Not All 224 Camshafts Are Equal... Engine Dyno Data INSIDE!!
There wasn't any readily available in the classifieds sections when we were ready (actually the 114 was the only one we could find on any of the forums we sponsor). If anyone has one, we'll test it too....we don't want to pay retail prices for the cams we're testing (That'd be even more crazy expensive to do all these), so we typically look for used cams when it's a competitor's.
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From: Upstate NY
There wasn't any readily available in the classifieds sections when we were ready (actually the 114 was the only one we could find on any of the forums we sponsor). If anyone has one, we'll test it too....we don't want to pay retail prices for the cams we're testing (That'd be even more crazy expensive to do all these), so we typically look for used cams when it's a competitor's.
Just curioius about something: when you swap a cam on your dyno mule, do you also use the specific valvetrain parts recommended by the cam's original supplier? Do you degree it into the designer's ICL? It's been said many times by many folks (including TSP as I recall) that it's the combination that is important.
It's not just the tool, it's how you use it that counts.
BTW, that is the most sanitary dyno room I have ever seen. Geeze, at least leave a wrench or shop towel lying around.
Keep that pump hot doing research.
Jon
I think the 224 size cam is a great cam to test...I mean every one knows about them and some people swear by the TR224...ALOT of people run them...and many different companys make a 224...seems pretty logical to test that size cam....maybe next yall can test a MS3/G5x3 or MS4/G5X4....I dont remmeber the specs on the g5x3 or g5x4 but i think they were pretty similar to the MS series cams.
That is an interesting way to save money, Matt. However it may be false economy if you don't find used cams that are different from or possibly better than what you have tested. The Catch 22 is if they are, in fact, out there, they are rarely in the classifieds or not being used.
Just curioius about something: when you swap a cam on your dyno mule, do you also use the specific valvetrain parts recommended by the cam's original supplier? Do you degree it into the designer's ICL? It's been said many times by many folks (including TSP as I recall) that it's the combination that is important.
It's not just the tool, it's how you use it that counts.
BTW, that is the most sanitary dyno room I have ever seen. Geeze, at least leave a wrench or shop towel lying around.
Keep that pump hot doing research.
Jon
Just curioius about something: when you swap a cam on your dyno mule, do you also use the specific valvetrain parts recommended by the cam's original supplier? Do you degree it into the designer's ICL? It's been said many times by many folks (including TSP as I recall) that it's the combination that is important.
It's not just the tool, it's how you use it that counts.
BTW, that is the most sanitary dyno room I have ever seen. Geeze, at least leave a wrench or shop towel lying around.
Keep that pump hot doing research.
Jon
We do make every attempt to set the valvetrain up according to the retailers design (we stock Comp and PAC springs for example to try and cover all the bases...we test different diameter pushrods and different wall thicknesses as well in this effort as well as shimming the springs and setting different installed heights when called for). We have been degreeing each cam into to multiple ICL's (ours and competitor's) to ensure a level playing field. I can tell you that some competitor cams we've tested make better average power by a nice margin at an ICL other than their recommended setting as well!
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I am not trying to start anything ... But if I were a paying sponser and someone knocked my **** 24/7 I would be pissed if no action's were taken. Yall give TSP hell around the clock and many others. IMO its not very professional, especially coming from a garage owner.
Last edited by ryan@rpm; Jul 24, 2009 at 03:42 PM.
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In a way your right, I do give TSP hell. But only when it's useless crap. Should a sponsor not have someone question them from time to time? Or if you see BS should you not say anything just because they're a sponsor?
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Verdad Gallardo I think they are probally some of the most honest guys out there... What they are doing in this thread is not BS.. I don't think they would spend this much time and effort to test all these cams just to put false info on the internet.
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Jason I didn't say they put false info in this thread. I did say that testing the same cam over and over didn't really prove much at all. The thread absolutely proved that a 224/224 cam is pretty much the same. If they did show that what ever lobe they used seemed to be a little better but still not a big deal in this case. The 224/227 as you can see made the best power, they're on the right track with that one.
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Joined: Jun 2002
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From: Upstate NY
Thanks for your post, Jon. While I'd love to test EVERYBODY'S camshafts, the fact is it's a business and we can't go around paying $400+ for every cam we test. We do the best we can at finding them in classifieds on MANY forums and have found the most popular ones fairly easily. The obscure ones are a challenge to round-up.
We do make every attempt to set the valvetrain up according to the retailers design (we stock Comp and PAC springs for example to try and cover all the bases...we test different diameter pushrods and different wall thicknesses as well in this effort as well as shimming the springs and setting different installed heights when called for). We have been degreeing each cam into to multiple ICL's (ours and competitor's) to ensure a level playing field. I can tell you that some competitor cams we've tested make better average power by a nice margin at an ICL other than their recommended setting as well!
We do make every attempt to set the valvetrain up according to the retailers design (we stock Comp and PAC springs for example to try and cover all the bases...we test different diameter pushrods and different wall thicknesses as well in this effort as well as shimming the springs and setting different installed heights when called for). We have been degreeing each cam into to multiple ICL's (ours and competitor's) to ensure a level playing field. I can tell you that some competitor cams we've tested make better average power by a nice margin at an ICL other than their recommended setting as well!
Not everyone designs for highest average power or average torque in the rpm range used by the driver/owner. If they did, max hp number might suffer...how could they then brag/sell the cam?
Gosh, the car might be quicker with better average numbers, but some folks would rather have a bigger hp number than a quicker car. That blows my mind, but I hear it too often. I guess it's like having a larger unit...even if it doesn't work as well it looks good!
As far as specific valvetain parts, that's probably more critical when you get to high BMEP high HP high rpm (also high $) engines closer to the edge of the envelope vs. street-type "224" Umbilicus cams. Isn't that the name of the latest/greatest 224 LS cam out there? I can't remember where I heard heard that name...somewhere on the net. Not yours is it?
FWIW, some cams are very difficult to find. That's not the same as being scarce.
Jon
As far as specific valvetain parts, that's probably more critical when you get to high BMEP high HP high rpm (also high $) engines closer to the edge of the envelope vs. street-type "224" Umbilicus cams. Isn't that the name of the latest/greatest 224 LS cam out there? I can't remember where I heard heard that name...somewhere on the net. Not yours is it?
FWIW, some cams are very difficult to find. That's not the same as being scarce.
Jon
FWIW, some cams are very difficult to find. That's not the same as being scarce.
Jon
Being very difficult to find used and scarce in the LS1 world are more similar than many would like to think!
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COMP - FAST - PACESETTER - DIAMOND RACING - EAGLE SPECIALTY PRODUCTS - CALLIES - COMETIC GASKETS
RAM CLUTCHES - MOSER ENGINEERING - KOOK'S HEADERS - ARP - GM BOLTS AND GASKETS - MSD - NGK
POWERBOND - ASP - AND MORE!
Largest Stocking Distributor of LS-x Engines / CHECK OUT OUR NEW WEBSITE!
COMP - FAST - PACESETTER - DIAMOND RACING - EAGLE SPECIALTY PRODUCTS - CALLIES - COMETIC GASKETS
RAM CLUTCHES - MOSER ENGINEERING - KOOK'S HEADERS - ARP - GM BOLTS AND GASKETS - MSD - NGK
POWERBOND - ASP - AND MORE!
