2000PewterZ28

It's wasn't hostile nor an attack, that my opinion from reading the board all day long. You 2 bash every head that doesn't cost a ton or come from Dart.

Chrome355z

iTrader: (1)

Prove them wrong rather then take shots. But I don't know if you will be able too.

Take a look at these comparisons:

PRC 2.5 5.3L Heads
MS3
FAST Intake/NW Throttle Body
447rwhp, 390ft-lbs.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamomet...0-results.html

Stock LS1 Heads
Custom Cam (small compared to MS3)
LS6 Intake
421rwhp, 389ft-lbs
https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamomet...o-results.html


ETP215 Heads
FTI Streetsweeper Cam (236/240 111 - smaller then MS3)
FAST Intake/TB
511rwhp, 455ft-lbs
https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamomet...1rwhp-fti.html


All cars were manual cars. No torque difference between the Cam-Only and the PRC5.3 w/ MS3. The ETP heads with a smaller cam BLOW AWAY the PRC heads.

Now people are probably going to come in here and be like no **** sherlock. But the 5.3 heads are touted to be as good of heads as the big boys and flow charts are shown to push this idea. But flow charts are only part of what makes a head perform.

I think these guys would rather see you run cam only and have damn near the same performance (with the right cam of course - not a donkey dick); and save your money for some top end heads and suspension mods.

They are not trying to be "dicks", but unfortunately when people listen to all the spin and never keep an open mind; any information outside of the norm is considered trolling or whatnot.

Jesus, I know everybody wants to think that with $1,400 heads they can perform just as well as $2,400 heads. Hell I WISH that as well. But the fact is I haven't seen it yet...

The PRC heads are not "junk" and they are at a VERY good price for people that can't afford more expensive heads. But you pick a cam designed around the head/intake/exhaust not the other way around. The PRC heads IMO would perform much better with a smaller 228/232 type of cam instead of the MS3 that everybody wants to throw out there.

My 2c.

KMS.1320

iTrader: (1)

When running bigger lazier ports like the PRC, you should tighten the LSA on your cam choice, at least according to Mike Jones of Jones Cam Designs. Maybe TSP would be better offering cams with these heads on a 110 LSA. or even a 108? The way Mike asked it:

When your port doesn't flow enough air, where do you see the biggest loss in power?
What normally happens to the power curve when you spread out the Lobe centers?

When your port is too big, where do you see it hurt the power?
What normally happens to the power curve when you tighten the Lobe centers?

We change the lobe centers to band-aid the port's problems.

ZMONSTER!

iTrader: (9)

Well Im pretty happy with my setup-but instead of AFR's I got a 9 inch and some PRC heads.

Straight up budget build.

MeangreenHD

iTrader: (6)

very good info! that etp setup is gnarly but im sure i would have to sell a motorcycle to buy it lol. cam only would be fine as long as i could drive a similar setup first. my car is 100% daily driven, i do not want to have to work to drive my car anywhere, but i would still like to have gto power numbers under the hood.

willyfastz

Your dead right, the advice I gave was to run a $500 set of ebay 243 castings and just lap the valves in. Run those with the right cam and he'll meet his goals and save $700 while doing it. I also said I've only seen the PRC 5.3's with a MS cam under them so I don't know first hand what they would do with a properly spec'ed cam. I will say the T4P 243 heads only flow around 317cfm's but will out perform a lot of heads with higher flow #'s. But they don't cost $1200 eighter.

And your right 2000pewter I'm not a TSP nut swinger. They have cheap prices that's about all I can say.

cws T/A

iTrader: (3)

Check out this fella's results with TSP H/C setup ..


https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamomet...tml?highlight=

https://ls1tech.com/forums/10-second...tml?highlight=

Chrome355z

iTrader: (1)

Nice "peak hp" number, but 260ft-lbs of torque at 3,000? That torque curve looks like Mt Everest. Way too much cam for those heads.

No thank you.

You can get 10.9x in a Cam Only car at 420ish rwhp and a NICE torque curve. (230 ish size)

cws T/A

iTrader: (3)

Scalling is off , 300rwtq @ 3000rpm .



https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamomet...-428-rwtq.html

Mazzenger

iTrader: (5)

I have seen a PRC stg 1 ls6 heads and a 236/242 in an auto make 430's.
Personally I would call TSP and get a set of their well priced stock castings.
Other wise AFR, or Trickflow seem to be doing well as usual.

99 Black Bird T/A

iTrader: (4)

Meangreen we all like peak numbers because that's part of the dyno fun. I'd suggest not worrying about the peak and looking for the best set up that gives you the most area under the curve because the will give the most overall fun with the car unless it's a drag only car.

Patriot has been around for a long time in this business. They seem to have a good reputation. I would look for quailty in a set of cylinder heads and pay a little extra for that quailty. Often we get what we pay for and it's worth paying a little extra for better parts & correctly set up springs etc. I've see a lot of car folks get burned in the long run by cheaping out of parts now to save a buck.

If your goal is 430rwhp and your considering their heads, I think you should call Patriot and ask for their recommendation for your cam. Keep a some extra money in your budget for tuning etc to get the most out of your set up and good luck with it.

BTW we all have our personal favorites when it comes to cylinder heads. So do your research and filter the opinions out before you buy.

Chrome355z

iTrader: (1)

That is better, I didn't catch that. Thanks.

Also in this example they are using the G5x3 which IMO which looks to be a better match for these heads.

But regardless the smaller cam with the ETP heads put out 50ft-lb more at 3,000 and 50ft-lb more at 4,500. HP peak is 25rwhp at 200 less RPM.

I guess all i'm saying is that for spending 60% of the top end heads, I "personally" would just save up for them and the better performance. Other people will be happy saving the $$$ and content with the numbers it will put out.

But short of the shortblock you should ALWAYS buy the best cylinder heads that you can afford. Then match a cam to your cylinder heads.

cws T/A

iTrader: (3)

Dyno wise yes better performance , haven't seen any track results though from that car .

MT Everest trapped 130mph .

MeangreenHD

iTrader: (6)

ya im sure i could just drop a t rex in my motor and make all kinds of power, but all kinds of power between 5-7 grand. thats not my idea of street friendly power. im gonna look into getting a set of 5.3's ported for now and get a cam spec'd by someone. i have a tuner so thats taken care of. that ms3 sure is looking better and better

willyfastz

Well if your looking for something with good low end torque the MS3 isn't the answer.