Why 6.0s are so thirsty?
10-17-2017 | 09:07 AM
#261
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From: Mississippi
I seen that one as well when I visited their website. Reason I didn't post that cam you mention it doesn't say nothing about towing in the description.....
10-17-2017 | 09:55 AM
#263
Tusky no 2500+ 6.0/6.2 truck came with dod only vvt.
The nnbs 1500 6.0 vmax has both though.
With that cammotion cam, you may as well put in an 01 ls6 cam...its nearly the same. Maybe that answers your question on it. Very weak on lift also.
The nnbs 1500 6.0 vmax has both though.
With that cammotion cam, you may as well put in an 01 ls6 cam...its nearly the same. Maybe that answers your question on it. Very weak on lift also.
Last edited by tech@WS6store; 10-17-2017 at 10:03 AM.
10-17-2017 | 10:46 AM
#265
10-17-2017 | 12:04 PM
#267
A swap to a 4l60 built transmission would be the better less expensive option and cut weight. Every gear is a compliment to towing vs the 4l80. More aggressive 1 and 2 and better OD. Would make the 4.10s alot better on mpg.
10-17-2017 | 12:27 PM
#268
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Now the bad part about going with 4L60E they even get a bad rep even when BUILT. And we all know the 350 and 400 tranmissions is acourse 3 speed which would hurt the gas milage. However I do have a buddie that swears by his built 4L60E.
10-17-2017 | 12:31 PM
#269
4L80E weighs 178 lbs in typical configuration. A 4L60E weighs approx. 135-140 lbs, a TH400 weighs 135 lbs, a TH350 weighs 125 lbs. All weights are without converter and dry with stock components.
Now the bad part about going with 4L60E they even get a bad rep even when BUILT. And we all know the 350 and 400 tranmissions is acourse 3 speed which would hurt the gas milage. However I do have a buddie that swears by his built 4L60E.
Now the bad part about going with 4L60E they even get a bad rep even when BUILT. And we all know the 350 and 400 tranmissions is acourse 3 speed which would hurt the gas milage. However I do have a buddie that swears by his built 4L60E.
We have never had an issue with our RPM Trans transmissions. They build good stuff.
10-17-2017 | 12:56 PM
#270
Less expensive than what? A 4L60E to handle any kind of power is pretty expensive. Saving 45 lbs. in a HD truck isn't going to be worth a thing. The gearing in the trans would be an advantage from a stop but once it shifts into 2nd the rpm spread is greater in the 60E (would drop more rpm). OD is slightly better in the 80E (for towing) as well where I have complaints about towing. I have no problem with the acceleration off the line with my truck, rather maintaining speed in OD is what my issue is.
10-17-2017 | 01:11 PM
#271
60E in a HD truck? No thanks.
Less expensive than what? A 4L60E to handle any kind of power is pretty expensive. Saving 45 lbs. in a HD truck isn't going to be worth a thing. The gearing in the trans would be an advantage from a stop but once it shifts into 2nd the rpm spread is greater in the 60E (would drop more rpm). OD is slightly better in the 80E (for towing) as well where I have complaints about towing. I have no problem with the acceleration off the line with my truck, rather maintaining speed in OD is what my issue is.
Less expensive than what? A 4L60E to handle any kind of power is pretty expensive. Saving 45 lbs. in a HD truck isn't going to be worth a thing. The gearing in the trans would be an advantage from a stop but once it shifts into 2nd the rpm spread is greater in the 60E (would drop more rpm). OD is slightly better in the 80E (for towing) as well where I have complaints about towing. I have no problem with the acceleration off the line with my truck, rather maintaining speed in OD is what my issue is.
Gm did put 4l60s in a few 2500 trucks as well as 5.3s and iirc behind some 6.0s....as well as 4l70s.
You should not tow heavy loads in overdrive anyway, thats common knowledge, but unloaded the better od would help your rig get better mpg as well.
These arent just suppositions and shooting in the dark. Ive done it. And that is likely what one of my trucks will get is a built 4l60 swap along with an engine rebuild.
A deep 1st gear may be good for drag racing but when are you ever towing above 4k rpm? Maybe passing...thats it. This is a thread about torque, towing and hauling, not building some half ton race truck, so everything ive mentioned is geared toward towing as well as getting better power and mpg out of combos, not just from what everyone else does but what i personally run and those pics earlier show i tow quite a bit more than just a boat or a car.
10-17-2017 | 01:47 PM
#272
Quoted above is dry weight. Its well more than 45 lbs. Still wouldn't be a concern or even noticeable in a HD truck. Also even if spread is diff youll still be at a higher rpm anyway. Acceleration off the line? That gear would be better for low end grunt in towing. Once again, I have no complaints about acceleration from a stop. I also am not at a higher RPM. If anything it stays in the power band longer due to the RPM drop not being as much. I would have to accelerate much harder in my Rainier or Avalanche with my car behind it because the 1-2 drop would lug it down to too low of a RPM otherwise. Try to put a 6lxx in an nbs truck without spending well more than a lvl 4 or 5 rpm 4l60.
Gm did put 4l60s in a few 2500 trucks as well as 5.3s and iirc behind some 6.0s....as well as 4l70s. I never mentioned anything about putting a 6LXX into NBS truck. I would buy a different truck before I did that.
You should not tow heavy loads in overdrive anyway, thats common knowledge, but unloaded the better od would help your rig get better mpg as well. I don't consider what I tow a heavy load. Staying in OD at 70-75 MPH shouldn't be an issue with what I am towing IMO.
These arent just suppositions and shooting in the dark. Ive done it. And that is likely what one of my trucks will get is a built 4l60 swap along with an engine rebuild. That'd be cool to see, however I could never be talked into doing that. Even a built 60E won't put up with what you tow for very long.
A deep 1st gear may be good for drag racing but when are you ever towing above 4k rpm? Maybe passing...thats it. This is a thread about torque, towing and hauling, not building some half ton race truck, so everything ive mentioned is geared toward towing as well as getting better power and mpg out of combos, not just from what everyone else does but what i personally run and those pics earlier show i tow quite a bit more than just a boat or a car. I don't tow above 4k RPM either so not sure what you're getting at here. Nor did I mention anything about drag racing, or building a race truck.
Gm did put 4l60s in a few 2500 trucks as well as 5.3s and iirc behind some 6.0s....as well as 4l70s. I never mentioned anything about putting a 6LXX into NBS truck. I would buy a different truck before I did that.
You should not tow heavy loads in overdrive anyway, thats common knowledge, but unloaded the better od would help your rig get better mpg as well. I don't consider what I tow a heavy load. Staying in OD at 70-75 MPH shouldn't be an issue with what I am towing IMO.
These arent just suppositions and shooting in the dark. Ive done it. And that is likely what one of my trucks will get is a built 4l60 swap along with an engine rebuild. That'd be cool to see, however I could never be talked into doing that. Even a built 60E won't put up with what you tow for very long.
A deep 1st gear may be good for drag racing but when are you ever towing above 4k rpm? Maybe passing...thats it. This is a thread about torque, towing and hauling, not building some half ton race truck, so everything ive mentioned is geared toward towing as well as getting better power and mpg out of combos, not just from what everyone else does but what i personally run and those pics earlier show i tow quite a bit more than just a boat or a car. I don't tow above 4k RPM either so not sure what you're getting at here. Nor did I mention anything about drag racing, or building a race truck.
I'm not trying to get into a pissing match here. If I am ever down at the shop picking up parts from Mike I wouldn't mind checking out your trucks.
10-17-2017 | 02:00 PM
#273
The rpm drop vs the gear ratio diff makes that point moot.
At any point losing 100+lbs is a good thing esp the engine turning a smaller lighter converter.
Most 4l60s did not get even an external aux trans cooler.
All my points werent aimed at you, earlier was a reference to a 6lxx swap vs a 4l80 and how you could change rear ratios then. My price point was aimed at that.
Rpm Trans owner has a very nasty vette with a 4l60 in it as a test mule makin good power and our owner Mike has one also above 600hp with no issues. Thats not a 100% testament to the tow capabilities of the 4l60 in that application of course but seems to be how lots want to rate them.
The nnbs 1500 vmax gm uses the 4l65/70 and they are pretty tough in stock form.
At any point losing 100+lbs is a good thing esp the engine turning a smaller lighter converter.
Most 4l60s did not get even an external aux trans cooler.
All my points werent aimed at you, earlier was a reference to a 6lxx swap vs a 4l80 and how you could change rear ratios then. My price point was aimed at that.
Rpm Trans owner has a very nasty vette with a 4l60 in it as a test mule makin good power and our owner Mike has one also above 600hp with no issues. Thats not a 100% testament to the tow capabilities of the 4l60 in that application of course but seems to be how lots want to rate them.
The nnbs 1500 vmax gm uses the 4l65/70 and they are pretty tough in stock form.
10-17-2017 | 02:17 PM
#274
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I kinda understand where you coming from on the 1st gear deal vs the 4L80E but I like looking at things from ALL angles. I never priced a RPM built tranmission but I'm quite sure they pretty pricey. Now with that being said I always been told MASS is your friend while towing... I 've also seen used 4L80E tranmissions sell for 500 dollars here in the classifieds which is hard to beat.
Anyway have anybody looked into a towing torque converter? I know for a fact I've seen one on Circle D website.
Anyway have anybody looked into a towing torque converter? I know for a fact I've seen one on Circle D website.
10-17-2017 | 02:39 PM
#276
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Hmmm quite interesting. Octane rating might just play a bigger role than what most people think.
10-17-2017 | 03:33 PM
#277
I kinda understand where you coming from on the 1st gear deal vs the 4L80E but I like looking at things from ALL angles. I never priced a RPM built tranmission but I'm quite sure they pretty pricey. Now with that being said I always been told MASS is your friend while towing... I 've also seen used 4L80E tranmissions sell for 500 dollars here in the classifieds which is hard to beat.
Anyway have anybody looked into a towing torque converter? I know for a fact I've seen one on Circle D website.
Anyway have anybody looked into a towing torque converter? I know for a fact I've seen one on Circle D website.
A real towing converter would likely want either anti ballooning or billet front and very nice lockup clutch if not mult. Thats how quite a few diesel converters are now. Minimal stall maybe 2600 max ideally. Hughes makes some but i wouldnt look at them.
Taking the heat out is what to look at also.
As well as a better diff cover with fins maybe. Alot the stock HD trucks have those now iirc.
Octane helps but higher grade fuels also normally use better quality base fuel. Non E is best in any configuration.
Top tier fuels are best.
10-17-2017 | 11:18 PM
#278
I'm kind of a 4l80e fan myself for towing because of the their robustness...(Is that even a word??) and they usually don't need the "super duper rebuild parts" to live with whatever i'm dragging around.
Now, I know the vein of this thread is fuel mileage, and that being said, I know you can't beat a 4l60e in this application...
And as far as 4l60 longevity goes...I daily drive a 2001 GMC C3 (It's the predecessor to the Denali) I'ts a 1/2 ton all wheel drive with a 6.0L 4l60e combo, that has 263,000 miles on the clock...and has never been rebuilt...
Now, I know the vein of this thread is fuel mileage, and that being said, I know you can't beat a 4l60e in this application...
And as far as 4l60 longevity goes...I daily drive a 2001 GMC C3 (It's the predecessor to the Denali) I'ts a 1/2 ton all wheel drive with a 6.0L 4l60e combo, that has 263,000 miles on the clock...and has never been rebuilt...
10-18-2017 | 01:18 PM
#279
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Just as I asked why is 6.0 motors so THIRSTY compared to a 5.3 and even older motors such as a 454 big block?
Yes I know the 6.0 motors have bigger bores over a basic LM7 5.3 or a ls1 5.7 but they all have the same stroke. Guys with 5.3 motors have claimed as much as 20 on the highway....
A 2007 Chevy 4x4 reg cab long bed 2500 with the 6.0 gets 10-11 mpg in town. On the highway expect 13-14.
Do a bigger bore ALWAYS mean a decrease in miles per gallon?
Could GM did a better designing the cam specs for the 6.0 motors?
Yes I also know the 6.2 motors most of them have DOD which I hear people complain all the time about and they just hates it with a passion.
Let's throw this out for fun... 454 averages 12 mpg around town and 14 mpg highway. The GM crate 502HT barely gets 11 mpg around town and it barely tickles 13 MPG on the highway. The 502HT motors makes over 500 ft lb at 2XXX rpm and have 377 horses to back it up.
Hook a 30ft camper up for a family vacation or your car for the drag strip and things only gets worse for the already thirsty 6.0 motor but pulls a load better than a smaller 5.3 motor.
Yes I know the 6.0 motors have bigger bores over a basic LM7 5.3 or a ls1 5.7 but they all have the same stroke. Guys with 5.3 motors have claimed as much as 20 on the highway....
A 2007 Chevy 4x4 reg cab long bed 2500 with the 6.0 gets 10-11 mpg in town. On the highway expect 13-14.
Do a bigger bore ALWAYS mean a decrease in miles per gallon?
Could GM did a better designing the cam specs for the 6.0 motors?
Yes I also know the 6.2 motors most of them have DOD which I hear people complain all the time about and they just hates it with a passion.
Let's throw this out for fun... 454 averages 12 mpg around town and 14 mpg highway. The GM crate 502HT barely gets 11 mpg around town and it barely tickles 13 MPG on the highway. The 502HT motors makes over 500 ft lb at 2XXX rpm and have 377 horses to back it up.
Hook a 30ft camper up for a family vacation or your car for the drag strip and things only gets worse for the already thirsty 6.0 motor but pulls a load better than a smaller 5.3 motor.
The 1/2 ton with much lighter gearing and truck gets 16.4 average including camper towing. The 6.0 is a 3/4 tom with 4.11 gears and towing package. It averages 13. The main difference is the weight, gearing and shift settings, heavier drive train and engine tuning. The 6.0 is clearly more powerful as well. My other engine is in a 01 Z-28 and gets around 20 mpg.
I am pretty sure the 6.0 in the same vehicle with the same tuning would get about the same mileage as the other size motors.
10-18-2017 | 02:56 PM
#280
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Yes a 6.0 has more Horsepower than a 454ci factory. But how about torque? Some big block guys claim 500ftlbs below 2500 rpm. I'm a LS guy at heart but a big block still and always will demand respect....
I have seen magazine articles where guys invest 2500 into a big block and they become down right monsters.
The numbers I made in that post is very common if you visit a big block forum dealing with older trucks.
I have seen magazine articles where guys invest 2500 into a big block and they become down right monsters.
The numbers I made in that post is very common if you visit a big block forum dealing with older trucks.