lol 
True Duals Cost POWER!?!?!??
Tech Resident
Joined: Jan 2006
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From: Philly
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showpost....1&postcount=29
This is the Bassani TD kit vs. Borla. HUGE gains over the Borla. HUGE! And that's on the stock tune with stock manifolds and cats. The Bassani even uses a full-sized muffler, so duals like the TSP kit will bullets will even outperform the Bassani. That is absolutely enormous.
Duals. Outperform. Y-pipe. Setups. That's why drag cars required to run exhaust systems run TD's. It's no mistake that drag cars don't run Y-pipe setups. Y-pipe setups sound like **** and, compared to TD, perform like ****.
I can't believe that you think it's an OPINION that TD's outperform Y-pipe setups
Jordan's right. Reading this thread is like suffering through a head injury. To the OP: the amount of power you could lose due to the extra piping and bends will be so small that it's not even worth worrying about.
Last edited by tylerdj; Feb 27, 2008 at 04:57 PM.
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 661
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From: Shreveport,Louisiana
Refer to this thread:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...&highlight=500
This is Patrick G making over 500 hp on a naturally aspirated hydraulic cammed, pump gas, 5.7L motor. And it was done with a y-pipe.
Its gets better:
Now I don't know about you but in my book 1 hp difference from open headers and even more torque between 2500-4000 is about as good as you can get. Find a true dual setup that makes more power than that from a 5.7L and I'll believe you. People go to the true duals for the sound period. But, you pay the price: ground clearance, period. And I doubt you would make that much more power if any than a well designed y-pipe as described in the thread above.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...&highlight=500
This is Patrick G making over 500 hp on a naturally aspirated hydraulic cammed, pump gas, 5.7L motor. And it was done with a y-pipe.
Its gets better:
Now I don't know about you but in my book 1 hp difference from open headers and even more torque between 2500-4000 is about as good as you can get. Find a true dual setup that makes more power than that from a 5.7L and I'll believe you. People go to the true duals for the sound period. But, you pay the price: ground clearance, period. And I doubt you would make that much more power if any than a well designed y-pipe as described in the thread above.
Its all for the sound pal . And if you really are concerned about the SOUND , the H-PIPE sounds a hell of a lot better than any ole X-Pipe at a cost of about .5 HP !
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showpost....1&postcount=29
This is the Bassani TD kit vs. Borla. HUGE gains over the Borla. HUGE! And that's on the stock tune with stock manifolds and cats. The Bassani even uses a full-sized muffler, so duals like the TSP kit will bullets will even outperform the Bassani. That is absolutely enormous.
Duals. Outperform. Y-pipe. Setups. That's why drag cars required to run exhaust systems run TD's. It's no mistake that drag cars don't run Y-pipe setups. Y-pipe setups sound like **** and, compared to TD, perform like ****.
I can't believe that you think it's an OPINION that TD's outperform Y-pipe setups
Jordan's right. Reading this thread is like suffering through a head injury.BOO-YA!
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From: Tuscaloosa, AL.
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,875
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From: Naperville, IL
Duals. Outperform. Y-pipe. Setups. That's why drag cars required to run exhaust systems run TD's. It's no mistake that drag cars don't run Y-pipe setups. Y-pipe setups sound like **** and, compared to TD, perform like ****.
I can't believe that you think it's an OPINION that TD's outperform Y-pipe setups Jordan's right. Reading this thread is like suffering through a head injury.
I can't believe that you think it's an OPINION that TD's outperform Y-pipe setups
Jordan's right. Reading this thread is like suffering through a head injury.I learned a lot here on Tech about LSx cars. I learned a lot working with my Turbo Buick over the last 13 years. I learned alot working a shop for 7 years. I know you can NEVER be wrong choco, but reading posts like yours is more like suffering through a head injury. Stock configuration y-pipes sound like crap, yes. Put a parallel merge burns stainless Y on it, and it will NOT sound like ****. You get a shitty TD setup like Texas Speed's system, and it is NOT going to outperform a well designed Y-pipe. You take their X-pipe TD system, and replace it with Patrick's y-pipe system (that one is a PROPER setup, not a 90 degree merge it's parallel merge, and it's not two 3" pipes into a single 3" pipe it's two 3" pipes into a 4" pipe) and watch the proper y-pipe outperform TSP's TD's. I mean, just look at that design, do you seriously think crashing gasses into each other like that is good for flow?
Threads like this just make me shake my head and not want to post here anymore, and are half the reason all the big tech guys also left to other sites.
^^This is the main point. You all can argue about x versus y all day long but what it really comes down to is how each one is designed and the research put into it. A properly designed Y-pipe will flow better than an improperly designed X-pipe system and vice versa all day every day.
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Joined: Apr 2006
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From: Naperville, IL
^^This is the main point. You all can argue about x versus y all day long but what it really comes down to is how each one is designed and the research put into it. A properly designed Y-pipe will flow better than an improperly designed X-pipe system and vice versa all day every day.
Tech Resident
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,117
Likes: 3
From: Philly
Not. In. Every. Case.
I learned a lot here on Tech about LSx cars. I learned a lot working with my Turbo Buick over the last 13 years. I learned alot working a shop for 7 years. I know you can NEVER be wrong choco, but reading posts like yours is more like suffering through a head injury. Stock configuration y-pipes sound like crap, yes. Put a parallel merge burns stainless Y on it, and it will NOT sound like ****. You get a shitty TD setup like Texas Speed's system, and it is NOT going to outperform a well designed Y-pipe. You take their X-pipe TD system, and replace it with Patrick's y-pipe system (that one is a PROPER setup, not a 90 degree merge it's parallel merge, and it's not two 3" pipes into a single 3" pipe it's two 3" pipes into a 4" pipe) and watch the proper y-pipe outperform TSP's TD's. I mean, just look at that design, do you seriously think crashing gasses into each other like that is good for flow?
Threads like this just make me shake my head and not want to post here anymore, and are half the reason all the big tech guys also left to other sites.
I learned a lot here on Tech about LSx cars. I learned a lot working with my Turbo Buick over the last 13 years. I learned alot working a shop for 7 years. I know you can NEVER be wrong choco, but reading posts like yours is more like suffering through a head injury. Stock configuration y-pipes sound like crap, yes. Put a parallel merge burns stainless Y on it, and it will NOT sound like ****. You get a shitty TD setup like Texas Speed's system, and it is NOT going to outperform a well designed Y-pipe. You take their X-pipe TD system, and replace it with Patrick's y-pipe system (that one is a PROPER setup, not a 90 degree merge it's parallel merge, and it's not two 3" pipes into a single 3" pipe it's two 3" pipes into a 4" pipe) and watch the proper y-pipe outperform TSP's TD's. I mean, just look at that design, do you seriously think crashing gasses into each other like that is good for flow?
Threads like this just make me shake my head and not want to post here anymore, and are half the reason all the big tech guys also left to other sites.
No, the TD's outperform in EVERY CASE. If you take a muffler that flows the same CFM, total pipe diameter that flows the same, cats that flow the same, etc...the X-pipe TD's will ALWAYS outperform the y-pipe because the X-merge scavenges better. The X-pipe TD's will ALWAYS outperform the y-pipe. Always. The y-merge is limited by DESIGN. It's the same reason why no matter what parts you dump into a 4L60E, it won't hold 2,000 horsepower, ever. It's flawed by design. Get that through your head.
Just because people have had great results with a y-pipe setup doesn't mean it's as good as TD's. It CAN'T be because a y-merge cannot scavenge what an X-merge can. There is no debate on this.
Again, there's a reason why drag cars run true duals. I guess all those hardcore racers at the strip are wrong for not running y-pipe setups
You're wrong. The ONLY possible exception may be a rear-mounted turbo. Stop trying to come up with crazy scenarios for defending a y-pipe. They suck. They don't perform as well as the equal TD scenario, they don't sound nearly as good...they suck.
Tech Resident
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,117
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From: Philly
Because you said so I could say I'm right for saying 2+2=10. I'm right, guys, because I said so! Nevermind the fact I'm clearly wrong. I'm right because I say I am.
A Y-merge CANNOT outscavenge an X-merge. It's a DESIGN FLAW. It doesn't matter how nice the bends in the pipes are. It doesn't matter what mufflers you use. Cutout placement won't matter. Quality of the pipe will not matter. The Y-merge ITSELF is the bottleneck here. This is why a Y-pipe setup can NEVER achieve what TD's can in the equal case.
Again, the only exception is a rear-mount turbo setup, which is the only scenario where it makes sense to run a Y-merge.
We're talking about the ideal case, here. Not the case where the y-pipe setup is beautiful and the X-pipe setup is a slapped-together piece of ****.
I could say I'm right for saying 2+2=10. I'm right, guys, because I said so! Nevermind the fact I'm clearly wrong. I'm right because I say I am.A Y-merge CANNOT outscavenge an X-merge. It's a DESIGN FLAW. It doesn't matter how nice the bends in the pipes are. It doesn't matter what mufflers you use. Cutout placement won't matter. Quality of the pipe will not matter. The Y-merge ITSELF is the bottleneck here. This is why a Y-pipe setup can NEVER achieve what TD's can in the equal case.
Again, the only exception is a rear-mount turbo setup, which is the only scenario where it makes sense to run a Y-merge.
We're talking about the ideal case, here. Not the case where the y-pipe setup is beautiful and the X-pipe setup is a slapped-together piece of ****.
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 450
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check this out when i got my car i took out the muffler in the back and replaced it with a bullet much like a loudmouth set up. then took it out and put the Td's and there is most definetly a difference in power that you can feel........like said before its really not that hard to figure out....to outflow a Td setup of 2.5 piping you would have to have a y peipe that merged into a 5 inch pipe.....plus scavenging effect of the x pipe...im no genious but that sounds logical....thats why i payed no more than 250 for mine with x pipe and 2 bullets running all the way to the back from the headers installed!!!......
the way i thout about it y pipe 150 alone cat back about 400...at the end of the day i payed 400 for my longtubes and 250 for the TD setup, gaining more power with less money.......
the way i thout about it y pipe 150 alone cat back about 400...at the end of the day i payed 400 for my longtubes and 250 for the TD setup, gaining more power with less money.......
Tech Resident
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,117
Likes: 3
From: Philly
check this out when i got my car i took out the muffler in the back and replaced it with a bullet much like a loudmouth set up. then took it out and put the Td's and there is most definetly a difference in power that you can feel........like said before its really not that hard to figure out....to outflow a Td setup of 2.5 piping you would have to have a y peipe that merged into a 5 inch pipe.....plus scavenging effect of the x pipe...im no genious but that sounds logical....thats why i payed no more than 250 for mine with x pipe and 2 bullets running all the way to the back from the headers installed!!!......
the way i thout about it y pipe 150 alone cat back about 400...at the end of the day i payed 400 for my longtubes and 250 for the TD setup, gaining more power with less money.......
the way i thout about it y pipe 150 alone cat back about 400...at the end of the day i payed 400 for my longtubes and 250 for the TD setup, gaining more power with less money.......
The reason why TD's outperform y-pipe setups is the merge. The X-merge is vastly superior to the y-merge. That is why it's physically impossible for a y-pipe setup to outperform an equally well-made, equally well-flowing X-pipe TD setup.
Y-pipes are inferior by design. No matter how well they flow, they just can't generate the scavenging/exhaust velocity that a TD set can achieve.
It's not the "flow" that makes TD's better than a y-pipe. You can make a y-pipe setup flow just as well as TD's. You just need larger diameter exhaust pipe. You can EASILY make a y-pipe setup flow as well as TD's.
The reason why TD's outperform y-pipe setups is the merge. The X-merge is vastly superior to the y-merge. That is why it's physically impossible for a y-pipe setup to outperform an equally well-made, equally well-flowing X-pipe TD setup.
Y-pipes are inferior by design. No matter how well they flow, they just can't generate the scavenging/exhaust velocity that a TD set can achieve.
The reason why TD's outperform y-pipe setups is the merge. The X-merge is vastly superior to the y-merge. That is why it's physically impossible for a y-pipe setup to outperform an equally well-made, equally well-flowing X-pipe TD setup.
Y-pipes are inferior by design. No matter how well they flow, they just can't generate the scavenging/exhaust velocity that a TD set can achieve.
To even suggest that you know more that PatrickG is just plain ludicrous. Add a 150 shot to your car and you still won't have the RWHP he is putting out. I would put my money on his is more streetable also. Hell, PatrickG has **** turds with more automotive knowledge than you.
Have a nice day.
Galen
Last edited by Galen; Feb 29, 2008 at 05:57 AM.