Replaced timing chain and still LOTS of SLACK.....
Replaced timing chain and still LOTS of SLACK..... I am doing a heads cam swap and i replaced just the timing chain (no sprokets). Its a cloyes PN 9-4194.. It has just as much slack as the 60k mile stock chain...Any ideas?? TIA
Phil
Phil
Launching!
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 272
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From: Cincinnati, Ohio
Re: Replaced timing chain and still LOTS of SLACK..... Not to mention the fact that the Cloyes part you just described is the identical Reynolds chain that you would get at the GM parts counter. Long story short, I hope you didn't pay more than $40. Anyway, the slack is normal, and it exists in all these engines using a stock timing set... mine included.
Re: Replaced timing chain and still LOTS of SLACK..... Thanks for the replies..And no i only paid $30 for the chain.. I guess i am used to the old school BBC SBC stuff..
Phil
Phil
Re: Replaced timing chain and still LOTS of SLACK.....
He is correct... if a chain is too tight it will suffer premature failure from the excess friction.
Stock chain = sucks
A number of people over the years have said "well as long as its within GM specs"
......to me that shows either lack of knowledge ("GM says it would work....durrrr...." 
.....remember, in the mid 90's GM also said that detonation was the "sound of economy....its saving your money on fuel" 
) or they really don't have any interest in getting the maximum performance out of their engine. The stock chain and sprockets result in A LOT of slack (after 25K miles, there was so much slack in the stock chain that I could MOVE the cam
). For this reason, I upgraded to the double roller version. Trending Topics
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TECH Fanatic
Joined: Jun 2003
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From: Further South than Hell
Re: Replaced timing chain and still LOTS of SLACK..... Stock chain = suck
Lingenfelter twin turbo = stock chain
CR5 Le Mans = stock chain.
Stock chain is fine and has no more failures than any other after market.
Too tight as double rollers are are starting to show premature front cam bearing wear from multiple users all over.
My 2 Bits
Re: Replaced timing chain and still LOTS of SLACK..... im gonna do a rebuild, and i was wondering about the chain
is just replacing the chain with the cloyes chain good enough? Im guessing the farthest i will get with this motor is around 450rwhp, with a H/C 347
and is the Damper ScottTurveys talking about allready used, from the factory on our LS1's, or is it an additional item that would help?
is just replacing the chain with the cloyes chain good enough? Im guessing the farthest i will get with this motor is around 450rwhp, with a H/C 347
and is the Damper ScottTurveys talking about allready used, from the factory on our LS1's, or is it an additional item that would help?
Launching!
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 272
Likes: 0
From: Cincinnati, Ohio
Re: Replaced timing chain and still LOTS of SLACK..... Stock chains are fine... As correctly stated above from different members, Lingentfelter puts a stock chain on everything that goes out the door, and the chain has slack at 0 miles. It's not an issue. I tried making the poing before, but no one cares to hear it. This isn't a mechanically timed engine, it's electronicallly timed. There is a cam position sensor and a crank position sensor reporting their TRUE orientation. That being the case, a little slack in the chain nets no real effect.
Launching!
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 272
Likes: 0
From: Cincinnati, Ohio
Re: Replaced timing chain and still LOTS of SLACK.....
im gonna do a rebuild, and i was wondering about the chain
is just replacing the chain with the cloyes chain good enough? Im guessing the farthest i will get with this motor is around 450rwhp, with a H/C 347
and is the Damper ScottTurveys talking about allready used, from the factory on our LS1's, or is it an additional item that would help?
is just replacing the chain with the cloyes chain good enough? Im guessing the farthest i will get with this motor is around 450rwhp, with a H/C 347
and is the Damper ScottTurveys talking about allready used, from the factory on our LS1's, or is it an additional item that would help?
Re: Replaced timing chain and still LOTS of SLACK.....
This isn't a mechanically timed engine, it's electronically timed. There is a cam position sensor and a crank position sensor reporting their TRUE orientation. That being the case, a little slack in the chain nets no real effect.
BUT....
The valve events are still mechanically timed. Slack in the chain WILL cause the cam to retard a little. How much performance is lost will depend on how bad the chain is (or how the cam/engine combination is). It is possible that the motor could use a little retarding in the cam timing and as such the car would actually pick up a little hp (thus people say "look....it didn’t hurt...I made hp with the stock chain").
Aftermarket engine builders use the stock chain as a "base" piece (they have to give you one so they give you the cheap one). The heavy-duty singles and duels are an upgrade. Sure the stock chain will "work" (people get 100+K miles out of them) but I can’t see using anything less than top quality parts in a performance oriented motor (especially when it does not cost a whole lot more).
Launching!
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 272
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From: Cincinnati, Ohio
Re: Replaced timing chain and still LOTS of SLACK..... I'm gettting out of this thread before I get sucked in to another 6 pager on this topic, but first, I have a couple ideas to throw out there.... again...
-Electronic fuel and ignition timing: we can agree on that, there's no need to get into it.
-Mechanical valve timing: you betcha.. Now, everyone (besides me) raise your hand if you've degreed a cam in a new shortblock back-to-back with the stock timing set and then with a rollmaster double (or equivalent aftermarket chain). Once you document for yourself the timing of the valve events for each timing set, and you have the numbers in front of you, if you still want to bicker about it, come back. I think you'll be surprised.
Also, what worries you more, 1 degree of retard, or milling the crap out of your cam bearings until you finally shatter your cam into about 5 pieces?
Good luck with the thread... I've been round and round with this too many times to get involved again with having to shoot someone.
-Electronic fuel and ignition timing: we can agree on that, there's no need to get into it.
-Mechanical valve timing: you betcha.. Now, everyone (besides me) raise your hand if you've degreed a cam in a new shortblock back-to-back with the stock timing set and then with a rollmaster double (or equivalent aftermarket chain). Once you document for yourself the timing of the valve events for each timing set, and you have the numbers in front of you, if you still want to bicker about it, come back. I think you'll be surprised.
Also, what worries you more, 1 degree of retard, or milling the crap out of your cam bearings until you finally shatter your cam into about 5 pieces?
Good luck with the thread... I've been round and round with this too many times to get involved again with having to shoot someone.
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 9,246
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From: Troy, AL
Re: Replaced timing chain and still LOTS of SLACK..... Might the cam grinders use a stock chain in their calculations?...not that a smidgin' of a degree is really going to matter one way or another. If that's the case then taking the slack out of the chain would change the valve timing events to being advanced ever so slightly from where the cam manufacturer intended.
I like the stock chain. It carried me to 9s with no problems. It seems to me that there are more problems reported with the aftermarket chains despite the fact that there are so few of them out there comparatively.
I like the stock chain. It carried me to 9s with no problems. It seems to me that there are more problems reported with the aftermarket chains despite the fact that there are so few of them out there comparatively.
Re: Replaced timing chain and still LOTS of SLACK..... Damn guys...Didnt mean to open a can of worms... I just thought that there was too much slack there.. Thanks for all of the input..
Phil
Phil
