Need some inexpensive 1 7/8" headers...
A sponsor is apparently "developing" some SS headers at a REASONABLE PRICE - but they will be too late for my build, certain sponsors have the Edelbrocks, and there are the various iterations of the "headers that shall not be named", and I am looking closely at all of them.
I really wish somebody would step up with a $300-$400 complete set of stainless steel 1 7/8" headers and aluminized Y pipe with all the ancillary doo-dads, and then throw the weight of their reputation as a good shop behind them.
I'm pretty sure it can be done, I have cash in hand, and they'd own the LSx world as far as headers are concerned.
I really wish somebody would step up with a $300-$400 complete set of stainless steel 1 7/8" headers and aluminized Y pipe with all the ancillary doo-dads, and then throw the weight of their reputation as a good shop behind them.
I'm pretty sure it can be done, I have cash in hand, and they'd own the LSx world as far as headers are concerned.
LMAO thats hilarious, dude c'mon thats rediculous, the TSP's are the best price for what your looking for, if you dont like that go to ebay. Sorry to be rude but what you are asking for is not do-able.
I buy stuff (fasteners... steel...) for a LIVING.
Your statement of "not-doable" comes from exactly what experience? Because someone else is charging twice to three times as much?
Here's a fact: Stainless steel (any stainless, 312 or 304, doesn't matter much...) is MUCH more expensive than mild or carbon steels. 5x as expensive per pound is a good rough approximation. If you are calculating material costs, any stainless steel header is starting out at a huge material cost disadvantage.
Do you really think these are being sold at a loss? NO. They're making a resonable profit - otherwise, they'd be out of business in a heartbeat.
Note the word "reasonable" in the above.
Last edited by PacerX; Jun 26, 2008 at 12:08 PM.
Sorry to be rude, but you have no idea what you're talking about.
I buy stuff (fasteners... steel...) for a LIVING.
Your statement of "not-doable" comes from exactly what experience? Because someone else is charging twice to three times as much?
Here's a fact: Stainless steel (any stainless, 312 or 304, doesn't matter much...) is MUCH more expensive than mild or carbon steels. 5x as expensive per pound is a good rough approximation. If you are calculating material costs, any stainless steel header is starting out at a huge material cost disadvantage.
Do you really think these are being sold at a loss? NO. They're making a resonable profit - otherwise, they'd be out of business in a heartbeat.
Note the word "reasonable" in the above.
I buy stuff (fasteners... steel...) for a LIVING.
Your statement of "not-doable" comes from exactly what experience? Because someone else is charging twice to three times as much?
Here's a fact: Stainless steel (any stainless, 312 or 304, doesn't matter much...) is MUCH more expensive than mild or carbon steels. 5x as expensive per pound is a good rough approximation. If you are calculating material costs, any stainless steel header is starting out at a huge material cost disadvantage.
Do you really think these are being sold at a loss? NO. They're making a resonable profit - otherwise, they'd be out of business in a heartbeat.
Note the word "reasonable" in the above.
so you expect someone to sell you a quality header for little to no profit? you clearly understand that people make a profit, but you seem to fail to realize there is much more to the header than metal, what about R&D, overhead, payroll, rent, advertising, equipment etc...
make them yourself, or pay for someone's tools and experience to make them, it sucks but thats the way it is with everything we buy.
Good luck on finding your quality 1 7/8" for 300 $, that I have seen there is only uncoated decent headers out there in 1 3/4" for that price, or cheapy 1 3/4" ebay stuff around 200 but not in 1 7/8"
The TSP's are by far the cheapest in that size that I have seen and great quality, except the edelbrock, but those come in pieces at the comparable pricing to the TSP's.
Last edited by 00pooterSS; Jun 26, 2008 at 05:00 PM.
LOL
so you expect someone to sell you a quality header for little to no profit? you clearly understand that people make a profit, but you seem to fail to realize there is much more to the header than metal, what about R&D, overhead, payroll, rent, advertising, equipment etc...
make them yourself, or pay for someone's tools and experience to make them, it sucks but thats the way it is with everything we buy.
Good luck on finding your quality 1 7/8" for 300 $, that I have seen there is only uncoated decent headers out there in 1 3/4" for that price, or cheapy 1 3/4" ebay stuff around 200 but not in 1 7/8"
The TSP's are by far the cheapest in that size that I have seen and great quality, except the edelbrock, but those come in pieces at the comparable pricing to the TSP's.
so you expect someone to sell you a quality header for little to no profit? you clearly understand that people make a profit, but you seem to fail to realize there is much more to the header than metal, what about R&D, overhead, payroll, rent, advertising, equipment etc...
make them yourself, or pay for someone's tools and experience to make them, it sucks but thats the way it is with everything we buy.
Good luck on finding your quality 1 7/8" for 300 $, that I have seen there is only uncoated decent headers out there in 1 3/4" for that price, or cheapy 1 3/4" ebay stuff around 200 but not in 1 7/8"
The TSP's are by far the cheapest in that size that I have seen and great quality, except the edelbrock, but those come in pieces at the comparable pricing to the TSP's.
I agree. Thats great, you buy metal..Whoopeee. You dont make headers, you dont manufacture them. So again why would somebody cut their profits to please a few people? If you cant afford a quality header, or even a header that meets your requirements then guess what?............................................. .................................................. .............................dont buy a set.
http://www.texas-speed.com/shop/item...d=899&catid=45
Recently, on a 402 motor, a customer picked up 20+rwhp by switching from the Pacesetter 1 3/4" to our 1 7/8"
Let us know if we can help!
Recently, on a 402 motor, a customer picked up 20+rwhp by switching from the Pacesetter 1 3/4" to our 1 7/8"
Let us know if we can help!
TECH Resident
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 937
Likes: 0
From: South Alabama
You've got to be a die hard democrat with that "blood from a turnip" line of thinking, by chance do you work for Obama?? lol
PacerX, you need to get your head out of the clouds on this header issue. You're not just paying for the materials to build the header. As with any of other car product you're paying for the R&D to develop the product, the manufacturing and/or build of the product, etc etc. There's a LOT more in designing a true fit longtube header for any vehicle than just throwing metal together.
$300-400 for a complete stainless LT/Y setup would yield a company almost zero profit after all the overhead was paid, and thats why they don't exist. The best bang for the buck 1 7/8 you're going to get is a TSP header. If you think their prices are "high", check out what a set of Kooks or QTP's cost. Then you can start griping about pricing.
$300-400 for a complete stainless LT/Y setup would yield a company almost zero profit after all the overhead was paid, and thats why they don't exist. The best bang for the buck 1 7/8 you're going to get is a TSP header. If you think their prices are "high", check out what a set of Kooks or QTP's cost. Then you can start griping about pricing.
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From: Turnin' Wrenches Infractions: 005
How many headers out there are a direct copy of somebody else's design?
Basically, beyond 2 or 3, ALL OF THEM.
"Development" isn't throwing somebody else's design on a Faro arm and beeping in coordinates.
The "development" on many of the headers out there was throwing... say... oh... I don't know... Hooker's design on a Faro arm and beeping away.
It looks like Edelbrock and a few others actually developed a design. VERY FEW OTHERS...
Well, I'll betcha you're wrong... And there's proof too... Others are being sold far, far, less expensively, out of more expensive materials, and I GUARANTEE they are making a profit.
Pardon me...
But they DO exist.
I mentioned I buy stuff (lots of different stuff) for a living... I have very good contacts in the local prototype and production businesses in OEM automotive.
Whatever set of headers I get, I'll get quoted PRECISELY what it costs to make them by a third party.
If I'm full of ****, I'll come on here and admit it to the world.
If I'm right, you naysayers get to apologize publically here on this very board.
Deal?
PUH-LEEEEZE.
How many headers out there are a direct copy of somebody else's design?
Basically, beyond 2 or 3, ALL OF THEM.
"Development" isn't throwing somebody else's design on a Faro arm and beeping in coordinates.
See above regarding copies.
The "development" on many of the headers out there was throwing... say... oh... I don't know... Hooker's design on a Faro arm and beeping away.
It looks like Edelbrock and a few others actually developed a design. VERY FEW OTHERS...
Oh really...
Well, I'll betcha you're wrong... And there's proof too... Others are being sold far, far, less expensively, out of more expensive materials, and I GUARANTEE they are making a profit.
Pardon me...
But they DO exist.
I'll make everyone here a deal...
I mentioned I buy stuff (lots of different stuff) for a living... I have very good contacts in the local prototype and production businesses in OEM automotive.
Whatever set of headers I get, I'll get quoted PRECISELY what it costs to make them by a third party.
If I'm full of ****, I'll come on here and admit it to the world.
If I'm right, you naysayers get to apologize publically here on this very board.
Deal?
How many headers out there are a direct copy of somebody else's design?
Basically, beyond 2 or 3, ALL OF THEM.
"Development" isn't throwing somebody else's design on a Faro arm and beeping in coordinates.
See above regarding copies.
The "development" on many of the headers out there was throwing... say... oh... I don't know... Hooker's design on a Faro arm and beeping away.
It looks like Edelbrock and a few others actually developed a design. VERY FEW OTHERS...
Oh really...
Well, I'll betcha you're wrong... And there's proof too... Others are being sold far, far, less expensively, out of more expensive materials, and I GUARANTEE they are making a profit.
Pardon me...
But they DO exist.
I'll make everyone here a deal...
I mentioned I buy stuff (lots of different stuff) for a living... I have very good contacts in the local prototype and production businesses in OEM automotive.
Whatever set of headers I get, I'll get quoted PRECISELY what it costs to make them by a third party.
If I'm full of ****, I'll come on here and admit it to the world.
If I'm right, you naysayers get to apologize publically here on this very board.
Deal?
I'll make you a "deal"....... if you stop posting i'll stop laughing. deal?
I know when you come back with pricing you will be pricing just the material so when you get that pricing on how much it exactly costs to make the headers, remember to factor in, overhead, payroll, the expensive equipment used to build them, R&D ( which you pay for R&D of other products too not only the header ), rent, maintenance, advertising, marketing research, etc etc etc. again good luck with gathering all that.
edit ( this is for the red part ) if they are out there what are you doing here? just buy em, and let us know what you bought and how much it was.
Last edited by 00pooterSS; Jun 27, 2008 at 09:37 AM.
No offence, but if you're the expert on sourcing steel and fabricating...why not make your own headers??
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-external-engine/926270-promised-my-ebay-header-installation-experience.html
There's the thread that shows exactly why I WOULD NOT buy the Ebay headers. Cutting a 1/4" off the k-member for install is not OK, and any real vendor here would be hung/crucified for it. We get bashed when you have to loosen a motor mount, lol.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-external-engine/926270-promised-my-ebay-header-installation-experience.html
There's the thread that shows exactly why I WOULD NOT buy the Ebay headers. Cutting a 1/4" off the k-member for install is not OK, and any real vendor here would be hung/crucified for it. We get bashed when you have to loosen a motor mount, lol.
__________________
Largest Stocking Distributor of LS-x Engines / CHECK OUT OUR NEW WEBSITE!
COMP - FAST - PACESETTER - DIAMOND RACING - EAGLE SPECIALTY PRODUCTS - CALLIES - COMETIC GASKETS
RAM CLUTCHES - MOSER ENGINEERING - KOOK'S HEADERS - ARP - GM BOLTS AND GASKETS - MSD - NGK
POWERBOND - ASP - AND MORE!
Largest Stocking Distributor of LS-x Engines / CHECK OUT OUR NEW WEBSITE!
COMP - FAST - PACESETTER - DIAMOND RACING - EAGLE SPECIALTY PRODUCTS - CALLIES - COMETIC GASKETS
RAM CLUTCHES - MOSER ENGINEERING - KOOK'S HEADERS - ARP - GM BOLTS AND GASKETS - MSD - NGK
POWERBOND - ASP - AND MORE!
No offence, but if you're the expert on sourcing steel and fabricating...why not make your own headers??
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=926270
There's the thread that shows exactly why I WOULD NOT buy the Ebay headers. Cutting a 1/4" off the k-member for install is not OK, and any real vendor here would be hung/crucified for it. We get bashed when you have to loosen a motor mount, lol.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=926270
There's the thread that shows exactly why I WOULD NOT buy the Ebay headers. Cutting a 1/4" off the k-member for install is not OK, and any real vendor here would be hung/crucified for it. We get bashed when you have to loosen a motor mount, lol.
X1000
Hey matt, any plans for making 1-3/4" ?
I'll make you a "deal"....... if you stop posting i'll stop laughing. deal?
I know when you come back with pricing you will be pricing just the material so when you get that pricing on how much it exactly costs to make the headers, remember to factor in, overhead, payroll, the expensive equipment used to build them, R&D ( which you pay for R&D of other products too not only the header ), rent, maintenance, advertising, marketing research, etc etc etc. again good luck with gathering all that.
I know when you come back with pricing you will be pricing just the material so when you get that pricing on how much it exactly costs to make the headers, remember to factor in, overhead, payroll, the expensive equipment used to build them, R&D ( which you pay for R&D of other products too not only the header ), rent, maintenance, advertising, marketing research, etc etc etc. again good luck with gathering all that.
All up cost.
NOT just material.
Material + labor + fixed overhead + variable overhead + SG&A + Profit.]
If you understand the terms "fixed", "variable" and "SG&A", you'll understand what all up cost is.
But I bet you don't...
That's got something to it...
Maybe i will.
If I come up with a $300-$400 1 7/8" header with a Y pipe and hardware, out of 304 or 312 stainless that doesn't have the fitment issue, and demonstrates equivalent or better power to any other 1 7/8" header and Y-pipe setup, anyone interested in that?
Hey, like I said, I'll admit I was wrong publically here for God and everyone to see if it can't be done.
Tell ya what Matt, YOU willing to take the deal offered above and admit you were wrong if I pull it off?
Better yet...
YOU willing to sell them?
Last edited by PacerX; Jun 27, 2008 at 10:51 AM.
Hmmm...
That's got something to it...
Maybe i will.
If I come up with a $300-$400 1 7/8" header with a Y pipe and hardware, out of 304 or 312 stainless that doesn't have the fitment issue, and demonstrates equivalent or better power to any other 1 7/8" header and Y-pipe setup, anyone interested in that?
Hey, like I said, I'll admit I was wrong publically here for God and everyone to see if it can't be done.
Tell ya what Matt, YOU willing to take the deal offered above and admit you were wrong if I pull it off?
Better yet...
YOU willing to sell them?
That's got something to it...
Maybe i will.
If I come up with a $300-$400 1 7/8" header with a Y pipe and hardware, out of 304 or 312 stainless that doesn't have the fitment issue, and demonstrates equivalent or better power to any other 1 7/8" header and Y-pipe setup, anyone interested in that?
Hey, like I said, I'll admit I was wrong publically here for God and everyone to see if it can't be done.
Tell ya what Matt, YOU willing to take the deal offered above and admit you were wrong if I pull it off?
Better yet...
YOU willing to sell them?
Since Pacesetter has has a very affordable 1 3/4" ceramic coated header, we can't really justify spending the money on the tooling and all to make our own....we sell alot of the Pacesetter 1 3/4" stuff though at some of the best prices around
Make it happen and send us the info. You'd also be required to show that you can keep up with our sales volume demands and customer service demands if/when your product has issues. We're always looking for new and exciting products to add to our line-up!
Hmmm...
That's got something to it...
Maybe i will.
If I come up with a $300-$400 1 7/8" header with a Y pipe and hardware, out of 304 or 312 stainless that doesn't have the fitment issue, and demonstrates equivalent or better power to any other 1 7/8" header and Y-pipe setup, anyone interested in that?
Hey, like I said, I'll admit I was wrong publically here for God and everyone to see if it can't be done.
Tell ya what Matt, YOU willing to take the deal offered above and admit you were wrong if I pull it off?
Better yet...
YOU willing to sell them?
That's got something to it...
Maybe i will.
If I come up with a $300-$400 1 7/8" header with a Y pipe and hardware, out of 304 or 312 stainless that doesn't have the fitment issue, and demonstrates equivalent or better power to any other 1 7/8" header and Y-pipe setup, anyone interested in that?
Hey, like I said, I'll admit I was wrong publically here for God and everyone to see if it can't be done.
Tell ya what Matt, YOU willing to take the deal offered above and admit you were wrong if I pull it off?
Better yet...
YOU willing to sell them?
__________________
Largest Stocking Distributor of LS-x Engines / CHECK OUT OUR NEW WEBSITE!
COMP - FAST - PACESETTER - DIAMOND RACING - EAGLE SPECIALTY PRODUCTS - CALLIES - COMETIC GASKETS
RAM CLUTCHES - MOSER ENGINEERING - KOOK'S HEADERS - ARP - GM BOLTS AND GASKETS - MSD - NGK
POWERBOND - ASP - AND MORE!
Largest Stocking Distributor of LS-x Engines / CHECK OUT OUR NEW WEBSITE!
COMP - FAST - PACESETTER - DIAMOND RACING - EAGLE SPECIALTY PRODUCTS - CALLIES - COMETIC GASKETS
RAM CLUTCHES - MOSER ENGINEERING - KOOK'S HEADERS - ARP - GM BOLTS AND GASKETS - MSD - NGK
POWERBOND - ASP - AND MORE!