Every brand of spring seems to be having some failures.I am working to have a spring developed that I think will solve the problems.I am going to give the Crane Duals a shot.With the way cams are becoming more and more radical,the springs are going to continue to get beat up.

 

my pp 5.3's are going on tomorrow (they have 978's)

hope they hold up ok

 

Guys, Terry is absolutely correct. Breaking springs is nothing new, just somewhat new to the LS1. With all of the huge cams and higher revving engines lately, it will happen. Spring breakage started when the big cams became available. How many stock springs have broken with a Z06 cam or a mild cam? None that I have ever heard of. I look at it this way, you gotta pay to play. Yes, its a pain in the *** every time it happens and hopefully you have double springs that will at least minimize the chance of bending a valve. Just my .02

 

I have Comp 918 on a TR 224, and i have dogged my car since the day i have put them in.i agree with bergerman when he says, all these new big cams are coming out, and now more people are starting to see more failures. ask some old timers sometime about putting big cams in the old 396's 302's and such. springs have been breaking for years,just most of the people that are putting these cams in LS1's are young adults and havent been exposed to the internal engine work. face it these LS1 are only capable of pumping out, but so much power. 10-20 more peak horsepower up top gain from some of these radical grinds just isnt worth the hassle. if you want on top, fork out some change for a 427 or some other big cube motor, where your horsepower doesn't rely on just the top end.

 

Indeed, springs break. I don't think it is proper to jump all over company when a spring breaks. **** happens. I do think that the company would want to address a problem like spring failure under 3000 miles. If nothing else the best way to keep the customer's business is to give them a new set to prove the virtue of the product. If not I would sure as **** rty a different spring for the hell of it.

 

for any of you interested in a new spring design, check this thread. they are a single spring with a damper inside . in the event of a spring breakage, your valve should not drop. i use these springs in my 236/238 600+ lift cam with no problems at all and i dont dog my racecar. i have over 1000 hard driven miles on mine so far. they are being retailed at 199.95 for the springs, titanium retainers and locks. and with an unlimited one year warranty, you cant go wrong. call combination motorsports at 702-798-8504 and they will answer all your questions

 

Was it the new crane double for LS1 ?

 

I have a single spring with a damper.It has 130 lb on the seat,379 lb open rated to .610 lift.I do not believe the damper will hold up a valve very long if the outside spring was broken.I am also going to use the Crane Dual (true dual).I am developing a new dual spring.

 

I wonder if the Comp 26905 could be used since it is the "big brother" to the 918. Since it is a bigger diameter it would require a custom locator...

Part # 26918
Seat Lbs. 130 @ 1.8"
Open Lbs. 318 @ 1.2"
Rate (Ave) 313 lbs./in.
Coil Bind 1.085"
O.D. 1.290/1.060"
I.D. 0.885/0.656"

Part # 26095
Seat Lbs. 180 @ 1.9"
Open Lbs. 4308 @ 1.2"
Rate (Ave) 357 lbs./in.
Coil Bind 1.170"
O.D. 1.600/1.185"
I.D. 1.145/1.030"

 

How do the 977's compare?

 

Joe said that he really put the boots to those springs and they were very high mileage. I personally put 25K miles on a set of 295Ds and they still test good. You have to put things in perspective here. These Comp 978s had 1225 miles on them when the one broke!

 

If you guys are breaking springs it's means you are using them hard or wrong.

I wonder why the 978's are the spring of choice, they are a high rate spring @ 403 lbs but when you install them at 1.850 don't have any more seated pressure than the 987's or 918's and that's their designed installed height. If you put them in at 1.800" (like the 987's and 918's) and get them up to 147lbs at the seat (which would be why you go to them) then you are going to have problems with any cam that has more than .550 lift. Which is what it looks like all of you are running here. The 978's run into coil bind @ 1.195, and you need about .050 of room in there to play it safe with them. These springs don't really have any range of installed heights, it's 1.850" or nothing.

That's the only thing I can think of here. A few things break parts, one of them being abuse another being bad parts. They did have a bad batch of 918's true, but I wouldn't be the guy on the net to bash them everytime I get a chance. One time some guy is going to get sued for saying something (don't ya just love america) and he probably will not have the $ for lawyers that they do.

Bergerman and VT 01 are right, the big lift cams really are not worth all the B.S. If you don't like parts on the edge and the $ it takes to play there, don't get the power there. The big duration cams make this a problem but there are some creative solutions to this also.

Bret

 

On the PP S2 5.3L heads the installed height of the comp 978's is 1.850 so they are good to about .600 lift
-Steve

 

Accually I was installing the spring at 1.86 - 1.87.

 

Companies like Comp, Isky, Crane, etc. are distributors, not manufacturers of valve springs. Springs, especially valve springs, which might be the most highly stressed springs in daily usage, are produced by spring manufacturers, the names of which are unfamiliar to most of us.

My point is that a given size and rate valvespring can be economically made in quantity by only a very few companies. There is a very good chance that the springs you buy from almost any company are made by the same couple of manufacturers, and in some cases are the exact same springs.

Quality control if springs starts with the wire manufacturer, or even before that, the mill that made the original steel. IMO, spring manufacturers are at the mercy of the few steel mills in the world (not necessarily in the USA) which produce the very specific alloys used in valve springs.

If every mm of wire were inspected (x-ray, magnaflux, etc.) for minute defects, about the only people who could afford the springs would be F1 engine manufacturers...oops, they don't use metal springs; they use pneumatic springs.

I would suggest that if some of the wire is so thoroughly inspected prior to and after spring manufacture, that wire goes into things like Winston Cup, Pro Stock, etc. valve springs where money isn't a problem.

Cam companies can and will sell you springs like this, but they are probably only available in the sizes/rates used on those special engines, so they would be inappropriate for our "normal" street/strip engines. Of course, you could always use some Pro Stock valve springs as coil-over suspension springs in your Honda. Maybe that's why so many of the heavily lowered ones ride like they do...or maybe it's just the F1 look of zero suspension movement.

My $.02

 

I 100% agree

 

hrmmm, didn't know that.

How does that effect the spring?
-Steve

 

It effects a small amount of pressure.@ 1.85 the spring is 126 lbs.@ 1.87 it is 120 lbs.It also gives a security for coil bild.

 

Yeah as Terry said it does give it some coil bind security.

120lbs is a little light on spring pressure for something like the XE-R cams IMHO.

I would swap over to the 977's for the big cams and a 987 for the smaller cams. I've never had a problem with 977's on any motor. All running around .600 lift.

As OldSStroker said, these guys all get their springs from the same place so to badmouth just one company here when everyone company has a spring break is short sighted. The 918's are only a Comp spring, but the new blue stripe ones are a awesome spring.

Bret

 

With all the spring failures going on...I think that I am going to go with a set of springs from the inside of a Bic ball point pen. I have been using them since I was in the 2nd grade and never once had a failure. They hold up under heavy clicking...I sometimes clicked mine maybe 50 times in one day, and no problems!!!

There are a lot of good sponsors on this board...but I recommend Eckerds...you can pick up a 50 pack of pens for $7.99. Disassembly of the pens is easy...let me know if you need help getting the springs out!!