-31-2017 at 08:32 AM.
03-31-2017, 08:31 AM
#46
I don't know, seems all the manufacturers are going that way last I looked too? Maybe because they allow for drivability without the harshness of a cam, emissions compliance, and power from a smaller more efficient package... which is good for both power and gas mileage?
How many people mod their cars and sell them? I've been around long enough to have seen it happen more times than I can count. Why? Because owning a modded car isn't as fun as the thought of owning a modded car...
How many people mod their cars and sell them? I've been around long enough to have seen it happen more times than I can count. Why? Because owning a modded car isn't as fun as the thought of owning a modded car...
I have been down the road of forced induction and it's not more reliable then NA. A Fbody is already cramped enough under the hood as it is. I would only consider Turbo for a track car. Procharger has came a long way since the early days and they are the most reliable form of FI imo. Even then I had plenty of issues to sort out. It's definitely not a bolt-on 200hp and let it eat solution as it has been marketed.
The auto manufacturers are gravitating to FI because of new emission complience standards. Small displacement turbo is very low emissions compared to bigger displacement NA. However there is more maintenance involved. Carbon cleaning the top end of the engine regularly is one example.
In the end it's different strokes for different folks. I still think a mild H/C/I setup with a small shot is the most reliable and easiest setup to maintain setup, just not the most powerful. #goals
03-31-2017, 09:07 AM
#47
I'm not saying turbos are bad, in fact they are insanely impressive. But they are by no means the answer for all applications. I've spent enough on my car to have gone turbo long ago, but I prefer it being n/a. I'm slower for it but I'm also ok with that.
03-31-2017, 10:22 AM
#49
I want ten of every combo imaginable, NA, turbo, blower, and N2O. It's simply a matter of what each person wants most and there budget. This argument is so played out, it is pathetic. OP, yes the Fast will give you gains now and later. If you only have time in it, keep it. You will eventually want one for something anyway.
03-31-2017, 11:08 AM
#51
As soon as I typed my reply I knew that would be the reply I got. I assure you it is not the case. Some of the vehicles in question were even stock applications. Arguing wasn't my point, was just offering an opinion to answer your question as to why people will still buy parts for n/a applications instead of just buying a turbo kit.
I'm not saying turbos are bad, in fact they are insanely impressive. But they are by no means the answer for all applications. I've spent enough on my car to have gone turbo long ago, but I prefer it being n/a. I'm slower for it but I'm also ok with that.
I'm not saying turbos are bad, in fact they are insanely impressive. But they are by no means the answer for all applications. I've spent enough on my car to have gone turbo long ago, but I prefer it being n/a. I'm slower for it but I'm also ok with that.
03-31-2017, 11:38 AM
#52
I can see both sides here.
Not sure what a "used" Fast sells for these days but I am not sure he could get over $800 since new ones are around $900 or less if on sale.
What sucks is the high cost of a tb needed to use it. Everyone thinks their 90mm tb are worth their weight in gold. If you can find a good tb for under $200 I'd vote run the intake.
If you can't find a good deal on a 90mm tb then I'd be in the sell it and put the money towards something else camp.
It says you have a ls1 engine but doesn't way what year or what current intake you have. If you have a ls1 intake the Fast will be worth some noticeable power. If you already have the ls6 intake you will still gain some but not much on the stock cam.
Not sure what a "used" Fast sells for these days but I am not sure he could get over $800 since new ones are around $900 or less if on sale.
What sucks is the high cost of a tb needed to use it. Everyone thinks their 90mm tb are worth their weight in gold. If you can find a good tb for under $200 I'd vote run the intake.
If you can't find a good deal on a 90mm tb then I'd be in the sell it and put the money towards something else camp.
It says you have a ls1 engine but doesn't way what year or what current intake you have. If you have a ls1 intake the Fast will be worth some noticeable power. If you already have the ls6 intake you will still gain some but not much on the stock cam.
my vote is cam. IMO, the FAST is a over priced piece of plastic and while it does have its benefits they have had the market cornered for nearly 15 years and have made bank on that. i had a ls6 car with a FMS F13 cam on a 111 lsa, stock intake w/ ported TB and stock MAF, stock injectors, stock 241 heads, LT's and TD's and put 410 @ the wheels. thats no cam to sneeze at. thats around 470 hp at the crank.
03-31-2017, 12:33 PM
#53
WARR seems to be getting alot of good reviews for the price point and even Holley has a the Sniper TB which is not very much more then the WARR if you want 'Brand name'.
my vote is cam. IMO, the FAST is a over priced piece of plastic and while it does have its benefits they have had the market cornered for nearly 15 years and have made bank on that. i had a ls6 car with a FMS F13 cam on a 111 lsa, stock intake w/ ported TB and stock MAF, stock injectors, stock 241 heads, LT's and TD's and put 410 @ the wheels. thats no cam to sneeze at. thats around 470 hp at the crank.
my vote is cam. IMO, the FAST is a over priced piece of plastic and while it does have its benefits they have had the market cornered for nearly 15 years and have made bank on that. i had a ls6 car with a FMS F13 cam on a 111 lsa, stock intake w/ ported TB and stock MAF, stock injectors, stock 241 heads, LT's and TD's and put 410 @ the wheels. thats no cam to sneeze at. thats around 470 hp at the crank.
03-31-2017, 05:45 PM
#54
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let's not lose sight here. The OP posted in the thread starter that he ALREADY HAS the intake as a quid pro quo. He's not spending a ton of money getting it for a stock motor. He's asking about installing it as a somewhat free mod.
That was his question.
That was his question.
04-01-2017, 10:17 AM
#57
I with the camp that said....sell the FAST and buy the H/C. Granted it is more work. Yes there are different ways to make power and it either cheaper or more expetive but the fact remains.....The man wanted to know if it's worth doing now. The answer is....yes but you would be better off and most people think H/C is the first step
04-01-2017, 04:33 PM
#58
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Obviously I'm in the minority here but oh well. My logic is this -- sell the fast, buy HC, exhaust, etc, get meh dyno results, buy fast 102?
I'd say bolt it on, do headers next.
Then, when you do HC, it'll shine.
To each their own
I'd say bolt it on, do headers next.
Then, when you do HC, it'll shine.
To each their own
