Stock Motor 1 3/4" Vs. 1 7/8 Engine Dyno Results!!
09-07-2008, 07:23 PM
#81
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No one is saying that your car is going to me immovable with 1 7/8" headers 
That is a pathetic "argument," and I put "argument" in quotes because it's actually an attempt at a thinly veiled insult.
Obviously, any headers will be an increase in power all over the powerband vs. stock manifolds. However, the vast majority of F-body's are not race cars. Almost none of them are. They're almost all daily drivers or weekend cars. The vast majority of them are also stock internals cars. Therefore, 99% of the car's life is not spent at WOT. The vast majority of the life of the motor will be spent well under 3,000 rpms, incidentally the chunk of the powerband the engine dyno cannot show.
How is it the same people on this site that at one point claim "every horsepower helps" all of a sudden do not care about the 5-10rwhp lost under 3,000 rpms due to larger primaries? How come all of a sudden, these smaller amounts of power don't matter? Whatever helps you sleep at night. I'll continue to modify my car appropriately to fit my driving style and so the mods match up properly. I care about under the curve power as much as above the curve power.
I should have known not to respond past the first page in this thread. It took a few pages, but the cheerleaders are finally starting to show up. Some people you just can't talk sense into.
That is a pathetic "argument," and I put "argument" in quotes because it's actually an attempt at a thinly veiled insult.Obviously, any headers will be an increase in power all over the powerband vs. stock manifolds. However, the vast majority of F-body's are not race cars. Almost none of them are. They're almost all daily drivers or weekend cars. The vast majority of them are also stock internals cars. Therefore, 99% of the car's life is not spent at WOT. The vast majority of the life of the motor will be spent well under 3,000 rpms, incidentally the chunk of the powerband the engine dyno cannot show.
How is it the same people on this site that at one point claim "every horsepower helps" all of a sudden do not care about the 5-10rwhp lost under 3,000 rpms due to larger primaries? How come all of a sudden, these smaller amounts of power don't matter?
Whatever helps you sleep at night. I'll continue to modify my car appropriately to fit my driving style and so the mods match up properly. I care about under the curve power as much as above the curve power.I should have known not to respond past the first page in this thread. It took a few pages, but the cheerleaders are finally starting to show up. Some people you just can't talk sense into.
09-08-2008, 12:30 AM
#83
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Just a question to throw out there. Why would it matter what your hp numbers are below 3k rpms ??? When your at WOT the shifts are never under 3500-4k rpm. Like said previously when at WOT you never see below 3k rpms. For example when my 98 z28 was stock i can brake stall it at 2k rpms and its a A4 and as soon as i let go of the brake it sees under 3k rpms for what .2 seconds ? from then on at WOT the shifts never see under 3k rpms so the TQ and HP numbers under 3k are meaningless. People dont go around racing under 3k rpms on the street or strip ... IMO i think TSP 1 7/8" headers are a great set of headers and for the nearly the same price as the pacesetters, with the info. giving on the increase of HP and TQ the TSPs are the way to go. As soon as i can get money TSP will be getting a order in from me for there 1 7/8" headers 
09-14-2008, 08:51 PM
#86
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True statement. This proves that TSPs 1 7/8s are better than Pacesetters.
True statement. Most of us would like to see direct comparos between the major header brands 1 3/4s and 1 7/8s.
True statement. Another exhaust thread poluted by choco.
But really. The only bit of usuable info is that TSPs headers are better than pacesetters. We cannot truefully say that a 1 7/8s will of any brand will out perform 1 3/4s. Which is something that was refered to in post #58 I believe.
True statement. Most of us would like to see direct comparos between the major header brands 1 3/4s and 1 7/8s.
True statement. Another exhaust thread poluted by choco.
But really. The only bit of usuable info is that TSPs headers are better than pacesetters. We cannot truefully say that a 1 7/8s will of any brand will out perform 1 3/4s. Which is something that was refered to in post #58 I believe.
09-14-2008, 09:51 PM
#87
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True statement. This proves that TSPs 1 7/8s are better than Pacesetters.
True statement. Most of us would like to see direct comparos between the major header brands 1 3/4s and 1 7/8s.
True statement. Another exhaust thread poluted by choco.
But really. The only bit of usuable info is that TSPs headers are better than pacesetters. We cannot truefully say that a 1 7/8s will of any brand will out perform 1 3/4s. Which is something that was refered to in post #58 I believe.
True statement. Most of us would like to see direct comparos between the major header brands 1 3/4s and 1 7/8s.
True statement. Another exhaust thread poluted by choco.
But really. The only bit of usuable info is that TSPs headers are better than pacesetters. We cannot truefully say that a 1 7/8s will of any brand will out perform 1 3/4s. Which is something that was refered to in post #58 I believe.
These are a amazing set of headers for the price of less then $500 regardless IMO, hence the reason why im buying TSP's headers because the affordiability for a nice set of headers that are 1 7/8"
09-14-2008, 10:34 PM
#88
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^^^ Agreed, i would like to see TSP's 1 7/8" headers go against Kooks or QTP 1 3/4 headers and a set of Eledbrock 1 3/4 stepped to 1 7/8 headers. If it would out perform all those and had dyno results to back it up i think the sales of the TSP's header would increase greatly and it would answer alot of peoples questions/arguements/ statements These are a amazing set of headers for the price of less then $500 regardless IMO, hence the reason why im buying TSP's headers because the affordiability for a nice set of headers that are 1 7/8"
These are a amazing set of headers for the price of less then $500 regardless IMO, hence the reason why im buying TSP's headers because the affordiability for a nice set of headers that are 1 7/8"
09-14-2008, 11:51 PM
#90
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This thread is about 1 3/4" headers vs TSP's 1 7/8" headers on a stock motor not about 1 7/8" in general even tho thats how it looks in the title. I highly doubt Texas speed cares about compairing kooks vs kooks products when they dont sell there products. If TSP's 1 7/8" headers outperform all 1 3/4" headers then kooks 1 7/8" SHOULD as well sense there twice the price of TSP's.
10-08-2008, 10:41 AM
#93
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Definitely a good comparison considering that almost all the F body guys i know have pacesetters lol Choco wants to sit there and jerk him self about QTP because he has QTP so it makes him feel better when he says they make 18RWHP and 30RWTQ more than pacesetter. So let me get this straight choco?? I have a 99 Z28 With MS3, LS6 intake, stock heads, and Pacesetter LTs. I made 410rwhp and 376rwtq so if i install a set of QTP 1 3/4 headers i will make around 428rwhp and 406rwtq???? Sounds like a load of **** to me but jesus if you can guarantee i will make that much more power i would be sold on them. But i know for a fact if i put those headers on with my current set up i will not gain that much power if i even gain anything. So i say 
and leave TSP alone IMO they are a great company and they have my business. I may even have to go with the 1 7/8 headers
and leave TSP alone IMO they are a great company and they have my business. I may even have to go with the 1 7/8 headers
10-08-2008, 11:51 AM
#95
Good info TSP. One thing I can guarintee, is bigger headers on a race setup help. My 1/8 and 1/4 mph is up over 5 mph from last year and the only things I did to add any power is a set ot 1 7/8 stepped to 2 inch headers from the old 1 3/4 I was running, and an electric water pump, and so far, the DA at the best day has been 1600 points higher then what it was last year when I ran my best.
Sure the car lost 150 lbs, but I'm not talking about a bolton car that sees a tenth for every 100 lbs or 10 hp, I'm way past that point of gains, it doesn't work that way with cars that are in the single digits.
Sure the car lost 150 lbs, but I'm not talking about a bolton car that sees a tenth for every 100 lbs or 10 hp, I'm way past that point of gains, it doesn't work that way with cars that are in the single digits.
10-08-2008, 11:58 AM
#96
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IMHO, I'm suprised Kooks or QTP themselves havent done a similar test with thier headers
I agree with alot of the others:
This is a great test for maybe making a general decision on what to go with, but testing two different kinds of headers really isnt what alot of the knowledgeable people on here want to see.
I agree with alot of the others: This is a great test for maybe making a general decision on what to go with, but testing two different kinds of headers really isnt what alot of the knowledgeable people on here want to see.
10-15-2008, 09:46 AM
#98
i have a few friends that didnt believe me about 1 7/8" being able to make power on stock cubes, let alone stock power, and i linked them to this thread and they are now believers! great review!
oh and btw TSP, i am looking for my first ls1 right now and once i find one at the right price, i will begin to pour my money into your pockets! i look forward to throwing $$ at your guys over the next few years, and that will definately begin with these headers and a BA Texas Speed t-shirt
oh and btw TSP, i am looking for my first ls1 right now and once i find one at the right price, i will begin to pour my money into your pockets! i look forward to throwing $$ at your guys over the next few years, and that will definately begin with these headers and a BA Texas Speed t-shirt
10-15-2008, 10:03 AM
#99
That's good to know, but that's not an apples-to-oranges comparison. The TSP 1 7/8" headers are a brand new design and of pretty high quality for coated headers. The Pacesetters are a design half a decade old, and they're one of the cheapest longtubes on the market and also the smallest. Just look at the difference between Pacesetters vs. Edelbrocks:
They are both 1 3/4" headers, and I can guaran-damn-tee you that the Edelbrock 1 3/4" headers will outperform the Pacesetter 1 3/4" headers just the same.
IMO, this comparison is meaningless because you're comparing a quality header to old, bottom-of-the-barrel junk. You need to compare the same design. If it were Kooks 1 3/4" headers vs. Kooks 1 7/8" headers, then I'd be content. if it were ARH 1 3/4" headers vs. ARH 1 7/8" headers, then I'd be content. That way, it's an apples to apples comparison.
Also, the fact that you can't show power below 3000 rpms is discouraging. That is the powerband for daily driving, and that's where the 1 3/4" headers shine. You're not going to see the benefits of the 1 3/4" headers because the dyno won't allow it.
I'm not trying to insult you or discourage you. I'm just pointing out facts. It's a bad comparison by not choosing the same brand and design, and even if it were, the dyno leaves out the very powerband that shines with the smaller primaries. I'm not going to sacrifice a 15rwtq loss @ 2200 rpms for a 3rwhp gain at 5800 rpm's. Sorry to be a buzzkill.
They are both 1 3/4" headers, and I can guaran-damn-tee you that the Edelbrock 1 3/4" headers will outperform the Pacesetter 1 3/4" headers just the same.
IMO, this comparison is meaningless because you're comparing a quality header to old, bottom-of-the-barrel junk. You need to compare the same design. If it were Kooks 1 3/4" headers vs. Kooks 1 7/8" headers, then I'd be content. if it were ARH 1 3/4" headers vs. ARH 1 7/8" headers, then I'd be content. That way, it's an apples to apples comparison.
Also, the fact that you can't show power below 3000 rpms is discouraging. That is the powerband for daily driving, and that's where the 1 3/4" headers shine. You're not going to see the benefits of the 1 3/4" headers because the dyno won't allow it.
I'm not trying to insult you or discourage you. I'm just pointing out facts. It's a bad comparison by not choosing the same brand and design, and even if it were, the dyno leaves out the very powerband that shines with the smaller primaries. I'm not going to sacrifice a 15rwtq loss @ 2200 rpms for a 3rwhp gain at 5800 rpm's. Sorry to be a buzzkill.
p.s. the edelbrock victor header is a 13/4 -17/8 stepped header with a 3.5 inch merge collector, it isnt your typical 1 3/4 " header
Last edited by Ryne @ CMS; 10-15-2008 at 11:55 AM.
10-15-2008, 03:58 PM
#100
Good right up Jason. When I saw this thread I thought hahaha, the 1 7/8s would be softer in the bottom end. Choco Taco, shut the **** up god damn it. Make one post then STFU please pull some info out that shows what you have done to make test. As far as collectors go I think both of these have standard collectors. I don't think there is much arguement there. The Edlebrocks as stated are 1 3/4 stepped to 1 7/8 with a 3 1/2 collector. Not the same as a 1 3/4 and 3. The Edlebrock I think would have more low end tq and with the 3 1/2 would have a lot more velocity at the collector. Rant over, this test just surprised me that the 1 7/8s was softer below say 4500 or so. Good test