mullenh

iTrader: (1)

that is what everyone does if they can. there is a draw back on long tubes if your car is slammed they will scrape.

skywalkrNCSU

iTrader: (3)

i dont see much of a reason not to get the longtubes

its not like the mids will make your car pass emmissions

gillbot

iTrader: (27)

Sigh, another MAC hater's ball here.

I got MAC mids because at the time, the only other option was $1300 FLP's and no thanks. Plus, from all the LT's i've installed, my MACs fit 10,000x better and looking at the dyno graphs of people that switched from MACs to LTs, it's not worth it to me for such a small gain.

That being said, if you have nothing now and you can get a good price on LTs, get them but if you want a great budget header, get the MACs. I've seen MAC headers with Y pipe sell here for under $200 shipped. I highly doubt you'll find a better deal for LT's with a Y pipe.

jpat1023

Its not a 'Mac hater's ball', we are simply stating the facts. Back when you got your macs you had good reason to, I wouldn't spend $1300 on headers either. But now days, there is absolutely no reason not to get long tubes and do it right the first time. And a great budget header would be pacesetters, not macs, unless your going turbo or don't care about power and only want a better sound on your slammed to the ground f-body...

ChocoTaco369

grotyohann longtube headers. they don't make them anymore. they were one of the first and one of the best headers of their day, a design that many manufacturers that still make LS1 headers have taken their design from in part. i believe QTP uses the grotyohann design today for their headers. QTP is known as one of the best performing headers on the market, especially with their HVMC's.

INMY01TA

iTrader: (1)

I agree with ^^. Mac's are good, but no reason not to get Pacesetters.

gillbot

iTrader: (27)

I still disagree. If you want some headers on a budget, you CAN NOT find better deals than a set of used MAC headers. That will net you nearly LT performance with under $200 SHIPPED. Show me a set of LT's near that price REPEATABLY and i'll retract my statement.

Just browse the for sale section, you'll see MAC headers there for sale all day long for around $200 with a Y pipe.

ChocoTaco369

the reason why you can get them for so cheap is because, frankly, no one really wants mac headers. they don't perform as well, period. yes, the difference between macs and longtubes is only around 5-10hp, but when you think about it, that's 25%-50% of the gains you get out of headers when longtubes are only worth 20-25hp as it is. why should you spend $200 on a set of headers that net you a third less gains when you can have ALL the gains for only $175 more? it makes no sense. macs, IMO, are useless.

don't look at it as the horsepower, look at it as the percentage you're getting. if a catback is worth 10 horsepower on a stock car, but the flowmaster only nets you 3 horsepower, don't look at it as "well, it's ONLY 7 horsepower". no, you've lost SEVENTY PERCENT of the possible horsepower! that's HUGE. that is a big, big 7 horsepower. the reason why you have to look at it like this is because that power loss will increase exponentially. yea, macs are a 5-10 horsepower loss on a stock car, but add an agressive heads and cam package and you're in the hole 20-30 horsepower and you've lost half a second off your ET thanks to the macs. when you look at it like this, macs deserve to be sold for $200.

AINT SKEERED

iTrader: (2)

I gained hp from my macs to Edelbrock long tubes but the tq is better down low. At the track, my best pass to date was when I had the macs onthe car.

JCurtin

iTrader: (1)

I still run macs. Lid/macs/corsa 348/358 last time I hit the dyno. Not too shabby if you ask me. I understand different days, weather blah.blah...1st trip with same combo and slp maf was 342/357.

gillbot

iTrader: (27)

Apparently I still want them as I choose not to replace my macs with LT's on my and my wife's car. There are also other people out there still buying them also since there are so many mac threads here I can't even stand it anymore. I just love the MAC haters that assume they suck even though they never seen them or even tried them.

I like the fitment better, I prefer the prices and i'm willing to sacrifice that 5-10HP for it. IMHO, I still say my car didn't do too dam bad for hitting 399RWHP through a PT4000 converter and said "crappy" MAC headers.

orangeapeel

iTrader: (18)

How do you figure that?

jpat1023

Dude, are you really trying to argue that mac mids are just as good as long tubes? I mean seriously, do you really want the OP of this thread to pass up all the different options we have for long tube headers and go buy a set of mac mids like an uneducated dumbass??
I have already pointed out that I feel you made the right decision to go with macs back when the only other option was $1300 flp's....so what are you trying to argue?
Mids don't perform as good, don't sound as good, and now days are pretty much worthless compared to long tubes, that is why they sell for $200 shipped.
With all the options f-body owners have today, why in the hell would you recommend mac mids? Because their cheaper? Thats retarded, of course their cheaper, they aren't the same product as lt's. Thats like saying get a v6 instead of a v8 because its cheaper. Of course its cheaper!!
A situation where you could recommend something b/c its cheaper and still have a valid argument would be if we were comparing 'Kooks LT's vs. Pacesetter LT's'. At least this comparison involves similar products, in that they're both LT's...

Cop Car

iTrader: (14)

MAC mids flow as well as 00-02 exhaust manifolds.

either gut your cats and leave everything else alone or get longtubes. end of story.

INMY01TA

iTrader: (1)

Ha, bullcrap. I'm not the Mac rep or anything but you got them confused with shorties.

PontiacFan

iTrader: (104)

So anyone who buys Mac's are considered uneducated dumbass's?!?
That's just wrong. Sounds like John Kerry.

IBTL, ...

gillbot

iTrader: (27)

And if you care to READ what I posted, I still say they are a VALID option if you don't have the cash for a set of LT's. Plus I still think MACs fit WAY better than any set of LT's i've installed and I've done quite a few of MANY brands.

If you want to save some $, have good fitment and you are willing to sacrifice a few HP for it then YES MACS ARE WORTHWILE. I NEVER once said they are the best and most power making header out there. I'm just tired of people treating them with the same respect that stock manifolds get by MOST people who have never even used a set.

At one time I considered pulling my MACs for a set of pacesetters or flowtechs. After installing quite a few sets of LTs, seeing how poorly they fit and how crappy the Y pipe setup is, I passed. I KNOW I'm giving up 5-10hp but I like the fit and 399 to the wheels ain't too dam shabby with a cam/bolt-ons car WITHOUT LT's through stock untouched heads and a PT4000 converter.

Just to refresh:
Where am I saying MACs are better, looks to me like I admit you'll gain more with LT's.
Wait, there it is again.....

Ahh, there's thr clincher. MANY of us prefer not to dump all of our spare $ into our cars, nor do we need a max effort race car. A simple CHEAP header swap using MACs (while not being the BEST) is still a VERY good bargain at the prices people are selling them for especially used.

Not everyone is planning on going max effort with a huge h/c setup and not everyone needs that extra half second. If your budget is MAX $200, what do you suggest, just not getting any mods because you can't afford them? Why not get a set of "ok" headers for $200 and enjoy having more power than stock manifolds?

Besides, when you start putting that much money into a car for MAX effort, I KNOW macs aren't an option and frankly you'd be nuts to even consider putting $200 headers on a car with that much $ poured into it.

Cop Car

iTrader: (14)

pacesetters fit perfect, and the headers themselves do not hang down further than the K member (means that they dont affect ground clearance)

mvvette97

iTrader: (18)

I must be an uneducated dumbass because i bought the Mac headers. I like them very much. And they DO give you more power than stock manifolds. I hardly think that they are junk because if they were then why did I have such a hard time getting a set bought on ebay? When it comes to fitment you can't get any better. Easy to install with good hp gains and doesn't seem to have near the O2 problems that happens with longtubes. I would buy another set any day.

Cop Car

iTrader: (14)

$5 says that 00-02 stock manifolds with gutted cats flow better than mid/shorty headers. must use same y pipe.