Matt, no still nothing, tried a few things this morning but didn't help. Still lookin for someone arounf here who has a scanner/code reader anything to tell me WTF is up.

Hey 2001NBM thanks for that there is actually a Harbor Frieght in town I am going to go check it out and see if they have the code reader that you mentioned.

 

On their website it's Item# 46030-0VGA, $49.99. Only reads/clears codes, but comes in handy if the car's not running and can't get a free read from someone.

 

Yea I just called the local store and the guy said they are on sale for only 39.99, so I am going to get one now once I get the code I will be back on asking what it means.
Thanks for that idea looks like it may actually work.

 

Okay so i just ran this code reader on my car really quickly. It only threw one code, a fac t I found very surprising, but the code was 0405. The manual describes it as follows:

0405: Exhaust Gas Recirculation Sensor A Circuit Low

Not exactly sure what that means all help/explanations are welcomed.

 

That's just a code from you removing your EGR. I don't see that effecting your starting ability though. Although I have been wrong before

 

Sure that's the only code? Haven't used that scanner before but should have more - P0405 doesn't surprise me since you chucked the EGR - shouldn't make the car not start though. Thinking you should have an AIR code too at least since you deleted that also - AIR codes also won't keep the car from starting.

 

The AIR codes are hit or miss. I know some people that throw them when they delete the AIR, and I've known a few people that never threw codes when they deleted theirs.

Do you have your rear o2 sensors plugged in, but just sitting in the open air? I don't think this will affect the ability of the car to start. But just leave the rear o2's unplugged. That code will not effect performance.

When you did the motor mounts, did you move the alternator? If so, did you unplug that ground wire and replug it back in? If that came loose that might cause an electrical problem.

Let me see if I can scrounge up an old scanner I might still have. I'll let you know if it get it to work and I might be able to come by later and scan it to see what all is wrong with the car.

 

Unplug one of your spark wires from a spark plug and hook it up to any spare spark plug.... Leave the other end of the wire hooked up to the coil pack. (do not take any plugs out of the motor)


Have a friend hold the wire/extra plug while you try to start the motor.... See if the plug sparks... becareful not to get shocked.


This will tell you if your motor is "sparking"

 

Did you check the cam sensor jumper harness on the passenger side where all the other stuff you disconnected was

 

You also have to ground that plug...

 

That code will not prevent your car from starting that is simply a bi-product of removing you're EGR. I still think it is either the crank position sensor or your coolant temp sensor.

Obviously whatever it is wont set a code. Have you checked for spark on all the plugs? you arent getting any spark on any of them ?

Maybe you disconnected a ground somewhere? Do you have fuel pressure? Just because you dont have spark that may not be the only problem, check for fuel pressure.

edit: also i'm not surprised you didnt get an AIR code, it takes a little bit of driving w/out the AIR connected for that one to be thrown. You may also get another for your O2 sensors that is something like insufficient switching, although I'm not sure what the code is. That code should not keep you from starting either.

Scottyz had almost the exact same problem you did but I can't seem to remember what his ultimate solution was. I want to say it was the crank position sensor.

 

I dug up the post for you. His problem was ultimately a bad connection to both the engine temp sensor and the crank position sensor. (I'm betting the crank position sensor was the one keeping it from starting though!)

Here is the thread for you're viewing pleasure. https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...=513134&page=3

 

have your son hold on to it

Or just rest it on one of the heads....

 

I thought the same thing about the EGR code, the car should start.
Also I was surprised that it only threw one code, so just to make sure I went out again and rechecked and again it just gave the one code.

FstBlckZ28: rear O2s are plugged in, but I don't see that keeping me from starting the car but I will try anything at this point so I will try with them unplugged but screwed in. Also I did take the alternator off and did plug that cable back in. If you find your scanner let me know I would love to have the help, feel free to PM anytime.

Checked the sparks again, choose one at random on each side neither gave spark.
Where exactly is the came sensor jumper harness? I don't recall unpluggin anything like that on the passenger's side.

I didn't check all of the plugs but the ones I checked got no spark. Also I do have fuel pressure.

Luna thanks for that thread I had read before posting this, but I read it over and his problem seems to have been the crank position sensor.

Also, which one is the engine temp sensor?

 

you have to ground your plugs if you want them to spak... read above post ^^^^


If they still do not spark then you have found your problem.

 

yea i understand i have to ground them. i tested them three seperate times now, grounding each time, and no spark.

 

And you had some one turning the key while looking for sparks? (Motor trying to turn over?)


If so you have found your problem.

(If you are brave just to make sure there is no spark lightly hold onto the spark and see if you get zapped) Word of advice... if you decide to do this make sure you are only use one hand and not holding on to anything... i.e. put your left hand behind your back....

 

Just some good reading material:

Electronic Ignition (EI) System Description
The electronic ignition (EI) system is responsible for producing and controlling a high energy secondary spark. This spark is used to ignite the compressed air/fuel mixture at precisely the correct time. This provides optimal performance, fuel economy, and control of exhaust emissions. This ignition system consists of a separate ignition coil connected to each spark plug by a short secondary wire. The driver modules within each coil assembly are commanded ON/OFF by the powertrain control module (PCM). The PCM primarily uses engine speed and position information from the crankshaft and camshaft position (CMP) sensors to control the sequence, dwell, and timing of the spark. The EI system consists of the following components:

Crankshaft Position (CKP) Sensor
The crankshaft position (CKP) sensor is a three wire sensor based on the magneto resistive principle. A magneto resistive sensor uses two magnetic pickups between a permanent magnet. As an element such as a reluctor wheel passes the magnets the resulting change in the magnetic field is used by the sensor electronics to produce a digital output pulse. The PCM supplies a 12-volt, low reference, and signal circuit to the CKP sensor. The sensor returns a digital ON/OFF pulse 24 times per crankshaft revolution.

Crankshaft Reluctor Wheel
The crankshaft reluctor wheel is mounted on the rear of the crankshaft. The wheel is comprised of four 90 degree segments. Each segment represents a pair of cylinders at TDC , and is further divided into six 15 degree segments. Within each 15 degree segment is a notch of 1 of 2 different sizes. Each 90 degree segment has a unique pattern of notches. This is known as pulse width encoding. This pulse width encoded pattern allows the PCM to quickly recognize which pair of cylinders are at top dead center (TDC). The reluctor wheel is also a dual track-or mirror image-design. This means there is an additional wheel pressed against the first, with a gap of equal size to each notch of the mating wheel. When one sensing element of the CKP sensor is reading a notch, the other is reading a set of teeth. The resulting signals are then converted into a digital square wave output by the circuitry within the CKP sensor.

Camshaft Position (CMP) Sensor
The CMP sensor is also a magneto resistive sensor, with the same type of circuits as the CKP sensor. The CMP sensor signal is a digital ON/OFF pulse, output once per revolution of the camshaft. The CMP sensor information is used by the PCM to determine the position of the valve train relative to the CKP.

Camshaft Reluctor Wheel
The camshaft reluctor wheel is either pressed onto the camshaft or part of the timing gear depending on the application. The feature-or target- is read in a radial or axial fashion respectively. The wheel is a smooth track, half of which is of a lower profile than the other half. This feature allows the CMP sensor to supply a signal as soon as the key is turned ON, since the CMP sensor reads the track profile, instead of a notch.

Ignition Coils
Each ignition coil has an ignition 1 feed and a ground. The PCM supplies a low reference and an ignition control (IC) circuit. Each ignition coil contains a solid state driver module. The PCM will command the IC circuit ON, this allows the current to flow through the primary coil windings for the appropriate time or dwell. When the PCM commands the IC circuit OFF, this will interrupt current flow through the primary coil windings. The magnetic field created by the primary coil windings will collapse across the secondary coil windings, which induces a high voltage across the spark plug electrodes. The coils are current limited to prevent overloading if the IC current is held high too long. The spark plugs are connected to their respective coils by a short secondary wire. The spark plugs are tipped with iridium for long life and efficiency.

Powertrain Control Module (PCM)
The PCM controls all ignition system functions, and constantly corrects the basic spark timing. The PCM monitors information from various sensor inputs that include the following:

The throttle position (TP) sensor
The engine coolant temperature (ECT) sensor
The mass air flow (MAF) sensor
The intake air temperature (IAT) sensor
The vehicle speed sensor (VSS)
The transmission gear position or range information sensors
The engine knock sensors (KS)
Modes of Operation
There is one normal mode of operation, with the spark under PCM control. If the CKP pulses are lost the engine will not run. The loss of a CMP signal may result in a longer crank time since the PCM cannot determine which stroke the pistons are on. Diagnostic trouble codes are available to accurately diagnose the ignition system with a scan tool.

 

Viewsonic thanks for that good reading, now if I can only figure out which one of these isn't working. I may try the zap idea tomorrow as a last resort to make completely sure I am not getting any spark.

 

You can really rule out the:

Crankshaft Reluctor Wheel

Camshaft Reluctor Wheel

99.999999% chance these are not the culprit