Mac vs. Pacesetters
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From: Tree-Hugging, Bug eating CALI'
IMHO, this can be boiled down a little simpler.
If your preference is easier installation and good ground clearance, with a power increase, MACs are a good idea.
If you preference is making an investment for future mods' and you can make some concessions to ground clearance, ease-of-installation, and sometime fitment issues (and maybe pay a bit more) LTs are the way to go.
I started with MACs, went to QTP standard-collectors LTs, ad ended up with and keeping, QTP HVMCs. Despite having A LOT of installation issues with the MACs, they made good power, considering I had a canned tune.
With the standard QTPs, went in like butter, but had the regular clearance issues (SFCs didn't help matters). Ground clearance, although reduced, wasn't compromised much. They did cost a good bit more though. WITH a tune, I gained nearly 20 RWHP with them.
With the HVMCS, and a tune I gained another 12 RWHP, or so. Spend more money, but LOVE the look.
For me, at first, the MACs were a good idea. The sound was better than stock and I got more power. The LTs were better on power, not so much on the wallet, and a bit better sound. I suppose if you want to prioritize money and overall clearance, the MACs are a good bet. But, if you want to conceed a little more money, and don't want to buy a second set of headers later (like me), spend a little more, compromise a bit of clearance, and go with LTs.
Get a tune by all means!!!
Just my $.02.
If your preference is easier installation and good ground clearance, with a power increase, MACs are a good idea.
If you preference is making an investment for future mods' and you can make some concessions to ground clearance, ease-of-installation, and sometime fitment issues (and maybe pay a bit more) LTs are the way to go.
I started with MACs, went to QTP standard-collectors LTs, ad ended up with and keeping, QTP HVMCs. Despite having A LOT of installation issues with the MACs, they made good power, considering I had a canned tune.
With the standard QTPs, went in like butter, but had the regular clearance issues (SFCs didn't help matters). Ground clearance, although reduced, wasn't compromised much. They did cost a good bit more though. WITH a tune, I gained nearly 20 RWHP with them.
With the HVMCS, and a tune I gained another 12 RWHP, or so. Spend more money, but LOVE the look.
For me, at first, the MACs were a good idea. The sound was better than stock and I got more power. The LTs were better on power, not so much on the wallet, and a bit better sound. I suppose if you want to prioritize money and overall clearance, the MACs are a good bet. But, if you want to conceed a little more money, and don't want to buy a second set of headers later (like me), spend a little more, compromise a bit of clearance, and go with LTs.
Get a tune by all means!!!
Just my $.02.
the whole reason for getting shorty/mids on a camaro is to keep ground clearance? thats the worst claim ever.
pacesetters dont cost you a inch of ground clerance, and they are a perfect fit.
there is a place for shorty/mids, and thats on LS1 swapped vehicles that dont have long tubes offered for them and stock manifolds dont fit
pacesetters dont cost you a inch of ground clerance, and they are a perfect fit.
there is a place for shorty/mids, and thats on LS1 swapped vehicles that dont have long tubes offered for them and stock manifolds dont fit
Staging Lane
Joined: Apr 2002
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Originally Posted by mattraypharbor
personal prefence man i have mac mids on my cam only auto z28 im putin down allmost 400hp though a 3500 stall and 4.10 gears...a friend of mine has the same set up with lts and hes only getting 374...so wutever some people say mids are a waste i say they arent its a very small dif 3-10hp pluss if you plan on lowering your car you wont scrape your headers..its scavaging realy
Originally Posted by jpat1023
^^You put a Real cam in that thing and the difference will continue to grow in favor of the long tubes.
Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369
talking to you is like talking to a brick wall.
there's no point in arguing with you anymore. arguing with an idiot is pointless. they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience. let's review:
just don't try and drag other people into making a $700 mistake.
there's no point in arguing with you anymore. arguing with an idiot is pointless. they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience. let's review:
just don't try and drag other people into making a $700 mistake.
We've already established that MAC's are not well of a performer as LTs. No point in arguing that since I agree with you. You just like to hear your self talk (or see yourself post) just so you seem important.
I installed a set of pacesetters THIS SUMMER. They were garbage. If the ones I installed were an old design and they have a new design, I have not seen it. I also said from MY EXPERIENCE with LT's so I still speak in FACT.
Originally Posted by radz282003
IMHO, this can be boiled down a little simpler.
If your preference is easier installation and good ground clearance, with a power increase, MACs are a good idea.
If you preference is making an investment for future mods' and you can make some concessions to ground clearance, ease-of-installation, and sometime fitment issues (and maybe pay a bit more) LTs are the way to go.
I started with MACs, went to QTP standard-collectors LTs, ad ended up with and keeping, QTP HVMCs. Despite having A LOT of installation issues with the MACs, they made good power, considering I had a canned tune.
With the standard QTPs, went in like butter, but had the regular clearance issues (SFCs didn't help matters). Ground clearance, although reduced, wasn't compromised much. They did cost a good bit more though. WITH a tune, I gained nearly 20 RWHP with them.
With the HVMCS, and a tune I gained another 12 RWHP, or so. Spend more money, but LOVE the look.
For me, at first, the MACs were a good idea. The sound was better than stock and I got more power. The LTs were better on power, not so much on the wallet, and a bit better sound. I suppose if you want to prioritize money and overall clearance, the MACs are a good bet. But, if you want to conceed a little more money, and don't want to buy a second set of headers later (like me), spend a little more, compromise a bit of clearance, and go with LTs.
Get a tune by all means!!!
Just my $.02.
If your preference is easier installation and good ground clearance, with a power increase, MACs are a good idea.
If you preference is making an investment for future mods' and you can make some concessions to ground clearance, ease-of-installation, and sometime fitment issues (and maybe pay a bit more) LTs are the way to go.
I started with MACs, went to QTP standard-collectors LTs, ad ended up with and keeping, QTP HVMCs. Despite having A LOT of installation issues with the MACs, they made good power, considering I had a canned tune.
With the standard QTPs, went in like butter, but had the regular clearance issues (SFCs didn't help matters). Ground clearance, although reduced, wasn't compromised much. They did cost a good bit more though. WITH a tune, I gained nearly 20 RWHP with them.
With the HVMCS, and a tune I gained another 12 RWHP, or so. Spend more money, but LOVE the look.
For me, at first, the MACs were a good idea. The sound was better than stock and I got more power. The LTs were better on power, not so much on the wallet, and a bit better sound. I suppose if you want to prioritize money and overall clearance, the MACs are a good bet. But, if you want to conceed a little more money, and don't want to buy a second set of headers later (like me), spend a little more, compromise a bit of clearance, and go with LTs.
Get a tune by all means!!!
Just my $.02.
Originally Posted by orangeapeel
How do you figure that? I still say MACS. They fit great and they DO give you more power than the stock manifolds. For those of you that think that they don't give you any more power than the stock manifold, I think you need to do a little more research 
Tech Resident
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,117
Likes: 3
From: Philly
Originally Posted by gillbot
Finally a logical post. I higlited the VALID ponts unlike Chocko's ramblings of opinion.
- pacesetters are one of the easiest to install header (you probably installed a shitty old set from many years ago)
- pacesetters will always outperform macs
- pacesetters are cheaper than macs new
- used pacesetters are roughly about the same price as used macs
exactly what i've said since post one, all facts, unlike the bullshit opinions you try to pass off as facts. you like macs. big deal. you obviously need to justify your wasted money in your own mind or you can't sleep at night. again, don't drag other people into making your mistake.
and macs aren't a 5 horspower loss. that is best case scenario in favor of macs. throw in a tune, it's more than 5 horsepower. throw on heads and a cam and it's 20-30 horsepower. read the top post. a 20rwhp gain from shitty macs to LT's. besides, this is all peak horsepower. let's talk about rpm's. you'll see an even greater loss across the entire powerband due to shitty macs and their poor ability to scavenge. you're comparing peak numbers only. compare the whole powerband and you see that macs really do lack more than you think.
but please gillbot, give us more personal opinion. we'd all love for you to justify your purchase some more
Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369
FACTS:
- pacesetters are one of the easiest to install header (you probably installed a shitty old set from many years ago)
- pacesetters will always outperform macs
- pacesetters are cheaper than macs new
- used pacesetters are roughly about the same price as used macs
exactly what i've said since post one, all facts, unlike the bullshit opinions you try to pass off as facts. you like macs. big deal. you obviously need to justify your wasted money in your own mind or you can't sleep at night. again, don't drag other people into making your mistake.
and macs aren't a 5 horspower loss. that is best case scenario in favor of macs. throw in a tune, it's more than 5 horsepower. throw on heads and a cam and it's 20-30 horsepower. read the top post. a 20rwhp gain from shitty macs to LT's. besides, this is all peak horsepower. let's talk about rpm's. you'll see an even greater loss across the entire powerband due to shitty macs and their poor ability to scavenge. you're comparing peak numbers only. compare the whole powerband and you see that macs really do lack more than you think.
but please gillbot, give us more personal opinion. we'd all love for you to justify your purchase some more
- pacesetters are one of the easiest to install header (you probably installed a shitty old set from many years ago)
- pacesetters will always outperform macs
- pacesetters are cheaper than macs new
- used pacesetters are roughly about the same price as used macs
exactly what i've said since post one, all facts, unlike the bullshit opinions you try to pass off as facts. you like macs. big deal. you obviously need to justify your wasted money in your own mind or you can't sleep at night. again, don't drag other people into making your mistake.
and macs aren't a 5 horspower loss. that is best case scenario in favor of macs. throw in a tune, it's more than 5 horsepower. throw on heads and a cam and it's 20-30 horsepower. read the top post. a 20rwhp gain from shitty macs to LT's. besides, this is all peak horsepower. let's talk about rpm's. you'll see an even greater loss across the entire powerband due to shitty macs and their poor ability to scavenge. you're comparing peak numbers only. compare the whole powerband and you see that macs really do lack more than you think.
but please gillbot, give us more personal opinion. we'd all love for you to justify your purchase some more
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Tech Resident
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,117
Likes: 3
From: Philly
Originally Posted by mvvette97
Have you personaly ran Mac headers? I can't say how much power you will get from either but I can say that the feel of the power gain was about the same as when I installed longtubes on my vette. Don't know if this is true but I was told the biggest thing about longtubes is that they give you more torque than the Macs. I like the longtubes on my C5 but they were about 20 times harder to install and the from the gains I got from both I say on an Fbody macs are the way to go.
Originally Posted by thebufenator
soooooo.....is there any option if I want to have emissions legal exhaust?
Staging Lane
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by thebufenator
soooooo.....is there any option if I want to have emissions legal exhaust?
Staging Lane
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
[QUOTE=ChocoTaco369]i've seen dyno graphs of swaps from macs to longtubes, being the only change, along with timeslip improvements of about 0.2 tenths from nothing more than a mac to LT swap. the "butt dyno" is meaningless. i could tell you i put a mod on your car when you were sleeping. you'd probably feel a difference if i told you there was 10 more horsepower. it's a placebo effect.
I dream of that every night, that a mod is made to my car while I sleep!
I dream of that every night, that a mod is made to my car while I sleep!
Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369
i've seen dyno graphs of swaps from macs to longtubes, being the only change, along with timeslip improvements of about 0.2 tenths from nothing more than a mac to LT swap. the "butt dyno" is meaningless. i could tell you i put a mod on your car when you were sleeping. you'd probably feel a difference if i told you there was 10 more horsepower. it's a placebo effect.
if you're in california, your only options are stock manifolds, ported stock manifolds or shorties with a CARB number. while shorties will net the best gains, you have to decide if $500 is worth 5-7 horsepower.
if you're in california, your only options are stock manifolds, ported stock manifolds or shorties with a CARB number. while shorties will net the best gains, you have to decide if $500 is worth 5-7 horsepower.
[QUOTE=six8fbird]
No desire to jump into controversy but I do know that races are decided in tenths of a second.
Love my coated pacesetter LT's. Have no negative issues (clearance,etc) and love how they sound. Have a friend with a Camaro that has similar mods, who installed some Macs ,and after driving my car said he wished he would have done the LT's
Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369
i've seen dyno graphs of swaps from macs to longtubes, being the only change, along with timeslip improvements of about 0.2 tenths from nothing more than a mac to LT swap. the "butt dyno" is meaningless. i could tell you i put a mod on your car when you were sleeping. you'd probably feel a difference if i told you there was 10 more horsepower. it's a placebo effect.
I dream of that every night, that a mod is made to my car while I sleep!
I dream of that every night, that a mod is made to my car while I sleep!
No desire to jump into controversy but I do know that races are decided in tenths of a second.
Love my coated pacesetter LT's. Have no negative issues (clearance,etc) and love how they sound. Have a friend with a Camaro that has similar mods, who installed some Macs ,and after driving my car said he wished he would have done the LT's
Staging Lane
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 63
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My 01 SS<-------------------- Lowered 2". I understand there is no clearance issues with LT on stock ride height fbodys. But does any one have LTs on a lowered Fbody? If so I would like to know in fact that the flanges or other part exhaust is gonna cause clearance issues.
Tech Resident
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,117
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From: Philly
Originally Posted by six8fbird
My 01 SS<-------------------- Lowered 2". I understand there is no clearance issues with LT on stock ride height fbodys. But does any one have LTs on a lowered Fbody? If so I would like to know in fact that the flanges or other part exhaust is gonna cause clearance issues.
Originally Posted by six8fbird
My 01 SS<-------------------- Lowered 2". I understand there is no clearance issues with LT on stock ride height fbodys. But does any one have LTs on a lowered Fbody? If so I would like to know in fact that the flanges or other part exhaust is gonna cause clearance issues.
TECH Resident
Joined: Jun 2005
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From: Texas
Originally Posted by Cop Car
lowest part on a Pacesetter header/ y pipe set up is the y pipe, and with macs you replace the y pipe anyways, so you have the exact same ground clearance
My Y-pipe hangs significantly lower than my pacesetters...but that can be fixed if I ever feel like taking apart the Y-pipe and tucking it up under the car better. 
I stand by the belief that you get what you pay for
Especially with mods on these cars, do it right and do it right the first time!
Check out American Racing Headers!
They are built AWESOME and are probably the nicest headers you can find for these cars.
You can check them out and pics here
If you want direct contact info. for them, you can PM me
Especially with mods on these cars, do it right and do it right the first time!
Check out American Racing Headers!
They are built AWESOME and are probably the nicest headers you can find for these cars.
You can check them out and pics here
If you want direct contact info. for them, you can PM me