traction control
TECH Senior Member
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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 8,766
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From: Gainesville, Denton TX
Originally Posted by waterbug1999
Yea, my buddy is not familiar with HPtuner either.. Wasnt about to start turning things off and see what it does.. 
I just need to get some different axles put in.. You got any?
I just need to get some different axles put in.. You got any?
I dont have any axles, for the 10bolt moser has some 28spline i do believe..
TCS on F-bodies is a complicated little rack of
gizmos. It involves the ABS controller, the main
PCM and a little TCS control module up under the
dash, left of the steering column. The TCS "brain"
can command spark retard (via PCM), throttle
relaxation (directly) and application of brakes
(via the ABS system) and it does these in order
as wheelspin is sensed.
The pulley cluster up on the passenger's fender-
well combines the gas pedal and the cruise control
plus the TCS-controlled relaxation to drive the TB.
If you unplug the servo connector there the TCS
will fault at startup and always be off, with the
ASR OFF lamp lit.
If you fool the startup checks (such as by plugging
the connector to a similar sized 12VDC motor) the
TCS will operate normally, without the throttle pull
being functional. The ABS action will still work. But
don't go getting all excited here, having the ABS
apply on launch sucks even worse than the throttle
pullback. It's not clever enough to help the Torsen
out with torque-to-bias. I went through this all way
back when I first got the car and learned the limits
of stock Torsen traction.
I have never gotten around to removing the TCS brain
or adding a power-cut switch there. That would be an
interesting experiment. It's my belief that GM made the
TCS a "bolt on" (since they made non-TCS cars and
wouldn't want to spend a dime on non-installed options)
so maybe not having the module would "fail safe" and
not even light the light. Somebody with spare time and
a screwdriver should try the simple unplug option out.
To bypass and remove the pulley cluster you would need
all the non-TCS pieces that replace it and the cables
running to it. As a minimum that would be throttle and
cruise cables, plus whatever scheme combines them.
Tuning can improve on the TCS operation. There are a
couple of problems with the stock setup.
One is, the stock part throttle shiftpoint settings lick
*****. So when the throttle relaxer pulls back the throttle
and TPS, you are put to a lousy place for power. That
can be fixed in the part throttle shift tables.
Another is, the throttle relax comes in too soon and it
goes away slow. It's clumsy (but not as clumsy as the
brakes). What controls the application of relaxer, is the
failure of spark pullout to gain control. It seems counter-
intuitive but if you go and -increase- the TCS spark
retard and agressive retard values, you give the system
more authority within the first layer, and it can push the
spark back and power down without touching the throttle
and give you a cleaner traction control event without the
side effects (on an A4, upshifting into 2nd with no way
back back down at part throttle, per tables).
The cheap ugly way is to unplug the servo and put black
tape over the ASR OFF light....
gizmos. It involves the ABS controller, the main
PCM and a little TCS control module up under the
dash, left of the steering column. The TCS "brain"
can command spark retard (via PCM), throttle
relaxation (directly) and application of brakes
(via the ABS system) and it does these in order
as wheelspin is sensed.
The pulley cluster up on the passenger's fender-
well combines the gas pedal and the cruise control
plus the TCS-controlled relaxation to drive the TB.
If you unplug the servo connector there the TCS
will fault at startup and always be off, with the
ASR OFF lamp lit.
If you fool the startup checks (such as by plugging
the connector to a similar sized 12VDC motor) the
TCS will operate normally, without the throttle pull
being functional. The ABS action will still work. But
don't go getting all excited here, having the ABS
apply on launch sucks even worse than the throttle
pullback. It's not clever enough to help the Torsen
out with torque-to-bias. I went through this all way
back when I first got the car and learned the limits
of stock Torsen traction.
I have never gotten around to removing the TCS brain
or adding a power-cut switch there. That would be an
interesting experiment. It's my belief that GM made the
TCS a "bolt on" (since they made non-TCS cars and
wouldn't want to spend a dime on non-installed options)
so maybe not having the module would "fail safe" and
not even light the light. Somebody with spare time and
a screwdriver should try the simple unplug option out.
To bypass and remove the pulley cluster you would need
all the non-TCS pieces that replace it and the cables
running to it. As a minimum that would be throttle and
cruise cables, plus whatever scheme combines them.
Tuning can improve on the TCS operation. There are a
couple of problems with the stock setup.
One is, the stock part throttle shiftpoint settings lick
*****. So when the throttle relaxer pulls back the throttle
and TPS, you are put to a lousy place for power. That
can be fixed in the part throttle shift tables.
Another is, the throttle relax comes in too soon and it
goes away slow. It's clumsy (but not as clumsy as the
brakes). What controls the application of relaxer, is the
failure of spark pullout to gain control. It seems counter-
intuitive but if you go and -increase- the TCS spark
retard and agressive retard values, you give the system
more authority within the first layer, and it can push the
spark back and power down without touching the throttle
and give you a cleaner traction control event without the
side effects (on an A4, upshifting into 2nd with no way
back back down at part throttle, per tables).
The cheap ugly way is to unplug the servo and put black
tape over the ASR OFF light....
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (10)
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 8,766
Likes: 0
From: Gainesville, Denton TX
holy post jimmy, thanks for clearing that up with me. What are you calling the pulley setup btw? the module at the passenger fender?
This thread has me thinking about ditching mine, just for looks alone, but it does keep my *** in check in the rain too...
This thread has me thinking about ditching mine, just for looks alone, but it does keep my *** in check in the rain too...
Teching In
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
From: Palm Beach
Traction control Thanks for the tips.
I unhooked the ASR unit, taped the ends together so it still looks good under the hood and water won't get in the wiring. Next, I placed black tape over the "ASR disabled" light and put the smoke colored in-dash plate from Eckler's over it so it doesn't show.
While I was under the hood with the tape I also taped up the ends of all the other wiring where it had shrunk away through the years (1994 Vette).
What had been happening was, even with the ASR turned off, the in dash "brake" light would come on under hard acceloration. My guess is that I either had a bad ASR unit (aren't they all!) or perhaps when it is off the brake portion still works but the accelorator "kick back" and other stuff doesn't. Anyhow, everything works fine now and the car seems faster. Maybe the brakes were hitting a little when I was getting on it before?
I've been told that these cars wear out the rear brakes faster than other cars without ASR. Not now!
Gary[IMG]94, competition yellow, near perfect.[/IMG]
I unhooked the ASR unit, taped the ends together so it still looks good under the hood and water won't get in the wiring. Next, I placed black tape over the "ASR disabled" light and put the smoke colored in-dash plate from Eckler's over it so it doesn't show.
While I was under the hood with the tape I also taped up the ends of all the other wiring where it had shrunk away through the years (1994 Vette).
What had been happening was, even with the ASR turned off, the in dash "brake" light would come on under hard acceloration. My guess is that I either had a bad ASR unit (aren't they all!) or perhaps when it is off the brake portion still works but the accelorator "kick back" and other stuff doesn't. Anyhow, everything works fine now and the car seems faster. Maybe the brakes were hitting a little when I was getting on it before?
I've been told that these cars wear out the rear brakes faster than other cars without ASR. Not now!
Gary[IMG]94, competition yellow, near perfect.[/IMG]
Last edited by ggeiser; Oct 9, 2005 at 04:07 PM. Reason: add picture
Teching In
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
From: Palm Beach
Brake light fixed. Just a note if anyone is interested.
The brake light problem had absolutely nothing to do with the ASR. It was a little low on fluid is all and once I toped it off the light stays off as it should.
So, now the ASR is off (see above) and the brake light is off. Next: Fix the cigar lighter!
The brake light problem had absolutely nothing to do with the ASR. It was a little low on fluid is all and once I toped it off the light stays off as it should.
So, now the ASR is off (see above) and the brake light is off. Next: Fix the cigar lighter!
