OEM engineer: new lifters w/ any new cam is REQUIRED (!?)
#1
TECH Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Berkley, MI
Posts: 414
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
OEM engineer: new lifters w/ any new cam is REQUIRED (!?)
I am swapping my stock ls1 cam with a MTI C1 (222/222, .566 .566 112LSA)
Some very bright gentlemen @ the OEM i work at INSIST that i get new lifters to match the new cam.They say it is 101 and not to proceed if i do not plan on changing lifters.
Evidently the wear pattern on my old lifters will not match the new cam and it will wear the cam. Doing this requires removing the intake (i did not plan on doing that)
1. Do i have roller lifters ?(in which case they say i still SHOULD replace the lifters due to the existing wear pattern)
IS ANYONE DOING THIS ?
Some very bright gentlemen @ the OEM i work at INSIST that i get new lifters to match the new cam.They say it is 101 and not to proceed if i do not plan on changing lifters.
Evidently the wear pattern on my old lifters will not match the new cam and it will wear the cam. Doing this requires removing the intake (i did not plan on doing that)
1. Do i have roller lifters ?(in which case they say i still SHOULD replace the lifters due to the existing wear pattern)
IS ANYONE DOING THIS ?
#2
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (21)
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Cecil County Raceway!!!
Posts: 8,484
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: OEM engineer: new lifters w/ any new cam is REQUIRED (!?)
that statement you said is only true with FLAT TAPPET lifters. You do not need to replace lifters unless you damage one (collapse it). to change lifters requires pulling both heads as the lifter valley is under the head surface
#3
The Bull
Re: OEM engineer: new lifters w/ any new cam is REQUIRED (!?)
Mirek,
Most if not all of us who have done this with our motors have not changed the lifters. You will see a very mild wear characteristic if you were to look at them. But with the hydraulic roller design that is used stock it works just fine, even after a cam swap. I've done several and they all are still running really well.
Most if not all of us who have done this with our motors have not changed the lifters. You will see a very mild wear characteristic if you were to look at them. But with the hydraulic roller design that is used stock it works just fine, even after a cam swap. I've done several and they all are still running really well.
#4
TECH Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Berkley, MI
Posts: 414
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: OEM engineer: new lifters w/ any new cam is REQUIRED (!?)
Thanks for the heads up these guys are DEAD SET on HAVING to change the lifters and once again they are OEM engineers and have built and been inside many many engines....what type of lifter do ls1 engines come with ?
#5
Re: OEM engineer: new lifters w/ any new cam is REQUIRED (!?)
They are a roller design. The side that rides on the cam lobes have a wheel on a bearing (a very basic description) that rolls on the lobe. The other side has a cup that the pushrod sits in. Lower wear and friction that flat tappet variety.
#7
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Michigan
Posts: 1,153
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: OEM engineer: new lifters w/ any new cam is REQUIRED (!?)
Yeah, oldschool guys sometimes are not familiar with "roller" technology. Roller lifters dont really wear. The way a flat tappet cam is ground and the way flat tappet lifters are ground dictate the need to have a special break in. Also, replacing lifters in a Gen III motor requires that you remove the heads, not the intake. They're obviously not up to date
Trending Topics
#9
TECH Veteran
iTrader: (6)
Re: OEM engineer: new lifters w/ any new cam is REQUIRED (!?)
Please tell me that your "OEM Engineer friends" work for Ford or Chrylser. That, I could understand.
-Geoff
-Geoff
there is no need to change roller lifters UNLESS they are really old and/or you are going to put a valve spring that has too much pressure for the factory unit....
#10
TECH Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Berkley, MI
Posts: 414
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: OEM engineer: new lifters w/ any new cam is REQUIRED (!?)
Thanks fellas i feel 10X better about it.
IBTW I printed this thread and gave it to each of them. One came back and said that he did not know i had rollers & the other i have not heard back from yet.
AMEN to not having to change them i was kinda worried for a minute there !
IBTW I printed this thread and gave it to each of them. One came back and said that he did not know i had rollers & the other i have not heard back from yet.
AMEN to not having to change them i was kinda worried for a minute there !
#11
TECH Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Hartsdale, NY
Posts: 4,055
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: OEM engineer: new lifters w/ any new cam is REQUIRED (!?)
i changed my lifters with a H/C swap....it just made sence to me...
...nearly all that do a cam only swap leave the heads on ...this means you use the same lifters...the Gen 3 engine was designed to allow cam swaps without removing the head...previous engine designs generally require head removal to swap a cam...
...nearly all that do a cam only swap leave the heads on ...this means you use the same lifters...the Gen 3 engine was designed to allow cam swaps without removing the head...previous engine designs generally require head removal to swap a cam...
#12
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Michigan
Posts: 1,153
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: OEM engineer: new lifters w/ any new cam is REQUIRED (!?)
i changed my lifters with a H/C swap....it just made sence to me...
...nearly all that do a cam only swap leave the heads on ...this means you use the same lifters...the Gen 3 engine was designed to allow cam swaps without removing the head...previous engine designs generally require head removal to swap a cam...
...nearly all that do a cam only swap leave the heads on ...this means you use the same lifters...the Gen 3 engine was designed to allow cam swaps without removing the head...previous engine designs generally require head removal to swap a cam...
#13
TECH Fanatic
Re: OEM engineer: new lifters w/ any new cam is REQUIRED (!?)
"OEM Engineers"
I guess they work for that big Multi-National Corporation named "OEM Inc".
Or are these OEM Engineers working for one of the Big 3 auto manufacturers in Pro-E / CAD OEM production parts development?
Certainly, these so called "OEM Engineers" you speak of are not envolved in the "NASA Space Projects Research and Development Program" or maybe associated with the "Simulation of a Collisionless Time-of-Flight Mass Spectrometer Design for Upper Atmospheric Measurement of the Density & Velocity-Distributions of Neutral Particles"?
If so, they may have a very valid point... If not, I have a bad feeling you may be the victim of there bullshit.
I guess they work for that big Multi-National Corporation named "OEM Inc".
Or are these OEM Engineers working for one of the Big 3 auto manufacturers in Pro-E / CAD OEM production parts development?
Certainly, these so called "OEM Engineers" you speak of are not envolved in the "NASA Space Projects Research and Development Program" or maybe associated with the "Simulation of a Collisionless Time-of-Flight Mass Spectrometer Design for Upper Atmospheric Measurement of the Density & Velocity-Distributions of Neutral Particles"?
If so, they may have a very valid point... If not, I have a bad feeling you may be the victim of there bullshit.
#14
TECH Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Berkley, MI
Posts: 414
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: OEM engineer: new lifters w/ any new cam is REQUIRED (!?)
HeHe, easy there Star-Trek there is no such thing as "oem inc"...& yes the big three is VERY large & These guys really are pretty heavy hitters(obviously not the LS1 engineers)....they are just giving a heads up on the fundementals, and at the end of the day ya' should change your lifters despite the fact you do not HAVE to.If it were easier to do we would all be spending bucks on that too. Anyway ask me something about a Isuzu(gag me) transaxle an i'll be wrong BUT your average 16 year old tearing apart ls1 trans-ams in his parents driveway would probably have a more specific knowledge set then say the Isuzu production engineer on that(ls1)subject.
#15
TECH Fanatic
Re: OEM engineer: new lifters w/ any new cam is REQUIRED (!?)
Sorry about the bad humor..
However, unfortunatly, I'm not 16 myself
In fact, I am 55
Bottom line is: You really don't need to change out the lifters with a hyd roller cam. There is no wear pattern established like on a flat tappet cam.
Of course, if you feel better with it ... Feel free to purchase a set of those OEM lifters.
However, unfortunatly, I'm not 16 myself
In fact, I am 55
Bottom line is: You really don't need to change out the lifters with a hyd roller cam. There is no wear pattern established like on a flat tappet cam.
Of course, if you feel better with it ... Feel free to purchase a set of those OEM lifters.
#16
8 Second Club
iTrader: (16)
Re: OEM engineer: new lifters w/ any new cam is REQUIRED (!?)
If you wer doing a head swap on an ls1...then You might consider some new ones(engine Mileage dependent)...especially if you considered changing to a solid Roller Lifter vs a Hydraulic roller lifter.....but not at a cam swap....no need for most of our cars.......If you're doing heads...go for it at your own choice.
#17
TECH Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Berkley, MI
Posts: 414
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: OEM engineer: new lifters w/ any new cam is REQUIRED (!?)
HEHE no problem fellas... I deserved my ***** busted !
Thanks for giving me the strait poop -so to speak.
The dealer knows zero about my car....
The boys at work are obviously misinformed...
I've read where some vendors have steered folks wrong.....
God Bless the forum.
BTW RamAir346 should be over in like an hour for my cam swap...that dude is like rainman smart, i cant wait !
Thanks for giving me the strait poop -so to speak.
The dealer knows zero about my car....
The boys at work are obviously misinformed...
I've read where some vendors have steered folks wrong.....
God Bless the forum.
BTW RamAir346 should be over in like an hour for my cam swap...that dude is like rainman smart, i cant wait !
#18
TECH Fanatic
Re: OEM engineer: new lifters w/ any new cam is REQUIRED (!?)
Can you reveal the "OEM" these engineers call home? What exactly do they engineer?
No flame, but asking a radiologist about your ED problem rather than a urologist might get you different answers even though both are MDs. Engineers are also specialists.
No flame, but asking a radiologist about your ED problem rather than a urologist might get you different answers even though both are MDs. Engineers are also specialists.
#19
TECH Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Berkley, MI
Posts: 414
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: OEM engineer: new lifters w/ any new cam is REQUIRED (!?)
Exterior Componant engineers...but avid engine builders/off-roaders....DUDE i had that exact Oscar Wilde qoute in my last message and my puter crashed....then when i re-logged on and retyped my message i forgot to include it !
#20
TECH Fanatic
Re: OEM engineer: new lifters w/ any new cam is REQUIRED (!?)
Exterior stuff like OSRVM, bumper guards, wipers? Yeah, I did that at an OEM 35 years ago, but my heart was still in the engine department which was in the next office. Maybe things are arranged differently now, and EC engineers don't get into engine stuff.
Another quote I like: "With Age comes Wisdom. Sometimes Age shows up alone." --Anon.
'43 was a vintage year, IMO.
Another quote I like: "With Age comes Wisdom. Sometimes Age shows up alone." --Anon.
'43 was a vintage year, IMO.