Good grief. You do realize that your "gains" could have been totally a difference in weather... right?

 

good grief. you do realize a cutout isn't the best thing since sliced bread..... right?

i guess all the dynoing i did means nothing either. but seeing as you are the guru of the cutout, then explain why i gained zilch in ET at the track from it. runs were back to back. spinning, nope. it was at bradenton. so, you can attest to the track prep there. did i miss a shift. hmmm it's an auto. so, that's not it. did i let out of it to make the cutout look bad. hmmmm, the cutout has a whooping 1 mph over the stock exhaust. that can't be it. did i hit the button a little later with the cutout vs stock. hhhhmmmm i'm the type of person that's wants the quickest ET i can get out of it. you might say that's it. but, i'm not the type of person that goes out and spends the most money i can to get ETs. if that was the case, i wouldn't have tried the cheap cutout first.

tell you what. when you finally go out and put a dual on your car and show it's crappier than a cutout, get back with us. i admire you with your ET. man i really do. makes me scratch my head about mine. but then again you've got alot more work done to your car than i do.

tell you what, here look at the dyno runs i did. #2 is with the cutout open. runs 8, 9, 10, 11 ,12 ,and 13 were with the bassani tru-duals. and i'm sure you'll point out in the the notes that it was the 15* cooler temps that gained me 10 rwhp over the cutout. let's see. it's an indoor dynojet 224 above ground. all runs were made with engine temps at 185* by looking at my autoxray scanner while i was the one doing the actual dynoing.

 

now, here's the notes page that goes right along with those runs. that way you can even see the times the runs were made. the lowest run with the bassani was the first run. it kept making more and more power.

 

here's a pic of the dyno and the shop it's located in

 

look. all i'm getting at is true dual systems work over cutouts and single exhausts. if i really have to, i'll dig up posts of others with the bassani. one beating a magnaflow exhaust. but everyone can do a search on duals and find all this out themselves. personally, i don't give a rat's *** which duals anyone buys. people buy what they can afford. people want info. and if i have it, i'll share it.

now which dual system will outperform the other?? who knows. going over the axle might cost a whole 5 rwhp in my opinion. but that's all it is. until someone spends there hard earned time testing the different duals out there, it'll only be conjecture. some, due to local laws, can't have dumps under the car. bassani is the only complete system that goes from front to back over the axle that i'm aware of.

 

I agree with your statements about duals being better than a single or a cutout and the statement about the piping after the X-pipe isn't that big a deal. I just think you're losing significant HP with that particular muffler. Even though it's two pipes in and two out, that baffled style *probably* creates more back pressure than desired.

Remember I said don't take it personally...No one is calling you a lier. Well maybe a salesman.

 

Exactly why I posted.

mrr23 This isn't about duals vs cutout (sounds silly even typing it). It's about you continuing to use inconsistence, in this case, misleading infomation to "prove" your point. I have no doubt you see it as absolute, but I see alot of holes in it.

IMO, stick with the dyno information, it probably better backs up your claims. Becuase, as I've said more than once, the track data doesn't add up.

 

well maybe a salesman. too bad i don't make any money at it. i'll repeat what i said in an earlier post. i don't give a rat's *** what dual system anyone buys.

looks guys. i'm not taking it personal. it's all talk. the stock exhaust vs cutout you cannot debate the track data. same day back to back runs. in the timeslips i put up, you can see exactly what happened with the cutout. killed the power under 3000 rpms (loss of 60ft). but, gained in the upper rpms (more mph). to give credit to a cutout, i gained 11/13 on the dyno after 3000 rpms. too bad when you dyno a LS1, you have to start around 3200 rpms so it won't downshift into 2nd. and there is nothing misleading about any of my info. this is florida. you can even see on the dyno it's only 15* cooler from august to february. so, i'll give you .1 and 1 mph for that. so, until you guys can absolutely refute my timeslips and dynos with your very own info, stop calling my information misleading. because that's getting old.

WILWAXU - technically, you aren't running just a cutout. you have a cutout and the SLP exhaust. mine was stock exhaust and 3" electric cutout. you have the added benefit of the slp to aid you in the upper rpms. if anything's misleading, it's your 10.77 run. where was that run made at? up north wasn't it? bring it to bradenton and run a 10. weather and DA makes a huge difference. so, as with anything, you just can't tell by track and dyno info what it'll do. the dyno told me i picked up 11/13 with the cutout. the track told me i gained nothing ET wise. so which one is right? in this case they both are. one day everyone will quit hanging on all this dyno and track info as being gospel.


let me ask you a question. have i ever come into any of our posts saying what you run is impossible? have i ever come in and said, your ETs just do not match with what you're running? nope. never have. if you say you've dyno'ed and run what you do, then i believe it. without questioning the combination and degrading you because of it. i may ask you about it because it peaks my interest. just like our last thread when we went at it over the stupid cutout issue. seems to be a sore spot for you.

one day, just for kicks, uncork that thing of yours and dump it at the header. then lets see a low 10 like i think your car has in it. you need to get back to bradenton so we can meet up.

 

We've been through this before.. but here goes again.
1. 60ft in drag racing it everything. Especially with an automatic car. Everything from timing curves to shift points are effected by how well the car gets out of the hole.

You might be able to tell someone that hasn't spent much time at the strip that the only difference in the 60ft was the cutout. But anyone who is a serious drag racer will immediately throw a BS flag.

2. With the 60ft times your car is running, it's obvious you are not hitting the gas out of the whole.. so how are you 100% sure you hit the button at the same time? I won't even get into the other inconsistencies of n20.

3. The comparison of the before and after true-dual data is horribly misleading do to weather. A point you even agree to in your post.

I'm pretty sure you do not want to compare your car directly with mine, even at the same track. But, just for conversations sake..

The last time I had my car at BMP it went 11.54 @ 115.39 (1.53) N/A stock internals, which means stock long block as it came from Pontiac.

What was your best at with a 200 shot at the same track?

I completely agree. Weather can have a huge effect on how a car runs. Which is why I made the "good grief" comment above and exactly the reason your before and after true-dual track info is misleading.

I would wager that most of your posts in this section have been that ET chart and your dynosheets.

That's part of my problem with your 'data'. You post it as if it's was gospel, repeatedly.. even after I and others have pointed out inconsistencies in it.

Well, that isn't happening anytime soon. But your more than welcome to come to San Diego

 

well let the serious drag racers come in and comment. again, if i really have to, i'll scan all the timeslips i have with the cutout open where they were all 2.0x 60fts. then, in the same day, i closed it and the 60fts went right back to 1.9x.

now of course human error will always play a role. but, after 12 years of going to the track, i'm pretty good at what i do. just like i'm sure you're pretty good at what you do.

but not to the point you try to make. that weather was the only reason why my car went faster. like i said, put a dual system on your car and get back with us on results.


no, i wasn't wanting to compare your car to mine. two different sceanarios that achieve the same results. doesn't feel good when someone starts throwing the BS back at you does it? now you're on the defensive having to explain everything.

[quote=WILWAXU]What was your best at with a 200 shot at the same track?

if you want to compare. i just did 11.66 @ 117.67 at the last runday sunday in june. not bad being a completely stock, untouched motor. little more than a tenth slower and 2 mph more than you at the same track.


but, how much did the weather play? remember the dyno even showed you that it was only 15* difference in weather between the two runs. so, what's that. we'll give it .15 so, that would leave another .15 quicker than the cutout. there i split the difference for you.

the reason why i use the data is the same reason why people come here. because it's the only thing people can go by without going out and buying all this neat stuff and trying it themselves. it's not gospel. it's what happened to me when i used the parts. and what i will report when asked. the most i've seen out of anyone that's posted here using a cutout is one tenth. and there are countless posts saying that. a dual system produces more than that. and there are countless posts that attest to that as well.


were you stationed here for awhile?

 

you're right. it was a post about a borla catback vs a dual system. and i have absolute proof that a dual system made more power over the entire range over the borla. nothing incosistent there. please punch a hole in what the subject was originally about.

what it turned into was a let's pick on mrr23 and his bassani system. that's ok, i'm used to it.

 

Never said it was the only reason. What I did say is that it's misleading to chart all those times together as if they were back to back comparisons.
Umm.. what this commit then?What you were implying was that my car could not run quick in Florida, unfortunitly you were a little off again.
The difference is I'm not posting BS, I'm challenging the information.. and so far your not doing a very good job at defending it, just attacking me and my car.
I'm a resident of the Tampa Bay area serving our country in the Navy.
not picking, challenging your information. If you can't tell the difference, maybe you should rethink posting it.

 

not the only reason huh. you sure didn't try to make that point in your response the first time.

the so called attack on your car was just a 'challenge' back at you for attacking me and my results. you call BS on my testing without having any means of refuting it. other than look i run 10s with a cutout (yet don't mention the SLP exhaust in the same breath). if you couldn't tell the difference, maybe you should rethink what you want to convey before posting as well.

you did the picking ( or challenging as you would like to phrase it) first. you just don't agree with my responses because they don't fit the theories you have. see my sig about theories. i'm ok with challenging. it's what it takes to improve on things in life.

have you run a 10 in florida with the current set up? all i did was put both of our cars on the same track by doing that. alot of people just don't know that you run faster up on the northern tracks. and slower in the upper midwestern tracks with very high altitudes. i run about 2 tenths quicker just by driving 1.5 hours southwest of the first track.

i'll state this again, you pick ( challenge whatever) my results with the bassani duals by calling it BS. yet you cannot even produce anything to support your claims of the cutout being better. because you haven't even tried any other type of exhaust. you runs 10s. i'm not knocking it in anyway. one of my sayings i have "if you want to go fast, talk to the ones faster than you."


because of you, i'm in the middle of a project for today. (see, challenging does work ) you keep insisting the exhaust couldn't have done what it did. keep watching. i'll be done with it tonight. then i want you to poke as many holes as possible in it.

 

http://www.stealthram.com/2000formulatimeslips.html here. chew on this for a little while and get back with me. pay particular attention to dec 2004.

 

READ THIS VERY CAREFULLY.

At no time in this thread have I said one word about which setup is better than the other.

What I have said:
1. a .10 difference in 60ft will make a big difference in ET.
2. N20 can cause inconsistent results.
3. Weather has a dramatic effect on ET's.
4. Your information is flaw because of the reasons above.

Now I will say, if you can't take people questioning your results without taking it personally, it might be time for you leave.