Mac vs. Pacesetters
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Originally Posted by Cop Car
pacesetters fit perfect, and the headers themselves do not hang down further than the K member (means that they dont affect ground clearance)
My MACs dropped in from the top, all I had to do is remove the coil packs, valve covers and steering linkage. No scrapes anywhere but the U bolt clamp that I didn't trim the bolts off of after I installed it and my car is lowered pretty far.
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Originally Posted by Cop Car
$5 says that 00-02 stock manifolds with gutted cats flow better than mid/shorty headers. must use same y pipe.
#43
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Originally Posted by PontiacFan
So anyone who buys Mac's are considered uneducated dumbass's?!? ![Icon Lol](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies2/icon_lol.gif)
That's just wrong. Sounds like John Kerry.
IBTL, ...
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That's just wrong. Sounds like John Kerry.
IBTL, ...
#44
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Originally Posted by gillbot
If your budget is MAX $200, what do you suggest, just not getting any mods because you can't afford them?
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Originally Posted by jpat1023
Yep. Save money. Do it once, do it right.
#46
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Originally Posted by gillbot
Your idea of doing it right doesn't mean it is the RIGHT way. I'm perfectly happy with my purchase. By your logic, I did it wrong.
Pacesetters are like $375, so why not?
#47
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I think a lot of you are downing Macs without ever useing them yourself. I bought them wehn all others were over 1000 as well and kind of wish I would not have spent teh money to put the Edelbrocks on. I gained 5 hp from 420 with Macs to 425 with edelbrocks. I did gain alot down below 4000 but I have not went any quicker since adding more power. I now have 441/409 with the ffast 90 int and n/w t.b and have not matched the times I ran with the macs. as for sound , THe edelbrocks do sound better but the macs did not sound bad.
You guy's keep saying that when the headers were 1300 for other brands then it was ok to just spend 900 on the macs. same thing here , pacesetters are 375 macs are 200.
some people still want to save the few dollars.
Any one who wants Macs, tehy are not a bad header and fittment is awsome. the ceramic coating last a long time and the o2's did not give me any trouble. The edelbrocks dont seem to tune out as easy at Idle.
You guy's keep saying that when the headers were 1300 for other brands then it was ok to just spend 900 on the macs. same thing here , pacesetters are 375 macs are 200.
some people still want to save the few dollars.
Any one who wants Macs, tehy are not a bad header and fittment is awsome. the ceramic coating last a long time and the o2's did not give me any trouble. The edelbrocks dont seem to tune out as easy at Idle.
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Originally Posted by AINT SKEERED
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#51
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Originally Posted by AINT SKEERED
I think a lot of you are downing Macs without ever useing them yourself. I bought them wehn all others were over 1000 as well and kind of wish I would not have spent teh money to put the Edelbrocks on. I gained 5 hp from 420 with Macs to 425 with edelbrocks. I did gain alot down below 4000 but I have not went any quicker since adding more power. I now have 441/409 with the ffast 90 int and n/w t.b and have not matched the times I ran with the macs. as for sound , THe edelbrocks do sound better but the macs did not sound bad.
You guy's keep saying that when the headers were 1300 for other brands then it was ok to just spend 900 on the macs. same thing here , pacesetters are 375 macs are 200.
some people still want to save the few dollars.
Any one who wants Macs, tehy are not a bad header and fittment is awsome. the ceramic coating last a long time and the o2's did not give me any trouble. The edelbrocks dont seem to tune out as easy at Idle.
You guy's keep saying that when the headers were 1300 for other brands then it was ok to just spend 900 on the macs. same thing here , pacesetters are 375 macs are 200.
some people still want to save the few dollars.
Any one who wants Macs, tehy are not a bad header and fittment is awsome. the ceramic coating last a long time and the o2's did not give me any trouble. The edelbrocks dont seem to tune out as easy at Idle.
That's the most aggrivating part about the whole MAC/LT debate. Most are just passing on rumors.
Originally Posted by jpat1023
No, b/c when you purchased yours the only other thing was $1300 flp's, I have already said I think you did it right, I wouldn't spend $1300 on headers either. But if you had bought those recently, I would say Yes, you did it wrong.
Pacesetters are like $375, so why not?
Pacesetters are like $375, so why not?
THe only header I am contemplating purchasing right now are the ebay ones for the sole reason that they are stainless. If there was a company that could reproduce the MAC header in stainless for the same price, I'd be ALL over them in a second.
When I build my large cube motor, I may switch then. Heck, I may run it with the MACs then with LT's just to see how huge of a difference it really makes. As it stands right now though, 98% or more of the people I personally know that switched from MACs to LT's regrets the switch for a few reasons:
1) Small gain of about 5hp
2) COST
3) ground clearance issues with LTs
4) installation headaches
5) crappy y pipes
Most say that if they could do it over, they would have stuck with the MACs but they were suckered in by all the misinformation of those who say MACs suck though they never had a set or even tried them.
#52
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Originally Posted by gillbot
Not everyone is planning on going max effort with a huge h/c setup and not everyone needs that extra half second. If your budget is MAX $200, what do you suggest, just not getting any mods because you can't afford them? Why not get a set of "ok" headers for $200 and enjoy having more power than stock manifolds?
Besides, when you start putting that much money into a car for MAX effort, I KNOW macs aren't an option and frankly you'd be nuts to even consider putting $200 headers on a car with that much $ poured into it.
Besides, when you start putting that much money into a car for MAX effort, I KNOW macs aren't an option and frankly you'd be nuts to even consider putting $200 headers on a car with that much $ poured into it.
possibly the biggest bullshit argument you have is the cost of macs. you're comparing the price of used, rusted out mac headers to brand new pacesetters. i love your tainted logic.
http://thunderracing.com/catalog/?ac...&vid=3&pcid=52
mac headers and a catted y are $730.
http://www.texas-speed.com/shop/item...id=181&catid=8
pacesetter longtubes and a catted y are $700.
macs are MORE EXPENSIVE than pacesetter longtubes, stop comparing brand new pacesetters to shitty used mac headers.
so let's get this straight. you're going to pay MORE MONEY for an inferior header?
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Originally Posted by gillbot
1) Small gain of about 5hp
Last edited by ChocoTaco369; 11-28-2006 at 11:30 PM.
#53
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Wow... I wouldn't say it was a mistake to buy them, people have different goals in mind, maybe he really DOESNT like the ground clearance issues, or the other issues he listed. His purchase, let him do what he wants... and I don't think, for the record, he'd be "deep" into the 400s with LTs. 400+, yes... I think if someone wants to buy shorties or mids, let 'em. There's plenty of info here where a sensible person can make what is to them, an "INFORMED" decision. Whether we all agree, well... ![Chug! Chug! Chug!](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies/LS1Tech/gr_chug.gif)
Btw my gas needle is moving slower choco
-J
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Btw my gas needle is moving slower choco
-J
#54
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Originally Posted by lastcall190
Wow... I wouldn't say it was a mistake to buy them, people have different goals in mind, maybe he really DOESNT like the ground clearance issues, or the other issues he listed. His purchase, let him do what he wants... and I don't think, for the record, he'd be "deep" into the 400s with LTs. 400+, yes... I think if someone wants to buy shorties or mids, let 'em. There's plenty of info here where a sensible person can make what is to them, an "INFORMED" decision. Whether we all agree, well... ![Chug! Chug! Chug!](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies/LS1Tech/gr_chug.gif)
![Chug! Chug! Chug!](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies/LS1Tech/gr_chug.gif)
Originally Posted by lastcall190
Btw my gas needle is moving slower choco
-J
-J
#55
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Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369
what's setting me off is he's saying macs are $200. he's comparing someone's used, several year old rusted mac headers to brand new pacesetters. his argument is based on complete spin and he's lying right in front of everyone. if he's going to compared used mac headers, he has to compare them to used pacesetters, roughly the same price. of course, if he wants to compare new pacesetters, he has to compare them to new macs - which are MORE MONEY. i just hate seeing this spin. it's like politics in here.
good, glad to hear it. seafoam FTW!
good, glad to hear it. seafoam FTW!
![Engarde](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies3/engarde.gif)
That's still a badass number you put down for that cam through those wimpy mids
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-J
EDIT: HAHAHAHA nice sig
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I bought my macs many years ago there was not a big variety of headers. I also purchased both y pipes so I can switch cats on and off for inspections. If I could do it over again now sure I would go with a long tube since there are so many now. But the macs are staying on the car until they rust out.
#57
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Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369
what's setting me off is he's saying macs are $200. he's comparing someone's used, several year old rusted mac headers to brand new pacesetters. his argument is based on complete spin and he's lying right in front of everyone. if he's going to compared used mac headers, he has to compare them to used pacesetters, roughly the same price. of course, if he wants to compare new pacesetters, he has to compare them to new macs - which are MORE MONEY. i just hate seeing this spin. it's like politics in here.
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Last edited by jpat1023; 11-29-2006 at 02:24 PM.
#59
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Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369
possibly the biggest bullshit argument you have is the cost of macs. you're comparing the price of used, rusted out mac headers to brand new pacesetters. i love your tainted logic.
Originally Posted by gillbot
I still disagree. If you want some headers on a budget, you CAN NOT find better deals than a set of used MAC headers. That will net you nearly LT performance with under $200 SHIPPED. Show me a set of LT's near that price REPEATABLY and i'll retract my statement.
EDIT> Now that i've reread some of the posts, YOU were the one that claimed pacesetters were only $175 more so you need to look in the mirror and clear up YOUR OWN "circle of lies" about the header pricing.
Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369
the reason why you can get them for so cheap is because, frankly, no one really wants mac headers. they don't perform as well, period. yes, the difference between macs and longtubes is only around 5-10hp, but when you think about it, that's 25%-50% of the gains you get out of headers when longtubes are only worth 20-25hp as it is. why should you spend $200 on a set of headers that net you a third less gains when you can have ALL the gains for only $175 more? it makes no sense. macs, IMO, are useless.
![The Jester](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies/LS1Tech/gr_jest.gif)
And for the record, your pricing on MAC headers is quite a bit off. About 5 YEARS ago I bought my MACs BRAND NEW here on LS1Tech from a sponsor for under $500 shipped. They can still be purchased on ebay WITH Y pipe for under $500 shipped NEW. If my memory serves, MOST LT headers alone are about $300 plus shipping, then you have to buy a Y pipe and hope it fits.
I'm not going to even bother to pick apart the rest of your "tainted logic" since you obviously refuse to listen. If someone has $200 to spend and they want macs and are willing to sacrifice 5-10hp for it, have at it. Not my car so I really don't care if they get shorties. I will simply tell them that macs are FINE and YES, LT's will make a little more but they can buy whatever they want. I won't call them a moron or dumbass like others in this thread have because they care to save a few $ .
![Rolleyes](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies/LS1Tech/rolleyes.gif)
Originally Posted by lastcall190
Wow... I wouldn't say it was a mistake to buy them, people have different goals in mind, maybe he really DOESNT like the ground clearance issues, or the other issues he listed. His purchase, let him do what he wants... and I don't think, for the record, he'd be "deep" into the 400s with LTs. 400+, yes... I think if someone wants to buy shorties or mids, let 'em. There's plenty of info here where a sensible person can make what is to them, an "INFORMED" decision. Whether we all agree, well... ![Chug! Chug! Chug!](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies/LS1Tech/gr_chug.gif)
Btw my gas needle is moving slower choco
-J
![Chug! Chug! Chug!](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies/LS1Tech/gr_chug.gif)
Btw my gas needle is moving slower choco
-J
Last edited by gillbot; 11-29-2006 at 09:08 PM.
#60
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Originally Posted by gillbot
Do you think that throwing expletives into your statement will make me listen to you more?
Originally Posted by gillbot
Once again, I'll restate the FACTS so you can clear up your misconceptions.
Originally Posted by gillbot
I still disagree. If you want some headers on a budget, you CAN NOT find better deals than a set of used MAC headers. That will net you nearly LT performance with under $200 SHIPPED. Show me a set of LT's near that price REPEATABLY and i'll retract my statement.
Originally Posted by gillbot
I still disagree. If you want some headers on a budget, you CAN NOT find better deals than a set of used MAC headers. That will net you nearly LT performance with under $200 SHIPPED. Show me a set of LT's near that price REPEATABLY and i'll retract my statement.
Originally Posted by gillbot
There it is.... I compared them to ANY LT header available. Everyone else kept saying that pacesetters were $375. I simply stated SHOW me where you can reliably find ANY set of LT's used or new for the same price as USED MACs and i'd retract my statement.
![Rolleyes](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies/LS1Tech/rolleyes.gif)
here's a good link:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...ght=pacesetter
a guy sold pacesetters BRAND NEW, never installed with all hardware and gaskets for $295. so let's see, what's the better deal? underperforming, rusted mac headers for $200 or brand new pacesetters and all required hardware that give 20%-50% more horsepower over macs for $95 more? it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know pacesetters are the better deal.
Originally Posted by gillbot
EDIT> Now that i've reread some of the posts, YOU were the one that claimed pacesetters were only $175 more so you need to look in the mirror and clear up YOUR OWN "circle of lies" about the header pricing.
![Thumb](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies2/thumb.gif)
Originally Posted by gillbot
There is is. Man that is sweet. Apparently by you claiming that pacesetters only cost $175 more than MACs, that means that I am putting an unfair spin and "lying" to everyone? Interesting, your false statements mean that I am a liar. I'm going to have to use that one someday and see how well it goes over. ![The Jester](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies/LS1Tech/gr_jest.gif)
![The Jester](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies/LS1Tech/gr_jest.gif)
Originally Posted by gillbot
And for the record, your pricing on MAC headers is quite a bit off. About 5 YEARS ago I bought my MACs BRAND NEW here on LS1Tech from a sponsor for under $500 shipped. They can still be purchased on ebay WITH Y pipe for under $500 shipped NEW. If my memory serves, MOST LT headers alone are about $300 plus shipping, then you have to buy a Y pipe and hope it fits.
http://thunderracing.com/catalog/?ac...&vid=3&pcid=52
mac headers and catted y: $729.99
mac headers and ORY: $529.99
http://www.texas-speed.com/shop/cate...?MID=1&catid=8
pacesetter headers and catted y: $700
pacesetter headers and ORY: $500
there you have it, macs are more expensive than pacesetters brand new no matter how you look at it. this makes you wrong - in ALL areas. but why stop now? you've been lying this entire post.
Originally Posted by gillbot
I'm not going to even bother to pick apart the rest of your "tainted logic" since you obviously refuse to listen. If someone has $200 to spend and they want macs and are willing to sacrifice 5-10hp for it, have at it. Not my car so I really don't care if they get shorties. I will simply tell them that macs are FINE and YES, LT's will make a little more but they can buy whatever they want. I won't call them a moron or dumbass like others in this thread have because they care to save a few $ . ![Rolleyes](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies/LS1Tech/rolleyes.gif)
![Rolleyes](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies/LS1Tech/rolleyes.gif)
Originally Posted by gillbot
Spoken like a man who truly understands and can LISTEN to reason.
![Thumb](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies2/thumb.gif)
Last edited by ChocoTaco369; 11-29-2006 at 09:49 PM.