this is a weird one. I fired up the car and it started first try. cool I thought. wrong.

I think I did some bonehead things so see if you can confirm they could be causing the issues or suggest other things.

ok so it fires but is real rough and misses.

scanner software records tons of misfires. 190 in just seconds

02's bank one goes down to .390 while bank 2 holds at .890

then I see all kinds of smoke from the passenger side of things.

let the car sit, try again. 02's start at .400 both sides, bank 2 starts to climb up to .800 and bank 1 remains at .400

first time I started it I did get bank 1 o2 heater ...... code. I believe this means it thought it wasn't plugged in? I removed and reinstalled the o2 and the 2 other times I have fired the car, no code but the 02's are weird and it backfires like a *****

question, the bank 1 o2 was sitting on the ground and coolant got on it. is it instantly ruined? and could cause the 02 readings and terribly rough running/backfires?

question 2. I now have an ls6 intake. I tried reconnecting everything and just not plugging in the power connector to the egr dealie. I suspect this is not cool? must use block off plates? could this be the source of the smoking?

If I wasn't getting spark on one side the 02 read horribly rich on that side right, so I don't think thats a problem?

what things can I diagnose without firing up the car. the backfires scare the **** out of me and I am afraid of doing damage letting the car run as is.

background is I changed heads/cam/installed ls6 intake/42# injectors/gutted the fuel dampner/new fuel pump/new oil pump/cloyes adjustable sproket timing chain kit

thanks in advance

<small>[ July 13, 2002, 07:18 PM: Message edited by: Blackbird ]</small>

 

more info.

cylinder 1 and 4 are the big misfire culprits.

what would the symptoms be of putting in the cam wrong?
IE I managed to not do it dot to dot. or aligned the sprokets incorrectly?

I would whack the crap outta the valves right? hear a huge racket up at the engine? which I do not by the way.

what about crank position relearn??? could this be an issue?

<small>[ July 13, 2002, 07:29 PM: Message edited by: Blackbird ]</small>

 

ok I just read another thread after searching about a guy who had the cam off 180 degrees.

I did dot to dot on the sprokets with #1 at tdc.

Is this correct?

 

why dont you just swap sides with the o2 sensors and see if it moves everything over to bank 2. if it does then you can figure that the sensor is bad. I dont see how coolant on it can be a good thing. dot to dot with #1 tdc sounds ok. how are you finding tdc?

 

I will definetly do that. the main thing I am wondering about now is the misfires on 1 and 4.

trying to think what could I have done to cause massive misfires on only those two.

 

I may be incorrectly basing it on we spun the crankshaft to line up the timing marks before removing the old cam. this put cylinder 1 up top.

then when I installed the new cam I put everything back without rotating anything so I figured in theory the new guy should line up correctly.

 

I imagine the O2 is bad that got the coolant on it. I read once that u shouldnt even touch the O2 sensor end... not sure about ur misfire problem, pull the plugs and checkem... obviously check wires but might be ur cam isnt in properly. The only time my O2 readings are accurate is at WOT with ATAP other wise they just bounce around. Was just rereading ur post and u put cylinder one at TDC and with new cam install ur misfiring on cylinder one, would have to say ur cam isnt in proper degree

<small>[ July 13, 2002, 08:47 PM: Message edited by: T/A Medic ]</small>

 

misfires could be caused by the cam...Im pretty sure ive heard other people complain about this. I dont know if you have timing cover off or not but you could pull #1 plug and tap the key to spin the motor over till it comes up and blows your finger off the spark plug hole. That will get ya about as close as you can get to tdc without having a balancer with timing marks and a pointer. If you did that you could look at the gears and see if they are still dot to dot like ya said. im not sure if the stock balancer has timing marks and a pointer..maybe this will help a little...

 

also...do you have aim? might be easier to talk this out in real time than over the board.....you can reach me at " the psycho dave " on aim..

 

ok more info.
I am only pulling about 2" of vacum instead of the 22 I normally see

could it be my mickey mouse job on the egr and not using blockoff plates?

 

do you hear a vaccum leak? is the car running rough or idling odd? if the car isnt running like crap you can probably blame the misfires on the cam because they do that and the o2 sensor is probably screwed up from the coolant. dont know how big of a cam it is but you will lose vaccum from a big cam also. not that much vaccum though..i wouldnt think.

 

i would think that the vacuum lose is coming from the EGR. Your 02 is probably bad considering they are very sensitive and just touching the end can ruin them. I dont know if u might have installed the new timing sprocket wrong and thus not making it dot to dot, but i know for a fact that it was ligned up when we pulled it out cuz we both checked it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Jay

 

When you put the motor at TDC are you sure that it was on the compression stroke and not the exhaust stroke?

I have seen alot of guys put one in, run it to TDC on the exhaust stroke, adjust their valves and have major problems.

Good luck, Stu

 

talking it over with a mechanic friend we are very confident at this point it's not the cam.

i would have destroyed all the valves by now. and when the car doesn't miss, which admitidly isnt much <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> it is smooth and sounds very good. when it does miss though it backfires and causes the whole engine to torque counter clockwise.

we alinged the sprockets dot to dot before pulling the cam then put the new one in. so in theory it should be impossible for me to fubar that.

next step is real blockoff plates on the egr stuff and try again.

but I really wonder though if thats it. how could egr make me lose vacum? shouldn't it just act like a big exahust leak?

another symptom is everytime I fire it up there is a backfire

<small>[ July 13, 2002, 09:55 PM: Message edited by: Blackbird ]</small>

 

sounds like timing to me...im still questioning the cam install..

 

Did you program the computer for the 42# injectors?Some of your problems could be too much fuel.

 

make sure the coil pack harness isnt flipped over...it will fit either way and showef the same symptoms you have on 2bseens car....we chased it for days. I mean the whole harness...not just a plug...i think some have the actually cylinder number on them with a little tag on each coil wire

 

just want to jump in on this. you said that you lined up the timing marks on the old cam, removed everything and put the new cam in and just assumed that #1 was at tdc? it is possible that #1 was at tdc of the exhaust stroke instead of intake putting you 180 out of phase resulting in the missfires one #1 and #4. the o2 with the coolant on it may be a separate problem. everyone clear me up if i am wrong i want to help not complicate things.

 

Another vote for the timing here.

If it is an O2 sensor then your car should fire up fine, and run well for the first couple minutes. Once it goes to Close Loop though, everything goes to hell. Guys, correct me if I'm wrong on this one.

A little tidbit for you regarding the cloyes adjustable timing sets. Whenever you switch to an adjustable timing set, you should always degree your cam on the install. The reason being is that alot of those sets are not dead on. My initial cam install with my cloyes adjust showed that my set was a little off. When I called a few of the engine builders, I was told they had seen the same thing, and just to degree it in properly. I ended up not using the Cloyes for different reasons (my new kick-*** 3 bill timing chain didn't fit it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="gr_images/icons/mad.gif" /> ), but my timing would have been a little off had I just thrown it in and run the beast.

I would check your timing. It sounds like timing. <img border="0" alt="[judgement]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_judge.gif" />

 

Hold on there buddy. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

1) Make sure your vacuum lines and egr are not leaking. Either can cause the car to hard start, idle high, and cause the pcm to add fuel to adjust for a perceived lean condition. If a vacuum is not on properly you will have poor vacuum.

2) O2's constantly switch at idle... back and forth, if one just sits there it's not plugged in or it's messed up. Swap it out. If it stays at one value at idle I bet the car is running superrich on that side. Supposedly heating up the 02 end with a torch will burn off all the junk on the 02 head.

3) Last case I would mess with the cam.