Mac vs. Pacesetters
Staging Lane
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 83
Likes: 0
Even if they cost a bit more... for a set of headers that will only cost him like 5 hp and fits like a glove as opposed to headers which he has installed multiple times that had fitment issues.... I don't understand what's so hard to comprehend about this.
I mean, what is 5 HP? Really?
I mean, what is 5 HP? Really?
Pacesetters fit perfectly. mid/shortys arent an improvement over stock manifolds. PERIOD.
its even in the FAQ section that mid/shortys give you no measureable hp diffrences.
if you mid/shorty guys want to prove it go out and find a car that is stock and dyno it with the same y pipe you are going to dyno everything else with, then you gut the cats, then you dyno again, then you install mid/shortys and dyno again, and then dyno with longtubes.
its even in the FAQ section that mid/shortys give you no measureable hp diffrences.
if you mid/shorty guys want to prove it go out and find a car that is stock and dyno it with the same y pipe you are going to dyno everything else with, then you gut the cats, then you dyno again, then you install mid/shortys and dyno again, and then dyno with longtubes.
Originally Posted by Cop Car
Pacesetters fit perfectly. mid/shortys arent an improvement over stock manifolds. PERIOD.
its even in the FAQ section that mid/shortys give you no measureable hp diffrences.
if you mid/shorty guys want to prove it go out and find a car that is stock and dyno it with the same y pipe you are going to dyno everything else with, then you gut the cats, then you dyno again, then you install mid/shortys and dyno again, and then dyno with longtubes.
its even in the FAQ section that mid/shortys give you no measureable hp diffrences.
if you mid/shorty guys want to prove it go out and find a car that is stock and dyno it with the same y pipe you are going to dyno everything else with, then you gut the cats, then you dyno again, then you install mid/shortys and dyno again, and then dyno with longtubes.
Originally Posted by ChocoWacko
it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know pacesetters are the better deal.
I'll just say that I'll keep telling people that macs are ok and you can say they suck. Let the BUYER decide what they want to get. All I ask is that you provide FACTS instead of opinion.
TECH Resident
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 932
Likes: 0
From: Texas
Originally Posted by NastySSoo
You are WRONG!!!Period!!
It has been covered already why I am right and why some think I am wrong, so you comming in here and quoting me and saying I'm wrong with nothing to back up your statement is useless......or maybe you just jumped on the mac bandwagon instead of the pacesetter bandwagon and really don't know what your talking about...hmm...either way, I, along with others, have argued about this for 4 pages now, do you really think I want to bring it all up again with someone who posts like you??
TECH Resident
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 932
Likes: 0
From: Texas
Originally Posted by gillbot
I'll just say that I'll keep telling people that macs are ok and you can say they suck. Let the BUYER decide what they want to get. All I ask is that you provide FACTS instead of opinion.
This whole argument has been opinionated...
Tech Resident
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,117
Likes: 3
From: Philly
Originally Posted by gillbot
Just because YOU think they are a better deal doesn't mean it is a FACT. MANY people prefer the fitment of the MAcs. I've installed ALOT of pacesetters and I wouldn't put them on my car if I was paid to. They fit horribly and I have known MANY people who got rid of pacesetters for that very reason.
I'll just say that I'll keep telling people that macs are ok and you can say they suck. Let the BUYER decide what they want to get. All I ask is that you provide FACTS instead of opinion.
I'll just say that I'll keep telling people that macs are ok and you can say they suck. Let the BUYER decide what they want to get. All I ask is that you provide FACTS instead of opinion.
facts:
- pacesetters perform better than macs across the entire powerband, even for stock power
- pacesetters and a y-pipe are cheaper than macs and a y-pipe brand new
- used pacesetter headers can be had for roughly the same price as used mac headers
- pacesetters are one of the best fitting headers on the market
if you think that pacesetters fit poorly, you have no idea what you're talking about and your opinion should be rendered null and void. apparently you've installed pacesetters 4 years ago when they had their old design. they were redesigned a few years ago and now they're one of the best, if not THE BEST fitting header on the market.
there's no point in arguing with you anymore. arguing with an idiot is pointless. they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience. let's review:
pacesetters, both new and used, are about the same exact price as macs and will outperform them in every single area.
again, if you want to buy an inferior header, please go and by macs. 99% of LS1tech will agree with me. you and your inferior headers can have a nice day. don't bother quoting me as i'm done talking to the brick wall that is you. you're just simply too proud to talk any sense in, and no matter what happens, you just won't admit that you're wrong. pride is one of the seven deadly sins, remember? if you need to make it sit in your mind that macs are a good buy, then have fun convincing yourself. just don't try and drag other people into making a $700 mistake.
Staging Lane
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by mullenh
that is what everyone does if they can. there is a draw back on long tubes if your car is slammed they will scrape.
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Will you people just stop arguing about it?!? It's just ridiculous to call each other names over crap like this. Everyone has an opinion & they are entitled to it. 
Here go read this for entertainment for a while, ...
http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles...ics/index.html
More reading for your own enjoyment, ...
http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles...est/index.html
http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles...est/index.html
Here go read this for entertainment for a while, ...
http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles...ics/index.html
More reading for your own enjoyment, ...
http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles...est/index.html
http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles...est/index.html
Last edited by PontiacFan; Nov 30, 2006 at 09:03 PM.
Originally Posted by PontiacFan
Will you people just stop arguing about it?!? It's just ridiculous to call each other names over crap like this. Everyone has an opinion & they are entitled to it.
Here go read this for entertainment for a while, ...
http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles...ics/index.html
Here go read this for entertainment for a while, ...
http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles...ics/index.html
sigh
Originally Posted by gillbot
I think you need to reread the faq. It shows that MACs perform DAM CLOSE to LT's.
Just because YOU think they are a better deal doesn't mean it is a FACT. MANY people prefer the fitment of the MAcs. I've installed ALOT of pacesetters and I wouldn't put them on my car if I was paid to. They fit horribly and I have known MANY people who got rid of pacesetters for that very reason.
I'll just say that I'll keep telling people that macs are ok and you can say they suck. Let the BUYER decide what they want to get. All I ask is that you provide FACTS instead of opinion.
Just because YOU think they are a better deal doesn't mean it is a FACT. MANY people prefer the fitment of the MAcs. I've installed ALOT of pacesetters and I wouldn't put them on my car if I was paid to. They fit horribly and I have known MANY people who got rid of pacesetters for that very reason.
I'll just say that I'll keep telling people that macs are ok and you can say they suck. Let the BUYER decide what they want to get. All I ask is that you provide FACTS instead of opinion.
Last edited by mullenh; Nov 30, 2006 at 10:58 PM. Reason: spelling
personal prefence man i have mac mids on my cam only auto z28 im putin down allmost 400hp though a 3500 stall and 4.10 gears...a friend of mine has the same set up with lts and hes only getting 374...so wutever some people say mids are a waste i say they arent its a very small dif 3-10hp pluss if you plan on lowering your car you wont scrape your headers..its scavaging realy
Originally Posted by Cop Car
Pacesetters fit perfectly. mid/shortys arent an improvement over stock manifolds. PERIOD.
its even in the FAQ section that mid/shortys give you no measureable hp diffrences.
if you mid/shorty guys want to prove it go out and find a car that is stock and dyno it with the same y pipe you are going to dyno everything else with, then you gut the cats, then you dyno again, then you install mid/shortys and dyno again, and then dyno with longtubes.
its even in the FAQ section that mid/shortys give you no measureable hp diffrences.
if you mid/shorty guys want to prove it go out and find a car that is stock and dyno it with the same y pipe you are going to dyno everything else with, then you gut the cats, then you dyno again, then you install mid/shortys and dyno again, and then dyno with longtubes.
Originally Posted by Cop Car
Pacesetters fit perfectly. mid/shortys arent an improvement over stock manifolds. PERIOD..
They test mids on this Mustang and get 17 more hp, 26 more Tq.
Problem is, its drops off after 5000 RPMS
http://www.mustang50magazine.com/how...id/index2.html
I do however agree that Longtubes are the way to go.
I bought macs when headers for these cars first came out. They have held up really well, but its time for some longtubes. Longtubes do make more power, but I agree that the ground clearence with these macs are fantastic.
Originally Posted by Cop Car
yeah well thats on a modular motor, not an LS1.
the good ol' apples to mutant sub atomic oranges comparison, i love this site sometimes.
the good ol' apples to mutant sub atomic oranges comparison, i love this site sometimes.
But you also must consider that the LS1 had basically shorty headers from the factory, so aftermarket shorties or mids wouldn't be as effective compared to most other cars.
On the other hand, LT1's are choked out from the factory, the intake (donkey slong) exhaust manifold and exhaust just plain stink.
Anything is an improvement on an LT1...
Although I do not like shorties, I do think a nice set of mids is ok for a stock or bolt on car.
And I had a dyno where they tested Mac Mids against BBK Shorties, and the mids did almost 30 tq, and over 20 hp in some spots, and the curve was smooth.
My vote will always go for LT's, but a nice set of mids aren't bad.
TECH Resident
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 932
Likes: 0
From: Texas
Originally Posted by burnzilla
True.
But you also must consider that the LS1 had basically shorty headers from the factory, so aftermarket shorties or mids wouldn't be as effective compared to most other cars.
But you also must consider that the LS1 had basically shorty headers from the factory, so aftermarket shorties or mids wouldn't be as effective compared to most other cars.
Originally Posted by burnzilla
On the other hand, LT1's are choked out from the factory, the intake (donkey slong) exhaust manifold and exhaust just plain stink.
Anything is an improvement on an LT1...
Anything is an improvement on an LT1...
Originally Posted by burnzilla
Although I do not like shorties, I do think a nice set of mids is ok for a stock or bolt on car.
And I had a dyno where they tested Mac Mids against BBK Shorties, and the mids did almost 30 tq, and over 20 hp in some spots, and the curve was smooth.
My vote will always go for LT's, but a nice set of mids aren't bad.
And I had a dyno where they tested Mac Mids against BBK Shorties, and the mids did almost 30 tq, and over 20 hp in some spots, and the curve was smooth.
My vote will always go for LT's, but a nice set of mids aren't bad.
How much irrelevant information can you bring to this thread? Not that any of it is wrong, its just most of it is unrelated to macs vs pacesetters...
At least you ended it saying your vote is for LT's.
damn i guess i have stirreed up a lot of **** lol thanks to everyone though... i got payed today and im soo close on clickin the buy it now for pacesetter ceramic coated lts ory and o2 extensions....i want to soo bad but i think im gonna wait a few more hours
Originally Posted by jpat1023
How much irrelevant information can you bring to this thread? Not that any of it is wrong, its just most of it is unrelated to macs vs pacesetters
All types of car owners view and use these threads, especially LT1 and LS1 owners.
This thread is about Macs (mids) and Pacesetters (LT's)
Mids and LTs. Mids and LTs.
None of the info I posted was irrelevant. Get of your horse.
And putting headers on different cars do have different effects, and LT1' are choked more so Mids and Shorties would make a bigger baseline difference.
NOTHING about that is irrelevant to someone who doesnt know, or is curious.