PREDATOR-Z

You are still not getting the picture.

I'll give you an exemple of .050 cam specs, tell me what you deduct from it just looking at it. I'm not yanking your chain, I'm just trying to let you see more than what you think you see.

224/228 .610/.585 110+1 LSA

Tell me how this cam will react in a standard LS1 (01/02) with headers/Y/Catback and let us make it easy M6.

WS6TransAm01

iTrader: (13)

I have to disagree, if they took the time to spec out a lobe profile that works, why should they share it with the world? Or at least make it that much easier for someone to copy. I am all for Tick holding those spec's to themselves.

Torque is fun I agree, but I dont think its a deal breaker on this cam. This cam is clearly made to run a higher RPM to achiev good results, but that does not mean that the car will be a turd on the street. My CARTEK 4X cam is similarly sized, and I never have problems driving on the street.

CARTEK 4X FTMFW!

PREDATOR-Z

Part of marketing that is all. More experienced enthusiasts skip on that.

We have beaten this subject countless times before. Yes it can be driven on the street. No it is not a "Street" cam.
Try running this cam with stock gears, clutch etc.. It will then be a turd.
This size cam NEEDS supporting mods, that is my WHOLE point, nothing else, nothing more. Without supporting mods it is not a good choice.

Antivnm says "it had plenty down low" then admits running 4.56:1 gear ratio, makes you wonder why he felt like he had "plenty". The graph TFS/Polluter SHOWS it has little trq in mid>low rpms. It is a 4500 rpm + cam
I am not inventing this, the proof is in the pudding.

The whole point is for beginer enthusiast to "UNDERSTAND" what he/she is getting into wanting a cam that large. If that person is ready to get all the supporting mods to run any cam that size, then by all means enjoy.
That goes for ALL cams that size not anything particular to the Polluter or Tick.

Purpose of a forum like this one is to acquire knowledge (from a member's point of view), not just to paruse an internet performance part supermarket.

SmokedOutZ28

iTrader: (35)

This is a very good thread, Wish this info was out there a year ago when I made my cam selection!

WS6TransAm01

iTrader: (13)

Marketing, Im not sure of, but I am all for shops holding their cam specs close to the vest.

I agree, a cam like that needs supporting mods, a car with stock gearing will feel like *** with it.

I am sure that part of the reason why I find my set-up so streetable is because I have 4.56 gears and 28" DR's on the car all the time on the street.

But I am also of the belief that going into the motor, such as a cam swap or heads should be the last mod, not the first. So, with that, the person buying a cam such as the Poluter or any other one should already have 4.10 gears or more in an M6 or a stall in a auto car. Bigger intake such as a Fast 90/92. No one should buy a cam and then have to say "ah crap, I need basic bolt-ons" you should have them before buying a cam.

USArmyZ28

iTrader: (3)

I think everyone with big cams should write a review of what its actually like to drive a big cam on the street. Then make the topic a sticky so people have knowledge of what its actually like to run a big cam, how the car reacts with normal day ot day driving. Im definately going to write a review or atleast an over lay of what its lke to drive a Trex on the street.

108dragon

iTrader: (5)

The 224/228 favors the exhaust by 4 degrees, but that is pretty typical with the 224-230 LS1 cams. The .610 lift on the intake side surprises me. At .050, the .610 would indicate a fast lobe ramping. I would hope that the exhaust would catch up quickly as exhaust valves are always smaller and typically flow less than intake. Exhaust temps tend to make up for that in velocity somewhat though. It looks like this cam was designed to be dependant on the scavenging effect of a good header/exhaust system (without them, this cam may be a dog). Or it was designed to boost intake volume with extra lift..perhaps both. 110 lsa +1 intalled would tell me that it will have a perfomance idle in comparison to to the 117.5 lsa of the LS6 cam. Might have to set the idle a bit higher than stock as throttle response off idle might not be as crisp as with a stocker. The +1 would advance all timing events by 1 degree, if I'm not mistaken. If that is the case, then it would shift the entire powerband down just a hair. From here, I would peg it as a mild performance cam with a broad torque curve -that I would have to change out valvesprings to take advantage of. Looks like it would produce its best power between 2k-6k and be a valve float and spring bind nightmare without supporting head mods. The insinuated aggressive ramp profile and lift values are what would make me preclude it for use as a DD. Looks like something I could use with boost except for the lsa.. right on the ragged edge. I'm stepping out on a limb saying all this, but that would be my guess based on only the information I've been given. I feel like I just sprung a trap and am hesitating hitting the "submit reply" button. lol
You are right that this doesn't show the whole picture as what happens further in the timing event may change how this looks all together. But as I said, if this is all that is presented, then it is all that we have to base a decision on.. isn't it?

108dragon

iTrader: (5)

Again, anyone who would want to copy it (i.e. could profit from doing so) would simply purchase one and would have the equipment to copy it. There are guys on ebay selling copied grinds. But they too simply buy what they want to copy and obviously have the equipment and skill to do so. Ergo, Tick's security measures are moxnix to those they are worried about and only impede legitimate buyers/users of thier products.

WS6TransAm01

iTrader: (13)

yes it is easy enough to copy them, and yes some are turned off to not knowing what the cam is, but I can not fault companies like Tick for doing what they are doing when it comes to cam spec disclosure. A lot of people do that, LG, CARTEK and Tick etc...

PREDATOR-Z

Actualy believe it or not, the exhaust lobe is more agressive than intake even though it has less lift.
Intake lobe is XFI (variance rate of 50)
Exhaust lobe is XE-R (variance rate of 49)

But you would need the .006 values to know that.
This cam is speced for big early midrange trq.

Correct on boosting intake charge, cam has 6* overlap so very far from LS6 cam. Idle 750>800 with good tuner (good lope), very crisp throttle response from all the extra trq and it peaks around 6100 rpm, valve spring PAC 1518 will handle that cam with no issues and no valve float with proper geometry and preload.
Power range 1800>6500

It is very DD friendly, good gas mileage, nice lope, too much overlap>not a boost cam (maybe in race with forged motor and beaucoup boost)

I want to thank you for your courage and giving it a shot to answer (my apology if I put you a bit on the spot).
The whole point is as you noticed, very little can be told from just .050 specs.
A shop could simply say it is a 224/228 110 LSA and you could not duplicate it without further info.
That is why I say hiding .050 specs is mainly a marketing hype.

The info below is how you can duplicate this cam:



.006/ 0.050/ 0.200/ lifts
274/ 224/ 149/ 3015 lobe
277/ 228/ 149/ 3724 lobe
110/ 110/ 110/ LSA
109/ 109/ 109/ ICL


28/ 3/ -34.5/ BTDC (- indicates ATDC)
66/ 41/ 3.5/ ABDC
69.5/ 45/ 5.5/ BBDC
27.5/ 3/ -36.5/ ATDC (- indicates BTDC)
111/ 111/ 111/ ECL
55.5/ 6/ -71. degrees overlap

blownws6_nc

iTrader: (10)

Hey Charlie, I guess we need to make a video of my car when I drive around in 6th gear below 50mph. As for anyone wanting to know my mods, I've got kooks lt's, ory, magnaflow catback, ls6 intake, p.p. tb. airlid, filter, 410's, tuned by Alvin @ pcm4less, the car made 410rwhp 379rwtq. and run like a raped ape. I have not got anything against anyone's choice of cams, but with a good tuner, this cam is not tough to deal with like some say. I've had blower cars with more driveability issues than with my little ol cam only car. I know this cam is not for all, but those who want to talk **** and say you got to flycut to get this cam to work, that's bs. Like I said, not knocking any cam selection you guys make, just trying to shed some light on the cam in ?.

PREDATOR-Z

Well let me ask you a question:
What is your PTV clearance on intake and exhaust?

I'm not talking Sh*t I'm just asking

blubyu02

iTrader: (17)

108dragon- man you know your stuff i got to give that to you, i wasnt expecting you to blurt out all the info you did when predator asked you about that cam im impressed and thanks for helping me so far.

Predator-z- you are like the mack brown of the Longhorns when it comes to cams you know your stuff as well i want to thanks both of yall i have learned so much from this tread alone than i would have ever known in months.

Blownws6-nc- by chance could you post an idle clip would be interested in hearing how it idles, did your fuel mileage decrease? ive got pretty much the same set-up you do except i got 373' gears. Do you have any track numbers with it as well? what would you say the biggest downside to it would be?

blownws6_nc

iTrader: (10)

That comment was not directly pointed at you, but to answer your ?, it is .60 I know alot of people swear on .80, but also alot of people run trex's with
.20 clearence also, even a few of the guys local to me, and they have not had any issue as of yet, and I know that is pushing the envelope. there again I'm not saying it's a cam for everybody, but to state it's not a good cam to dd., well that falls on the beholder. I know you are hell of a cam guru, and have produced some nice cams, which one of the you speced for my blower car and it worked well, I'm simply stating my experience with the polluter.

blownws6_nc

iTrader: (10)

Blownws6-nc- by chance could you post an idle clip would be interested in hearing how it idles, did your fuel mileage decrease? ive got pretty much the same set-up you do except i got 373' gears. Do you have any track numbers with it as well? what would you say the biggest downside to it would be?[/QUOTE]

no problem, I'll see if silverbeast can get a clip for me, being I drive a truck, and tend to stay gone for abit. mpg. did decrease some, and I have'nt been to the track yet, being this is our busiest time of the year. I have a magnaflow on the car, so it's alot tamer sound. in closing, buy the cam you thinks best for you, because that is all that matters. I was not trying to sway anyone to this cam, but it really has impressed me thus far, and with a good tuner it can be dd. with no problems. Brian

sd2001ta

iTrader: (2)

i am interested in the polluter cam also and was looking to see some track numbers from an a4 car.

Jonathan@Tick

iTrader: (5)

The polluter has around .050" clearance intake, and .070" exhaust.

When we came out with this cam, it was never intended to be or marketed as a dd friendly cam. It makes a big number on the dyno, and with a drivetrain that can handle some abuse it will put up some big numbers at the strip. If you're worried about "driveability" or "fuel mileage" and don't want to give up your factory highway gears we're always happy to help spec or reccomend something different.

I didn't personally design this cam, and I don't claim to be a "cam guru" either. Heres my uneducated point of view: This cam can be driven daily. It will get you from point a to point be without issue. It will not Idle like stock, so don't let your grandma borrow your car with this cam in it. If you're worried about how it pulls from 1500 rpms or if you tow a trailer then its probably not for you.

I personally don't give a crap what kind of numbers an LS1 makes under 3000 or even 4000 rpms. If I want to pass somebody I'll grab a gear. If I'm racing someone from a roll it probably won't dip below 5,000 rpms. And If I'm at the track I leave the line at 7,000 rpms. When you're cruising along part throttle during 95% of your street driving, how much hp and torque do you even think it takes to keep that car rolling down the road anyway?

But what do I know, I drove a .760" lift solid roller motor with a 5000 rpm stall that didn't lock up on the street regularly. I thought it had great drivability despite having only 3 gears and 4.10's out back. Drivability is all relative, but I could drive a Polluter cam only car everyday and love it.

The Manalishi

iTrader: (3)

I have daily driven a car like this as well. It was fun when I was younger. Now I want my cake and eat it too. I am not saying its a bad product but not something I would like. That is what most of the people advising against it are probably thinking about and talking about. I don't think anyone was saying its a shitty cam. It is just made for specific purpose. Big number and everything else be damned. Thats my opinion and we all know how those are.

chrs1313

iTrader: (24)

10.81 at 122mph or wait that was a 230/230 cam with 3.23 gears...

dont go by track times any cam can be made to go fast as long as it is a well thought out setup...

108dragon

iTrader: (5)

Well... I'm impressed too. I don't like farming out spec jobs because I'm a "If you don't do it yourself, you don't learn nothin'" kinda guy. But if I were you, and you really want a cam that will do exactly what you want it to do, I'd have either PredatorZ or PatG spec that cam for your car. It might be pricey. But it will do what you want it to do, and you'll only have to pay for it once. Otherwise, I think you'll end up going through a bunch of off the shelf cams before settling on one that will be a compromise for you.
That's my honest advice, all pride and bullshit aside.

I'm leaning towards what the Manalishi is saying too. Life and daily drivers for most of us aren't about 7000rpm launches and 5000 rpm all day long. Our cars have to do double and triple duty most of the time. I'm not trying to shell out my drivetrain from every stoplight either. I AM down for a DEPENDABLE 600+rwhp (and the lower in the rpm band that happens, the happier I'll be). But I want to balance that with having a dependable car and good drivability. And I KNOW for a fact that with our LSX engines its not asking too much. Maybe a hefty cash outlay and a lot of study & wrench time, but not out of bounds of expectancy.

My questions for Jonathan@Ticks are: Can the Polluter cam be DD with a big inch engine (say, 427cid), the expected supporting mods, and 3.42/3.73 gears in an M6 car? Where would the size of the engine put the powerband? Running LS7 or LS3 heads require 1.8 rockers on the exhaust side to compensate intake/exhaust ratio issues with these heads? And for the 346cid crew: Is it possible for the Polluter be tuned in for DD duty (as most of us see it) or is it hopelessly a drag cam? ... I could even live with "tuned in for street/strip" use. lol