ArcticWhiteLS1

damn those are clean, how much again? i dont think i saw it, good job barry <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />

Fenris Ulf

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Gary Z:
<strong> Ferris, I admit it did not occur to me that swirl might be a significant factor. On the other hand, you didn’t mention swirl until challenged. I objected to your unsupported nattering about QTP’s supposedly obsolete design. My reasoning was as follows: The individual tubes enter the collector in a square pattern. In a square pattern each tube is adjacent to each of the other three. Rearranging which tube occupies which quadrant can not significantly alter scavenging. So I thought, so I still think. I am aware that my reasoning ignores the "turbulence spike". Interesting discussion. Beautiful headers. No hard feelings.

-Gary </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I see geometry is not your thing either. If you actually look at your four quadrants, you will see that they are not all adjacent. Each quadrant touches two others and is diagonal to the third. Swirl didn't occur to you? That is the entire point of properly phasing a header, I didn't mention swirl until "challenged" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> because I did not realize you were ignorant on the matter. So yes you are wrong again, rearranging the "quadrants" as you say CAN have a significant effect on the scavenging. The turbulence spike has nothing to do with proper phasing; the point of the spike is to provide a smoother transition from primary to collector "step up". Is this still preposterous to you?

Jammer

iTrader: (1)

We sorta hijacked QTPS thread so I started another one to continue the friendly dicsussion.

Fenris Ulf

And it's Fenris dammit! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

No hard feelings, if it still doesn't make sense to you I can try again. Kinda futile anyways since Barry already said the out-dated design will stay <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="gr_sad.gif" />

Speedfreaks101

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Fenris Ulf:
<strong> And it's Fenris dammit! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hmm, the beer must have impaired my reading skills. Now back to my original question: what reading material would you recommend to learn more on exhaust dynamics and headers design?
Thanks,
Bart

Quick Time

iTrader: (1)

Sorry if any question was not answered but this thread seems to go off in another direction.

If anyone has questions please call me and i will be happy to answer them.

And Fenis a wise man once said if it aint broke dont fix it. This is a proven header design. if anyone wants to spend there own money and to swap primaries go ahead. I dont mind. I would like to see how much you spend for the change and how much the price increase would be. I didnt want to do that. I DECREASED the price. Changining things around and hope they work is not a chance i will take at this time. And also pray it fits with out any issues.


Once again if anyone has questions feel free to call me.

CHRISPY

Need PRICING please <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
thanks,
Chris

MattB4C

iTrader: (1)

go to the website all the pricing is there. Except for the catted y-pipes cause Barry doesn't know how much they will be yet.

Fenris Ulf

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Quick Time:
<strong> Sorry if any question was not answered but this thread seems to go off in another direction.

If anyone has questions please call me and i will be happy to answer them.

And Fenis a wise man once said if it aint broke dont fix it. This is a proven header design. if anyone wants to spend there own money and to swap primaries go ahead. I dont mind. I would like to see how much you spend for the change and how much the price increase would be. I didnt want to do that. I DECREASED the price. Changining things around and hope they work is not a chance i will take at this time. And also pray it fits with out any issues.


Once again if anyone has questions feel free to call me. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Bary, I never said it aint working, just that it can work better. I REALLY doubt I will have any fitment issues, especially considering the passengerside header can be thrown up there and I have a tubular K-member now, making my job even easier. No praying will be necessary <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

Fenris Ulf

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Speedfreaks101:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Fenris Ulf:
<strong> And it's Fenris dammit! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hmm, the beer must have impaired my reading skills. Now back to my original question: what reading material would you recommend to learn more on exhaust dynamics and headers design?
Thanks,
Bart </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Haven't run across a good book yet, I just pick up things here and there and apply what I was taught back in my college days.

Gary Z

Bart, If you want to begin to build a theoretical understanding of engine exhaust systems you can refer to any good high school physics textbook. Basic understanding must begin with an understanding of pressure and density and Bernoulli’s equation. It is very helpful to understand the theory of waves and the ideal gas law. Somewhere beyond this point, the relevant theory becomes so complex as to be less applicable. Basic theory is a valuable guide to the understanding and design of high-performance exhaust systems but theory is not enough. In some engineering fields, the underlying scientific theory is so powerful that the behavior of complex systems can be accurately predicted long before any parts are assembled. Newton’s laws allowed men to visit the moon and return without first making the same trip with an unmanned craft. Perhaps surprisingly, the performance of headers can not be calculated with similar accuracy. In the case of exhaust system design, the relevant scientific theory is so complex that accurate predictions can only be calculated for very simple systems. LS1 headers are not simple and their performance can only be accurately known by measurement. Header design has advanced more by trial-and-error experimentation than by theory. Header designers need to be part engineer, and part artist. Barry, of QTP, is clearly an artist.

<small>[ March 13, 2003, 09:53 PM: Message edited by: Gary Z ]</small>

Fenris Ulf

Wow, that is a long response from someone who thinks phasing a header is preposterous <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

WILWAXU

iTrader: (6)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Fenris Ulf:
<strong> Wow, that is a long response from someone who thinks phasing a header is preposterous <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Fenris Ulf Your discussion here is off the subject. If you think you can built a better header, port better TB, or whatever your the expert on today... , then please by all means go do it. Once you have actual RESULTS, then I'm sure all of us will be interested... Someone has smartly opened another post to let you talk all the theory you like.. Take it there or leave. STOP TROLLING SPONSORS posts, or I will start deleting your responses.

Barry (QTP) Please repost the original subject if you would like to discuss is further.