Help me plan my Top End Package
09-28-2017, 11:19 AM
#21
TECH Senior Member
I think you have to get over the idea that you will find exactly what you need/want in a ready-made "package". Every situation, and everybody, is different. YOU have to, with help possibly, figure out what YOUR package should be for what YOU want your car to be/do. Talk with the guys at WS6store about your needs, and they will help you put together the package that works for YOU. And it will be fun!
09-28-2017, 11:22 AM
#22
Going with MMS for all their custom this and that including the time frame is far off from most budget builds though. Every vehicle is different which is why i really dont like package kits and would rather put them together for the individual, but adding all the extra parts necessary for the swap makes it alot easier esp if you are very used to working on the platform.
You can make good power on a budget but lately its either stock parts or blow the budget up builds. There can be a happy medium, but normally people pull the trigger and order parts then ask questions about them afterward.
Tsp has some very good aftermarket castings that have been updated vs how they used to be in an affordable range. TFS is still the gold standard imo. Not long ago their 220 as casts blew up over tech and the ls scene. They had their internet heyday so to speak but are still very solid performers on a budget with room to grow. Now DART has a few more options but arent proven yet also. Will be interesting to see what goes on with them.
You can make good power on a budget but lately its either stock parts or blow the budget up builds. There can be a happy medium, but normally people pull the trigger and order parts then ask questions about them afterward.
Tsp has some very good aftermarket castings that have been updated vs how they used to be in an affordable range. TFS is still the gold standard imo. Not long ago their 220 as casts blew up over tech and the ls scene. They had their internet heyday so to speak but are still very solid performers on a budget with room to grow. Now DART has a few more options but arent proven yet also. Will be interesting to see what goes on with them.
09-28-2017, 11:51 AM
#23
Moderator
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: My own internal universe
Posts: 10,446
Received 1,838 Likes
on
1,146 Posts
100% agree on package kits. It should be tailored to the individual. OP, no matter what you do pick a vendor and work with them. Piecemealing one together results in disappointment typically.
Idk about long deliveries with Mamo. From the time I ordered parts to the time I finished assembly was four weeks.
Idk about long deliveries with Mamo. From the time I ordered parts to the time I finished assembly was four weeks.
09-28-2017, 12:13 PM
#25
TECH Senior Member
09-28-2017, 02:06 PM
#26
To give you a general idea of what you're going to need to reach your goal read this. I haven't seen what Chris1313 did as the others mentioned but it sounds like it would be a good read.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...heads-cam.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...heads-cam.html
09-28-2017, 05:13 PM
#27
Originally Posted by Darth_V8r
After doing a "budget build" and hating it and then going through Tony, I would argue that the expensive build was the cheaper build, because I only had to build it once. Nothing like going through three sets of heads because it's "cheap".
500 RWHP is not cheap or easy. If it was, it wouldn't be hand picking CHRS1313 as an example - and his wasn't cheap either
500 RWHP is not cheap or easy. If it was, it wouldn't be hand picking CHRS1313 as an example - and his wasn't cheap either
09-28-2017, 06:26 PM
#28
Moderator
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: My own internal universe
Posts: 10,446
Received 1,838 Likes
on
1,146 Posts
Stock 853's - Tried cam only (plus headers, Y pipe, BBK intake)
Ported 853 - And it would require serious effort to do worse than these were done.
799's with a valve job, 2.02 intake valve - and on this one discovered the used cam I grabbed was 9 degrees off (advanced). it was torquey as a **** until about 4500 RPM and then fell off fast. It would only take 19 degrees timing.
Then got a cam motion cam and cloyes timing set to replace it - better specs AND not ground wrong (yay) which got me to 370 HP. I still have these heads in my garage BTW. Picked them up used
Then, straight to mamo (cause I realized this incremental build **** was going nowhere fast along with the money I thought I was saving), only change was the heads, fast102 intake, open headers plus 18" extensions, hit 470, and then I just kept trying **** from there.
I literally did not get a single budget part that performed like I thought it would. Add all the fluids and gaskets I went through also to the cost of parts that are now sitting unused in my garage...
Ported 853 - And it would require serious effort to do worse than these were done.
799's with a valve job, 2.02 intake valve - and on this one discovered the used cam I grabbed was 9 degrees off (advanced). it was torquey as a **** until about 4500 RPM and then fell off fast. It would only take 19 degrees timing.
Then got a cam motion cam and cloyes timing set to replace it - better specs AND not ground wrong (yay) which got me to 370 HP. I still have these heads in my garage BTW. Picked them up used
Then, straight to mamo (cause I realized this incremental build **** was going nowhere fast along with the money I thought I was saving), only change was the heads, fast102 intake, open headers plus 18" extensions, hit 470, and then I just kept trying **** from there.
I literally did not get a single budget part that performed like I thought it would. Add all the fluids and gaskets I went through also to the cost of parts that are now sitting unused in my garage...
09-28-2017, 07:23 PM
#30
Moderator
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: My own internal universe
Posts: 10,446
Received 1,838 Likes
on
1,146 Posts
Originally Posted by Jtm2085
Thanks for the detailed reply. Crazy how you only made 370hp with the 799's though. From the looks of it, you have your set up ironed out now ðŸ‘
Edit - to be fair the cam and Y pipe were killing power the whole time. So it probably would have done better if I'd figured the Y pipe out before I did mamo heads. But it was a budget part too, so lesson still valid.
Last edited by Darth_V8r; 09-28-2017 at 07:33 PM.
09-28-2017, 08:02 PM
#33
TECH Senior Member
The dyno is about changes, not absolutes.....
09-28-2017, 08:17 PM
#34
Moderator
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: My own internal universe
Posts: 10,446
Received 1,838 Likes
on
1,146 Posts
Originally Posted by BrntWS6
Check the sponsor feedback section and you quickly see who to use and stay away from.
Well thought out supporting mods are a must, hopefully you got 1 7/8" headers and not 1 3/4". You don't need the most expensive heads to make good numbers.
Well thought out supporting mods are a must, hopefully you got 1 7/8" headers and not 1 3/4". You don't need the most expensive heads to make good numbers.
Last edited by Darth_V8r; 09-28-2017 at 09:06 PM.
09-29-2017, 07:12 AM
#37
Teching In
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
so im looking at the AR 230's for heads. Still not sure about cam, although from what ive been reading i think i want to run a LLSR set up, and likely a fast LSXR102 or MSD Airforce IM. just need to figure out my gaskets/compression, push rod/rocker stuff, and throttle body.
Last edited by c5_nate; 09-29-2017 at 07:41 AM.
09-29-2017, 08:29 AM
#38
Teching In
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I know this is a stretch, and a mediocre supercharger kit wouldn't necessarily do this, but i have a serious addiction to modifying to "improve", and after 3 years it becomes what ever i have becomes race car. I wanna do the N/A thing this time, and keep it streetable while make as much power as i can.
09-29-2017, 10:05 AM
#39
TECH Fanatic
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Coast of San Mateo County Between Pacifica & HMB
Posts: 1,821
Received 220 Likes
on
131 Posts
so im looking at the AR 230's for heads. Still not sure about cam, although from what ive been reading i think i want to run a LLSR set up, and likely a fast LSXR102 or MSD Airforce IM. just need to figure out my gaskets/compression, push rod/rocker stuff, and throttle body.
MMS 220s are the best Heads for a street/strip especially Auto X
Application (Mast small Bore LS3 for strip/street perhaps).
The MMS 223 Sportsmen can make 460-480 RWHP in a C5
With a 225-229* Intake Duration Cam and paying attention
To details and supporting mods, and will have the best
value/performance, for an Auto X RPM Range ~2500-6000.
I will address tusky's species assertions soon lol.
09-29-2017, 11:28 AM
#40
Moderator
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: My own internal universe
Posts: 10,446
Received 1,838 Likes
on
1,146 Posts
AFR 230s will not fit 3.9" Bore, I still stand by my statement the
MMS 220s are the best Heads for a street/strip especially Auto X
Application (Mast small Bore LS3 for strip/street perhaps).
The MMS 223 Sportsmen can make 460-480 RWHP in a C5
With a 225-229* Intake Duration Cam and paying attention
To details and supporting mods, and will have the best
value/performance, for an Auto X RPM Range ~2500-6000.
I will address tusky's species assertions soon lol.
MMS 220s are the best Heads for a street/strip especially Auto X
Application (Mast small Bore LS3 for strip/street perhaps).
The MMS 223 Sportsmen can make 460-480 RWHP in a C5
With a 225-229* Intake Duration Cam and paying attention
To details and supporting mods, and will have the best
value/performance, for an Auto X RPM Range ~2500-6000.
I will address tusky's species assertions soon lol.