Would you rather have torque or horsepower?
03-11-2009, 11:57 AM
#61
Again, torque is a rotational measurement, and horsepower by definition, not equation, is a measurement of work, i.e. power over a given amount of time. In order to get a good amount of horsepower you need as much torque over as long of a time as possible. There is no real argument here. I agree that torque is critical, and for most street cars is what makes them enjoyable to drive, but a short torque band is not favorable because you need lots of gears to make up for that lack of extended torque band.
Obviously, as time progresses, and technology adnvaces, we are finding more and more ways to make more power. The drawback to diesels for a while was the inability to spin high rpms and keep the motor together. How many diesel engines do you know of that can spin to 7000rpm?
Obviously, as time progresses, and technology adnvaces, we are finding more and more ways to make more power. The drawback to diesels for a while was the inability to spin high rpms and keep the motor together. How many diesel engines do you know of that can spin to 7000rpm?
03-11-2009, 12:07 PM
#63
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You said it best allngn c5.
Nice 402 by the way.
As I stated previously, TQ is what is measured on a dyno. HP is calculated. By virtue of the physics, the slower the loss of TQ above 5252 RPM's, the greater will be your max HP value.
Where all the discussion usually gets confusing and off track, is when you add in gearing, weight, etc. If every vehicle has the same gearing & weight, and aerodynamic drag the above statement will always be true.
In the world of LS1's ..in a pure 1/4 mile drag race, the amount and rate of change of of TQ is what gets you from a start to your next shifting rpm/speed. After 1st gear, it is where your RPM's drop to that determines your power curve. In a M6 that is ~4400rpm's. The amount of TQ & its rate of change from that shift point (4400rpm) to redline will determine your rate of acceleration.
I.E., TQ gets you moving, and HP (TQ above 5252 rpm's) will allow you to cover a greater distance over a specified period of time.
As many have said, build your car with a nice sweet TQ curve that still makes ample power in the higher rpms. With proper gearing you have it all.
..WeathermanShawn..
Nice 402 by the way.
As I stated previously, TQ is what is measured on a dyno. HP is calculated. By virtue of the physics, the slower the loss of TQ above 5252 RPM's, the greater will be your max HP value.
Where all the discussion usually gets confusing and off track, is when you add in gearing, weight, etc. If every vehicle has the same gearing & weight, and aerodynamic drag the above statement will always be true.
In the world of LS1's ..in a pure 1/4 mile drag race, the amount and rate of change of of TQ is what gets you from a start to your next shifting rpm/speed. After 1st gear, it is where your RPM's drop to that determines your power curve. In a M6 that is ~4400rpm's. The amount of TQ & its rate of change from that shift point (4400rpm) to redline will determine your rate of acceleration.
I.E., TQ gets you moving, and HP (TQ above 5252 rpm's) will allow you to cover a greater distance over a specified period of time.
As many have said, build your car with a nice sweet TQ curve that still makes ample power in the higher rpms. With proper gearing you have it all.
..WeathermanShawn..
03-11-2009, 11:41 PM
#69
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One of the Formula 1,
Senior Engineers during an interview, mentioned that the ability to maintain torque above 90lb-ft per litre throughout the rpm range was one of their finest achievements.
This was during the time they were at 3-litre V10 configuration.
3 x 90 = 270. 270 x 17,000 / 5252 = 874hp
(the figure of 277lb-ft for the 3-litre V10's was mentioned, IIRC)
Senior Engineers during an interview, mentioned that the ability to maintain torque above 90lb-ft per litre throughout the rpm range was one of their finest achievements.
This was during the time they were at 3-litre V10 configuration.
3 x 90 = 270. 270 x 17,000 / 5252 = 874hp
(the figure of 277lb-ft for the 3-litre V10's was mentioned, IIRC)
03-12-2009, 03:53 PM
#70
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this thread reminds me of the argument about a plane taking off on a treadmill....
torque is worthless without RPM. You can have 500,000 ft lbs of torque, but without rpm (which is important in making power) you are not going to move.
so the question is how do you want to make the power... by increasing the torque or the RPM... if your RPMs are limited, then make more torque... that is why low displacement engines make high horsepower numbers with such low torque numbers... lots of rpms... and the opposite can be said for us.
just my 2 cents.... enjoy
-John
torque is worthless without RPM. You can have 500,000 ft lbs of torque, but without rpm (which is important in making power) you are not going to move.
so the question is how do you want to make the power... by increasing the torque or the RPM... if your RPMs are limited, then make more torque... that is why low displacement engines make high horsepower numbers with such low torque numbers... lots of rpms... and the opposite can be said for us.
just my 2 cents.... enjoy
-John
03-12-2009, 09:44 PM
#73
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It's funny to see people arguing about hp and torque as if they're battling each other lol. . . .
If someone said "I want as much HP as I can get at 5000rpm!"
another dude responds, "Well I want as much TORQUE as I can get at 5000rpm!!!"
Which of them is on the true path to building the fastest engine (at 5000rpm)???
What if I the two dudes were to make the same remarks for, say, 3000rpm or 7000rpm?
If someone said "I want as much HP as I can get at 5000rpm!"
another dude responds, "Well I want as much TORQUE as I can get at 5000rpm!!!"
Which of them is on the true path to building the fastest engine (at 5000rpm)???
What if I the two dudes were to make the same remarks for, say, 3000rpm or 7000rpm?
Last edited by drz; 03-12-2009 at 09:53 PM.
03-13-2009, 06:24 AM
#74
This is really a debate of what rpm do you want your torque peak at. Do you want your torque to peak at 2000rpm or 5000rpm? At 2000rpm and it'll throw you in the seat evertime you stab the throttle while cruising. At 5000rpm, with the right gearing, it'll click off some impressive numbers.
03-13-2009, 08:53 PM
#79
: Just kinda tickled me.
Give us the scoop Kevin...... It's been a while since I read those threads.
EDIT: Just reread your thread and you did give us the scoop.....my bad.... Thanks.
Last edited by SOMbitch; 03-14-2009 at 08:24 AM.
