jpat1023

Umm...good plug...I guess....

gillbot

iTrader: (27)

I still fail to see where your posts are NOT opinionated. Don't act like mine are all opinion and yours are not.

MAC headers are not the best performers but until you stop trying to bully people into accepting your opinions, I will never give up. You will get a power gain from macs. They fit fine and YES, I know they are not the best performer but if you get a DEAL on them THEY ARE FINE. It is still a worthwile upgrade from manifolds. YES, LT's are better. I admit and know this. I usually recommend LT's unless you can get a great deal on macs, then I say they are a fine upgrade from stock.

Edit> BTW, your slanderous personal attacks mean nothing to me. It just shows your desperation to prove your point. It's my $, my car so WTF do you care?

And repeatedly telling people they are retarded or moronic if they bought a set of macs just further shows how childish you are. As I said earlier: until you stop trying to bully people into accepting your opinions, I will never give up Get off your high horse, admit MAC headers will give you a decent (NOT THE BEST) gain and they are a fine upgrade to manifolds IF you get a set for a GOOD PRICE. Otherwise, you are wasting your breath by speaking to me and you might as well just go away.

jpat1023

Are you talking to me? I thought I quit arguing with you on page 4?

O well, here it goes.

1. I never said your posts are opinionated and mine aren't. IIRC, I said "this whole argument has been opinionated." Because, when it comes down to it, it is each persons' opinion whether macs are worth it or if they should just go ahead and get long tubes.
2. I don't feel like I bullied my opinions around anymore than the next guy...I mean, ****, you are carrying on this argument with like 4 different people, and your going to talk to me about bullying?...
3. Although your offer sounds great, I think I will stay on my horse and continue to put down macs when compared to any long tube header. Now if you want to change the argument and say that macs are better than stock, then I will agree with you....but I'm pretty sure that is not the comparison this entire thread has been about.


edit: I personally attacked you? If I hurt your feelings I'm sorry...I guess...

ChocoTaco369

umm, because it's a fact that mac headers don't perform as well as pacesetter longtubes. i have provided links that show and new pacesetters are cheaper than new macs, and i have provided links of people selling used pacesetters for roughly the same price as macs, making your argument null and void. if you can't see it, you're as blind as a bat and ignorant to boot. but we both know the real reason, and that's you won't admit i'm right.

if you hadn't noticed, i don't have pacesetters OR macs. that makes me unbiased. i'm just calling out your bullshit and correcting your opinions and lies.

AFTICA

iTrader: (8)

[QUOTE=Cop Car] mid/shortys arent an improvement over stock manifolds. PERIOD.

This statement is wrong. PERIOD. Your putting mids and shortys in the same category when they're different animals.
Back when my car was just a bolt-on car I gained 2.5 tenths and 3 mph going to Macs w/ORY over the stock manifolds and gutted cats in almost identical DA's.No other changes.

Bought my Macs WAAAYYY back when we only had about two choices of headers. If I decide to do a set of heads I will consider a LT swap, otherwise my money is going to other areas of the car.

gillbot

iTrader: (27)

I never said you are FLAT wrong.... Plus everyone puts their own spin on everything they say. If noone had an opinion the world would be a boring place.

I simply stated that it's your OPINION that macs are worthless. MANY people prefer the fitment of them over LT's. That and the fact is they still make GOOD power. PLUS the fact that you consider those who will sacrifice a few HP for this fitment (and perhaps cost) a moron or retard shows that YOU will not admit that not everyone sees your opinion as godly as you think it is.

I READILY admit that LT's are better and if they can be had at the same price (or less) than macs, everyone should get them if they have nothing else. Personally, I don't see a reason to switch from macs to LT's unless you plan on adding other mods to accompany the upgrade to LT's.

FURTHERMORE, if you can get a set of MACs for REALLY CHEAP, I still will say they are FINE. Just keep in mind they are not the BEST.

Step off your high horse and admit MACs are OK if the price is right. Otherwise, you are just as big of a moron as those who "pathetically" buy mac headers.

I was talking to "Choco the Stubborn", which I find funny that he calls me stubborn when he should look in the mirror as well.

JPJBC

iTrader: (14)

Ok I didnt read all 6 pages of this argument but the first set of headers I bought were macs. As stated by some of the other guys I didnt feel like spending a grand or more for headers at the time.The y-pipe is junk but the headers can be made to flow pretty decent. Decent enough to make 525rwhp and run 10.4's on a stock 98 shortblock with cheap patriot heads an mti cam and a stock slipping 4l60E on a 100 shot. If you have the money buy some longtubes, but to say macs dont make any power is ridiculous.

ChocoTaco369

no one is saying macs don't make power. no one is saying macs are worthless headers. what everyone is saying is that for the SAME PRICE used and new, you can get pacesetters that outperform macs in every area and fit just as well and may be even easier to install. because of these FACTS that pacesetters are better performers with no compromise all for the same money, it makes getting macs a poor decision.

burnzilla

iTrader: (3)

You are.
Youure saying its pointless to get them if you can get LT's for the same price.
Thats not true.

Everyone.. who is everyone?
Yes choco, alot of people over the months have stated how much they love thier LT's, but many have also stated how much they love thier macs.
There have also been many threads and replies about LT's being a bitch to install.
LT's arer harder to install then Mids. Period.
Some say they never want to do it again.

Macs are not a poor decision, even if they do cost as much as Longtubes.

Some people get them for easier installation.
Some people get them because they are cheaper.
Some people get them because they don't plan to upgrade any further.

I see what youre saying Choco and you make one good, obvious point... that LT's out-perform mids... so what?... in some cases by 5 hp with stock internals?

And if nothing else, you guys need to relax... dayum.

ChocoTaco369

um, yes it is. longtubes perform better. they fit just as well. they are the same price. that means longtubes win or are equal in every aspect, making macs a poor decision in every way.

and there have also been countless threads of people wishing they went with LT's over macs and countless threads about people switching from LT's to macs and seeing big power gains and 1/4 mile improvements.

as with macs.

really? pacesetters are regarded as one of the easiest headers to install.

sounds like QTP's aren't a whole lot harder to install than macs. maybe even easier? factor in that pacesetters are easier to install than QTP's and you have possibly an easier installation with pacesetters.

sure, a lot of people make bad decisions on a daily basis.

and some people have a harder installation with them

but since they're actually more expensive new and the same price used, this scratches off this argument.

which is still a bad idea since you can expect a 5-10 horsepower loss for the same or more money

yes, they outperform in all aspects for the same or less money with no compromise in ground clearance since the low points reside in the y-pipe, not the headers, and relatively no harder installation. disadvantage: macs.

i just have a problem with outright liars. macs are a poor decision when you break it down.

please do not quote the 5 horsepower figure. that is peak horsepower. macs can't scavenge down low like longtubes. we need to look at the entire power curve. it may only be 5 horsepower at 5500 rpms, but down at 4000 rpm's, you may be looking at a 10+ horsepower loss. did you know the GM LS6 puts out 5 more horsepower than the GM LS2? but why does the LS2 win more races in the same car? because it puts out 30 more horsepower at the lower rpm's.

INMY01TA

iTrader: (1)

I feel dumber now for ever participating in this thread.

TheBlurLS1

iTrader: (8)

I feel smarter for not reading it, and even better since I'm going to lock it!