How would TR224 cam Vs. MTI Stealth cam sound with LT Headers & aft. market catback?
11-19-2003, 06:23 PM
#21
The TR224 114 not stealthy? You gotta be kidding me. I heard a TR224 112 through a Flowmaster catback and thought it was a stock car. My 229/233 114 BARELY lopes. The TR224 isn't going to lope hard enough to warrant the decision of going with something smaller IMO.
Also keep in mind Colonel is running LS6 heads. Unless you are running LS6 heads, you are not going to trap 119 and make that much power. With LS1 heads and a TR224 114, 119-120 should be no problem and less money spent. The Stealth II is a good cam, but needs LS6 heads to make good power. JMO
Josh
Also keep in mind Colonel is running LS6 heads. Unless you are running LS6 heads, you are not going to trap 119 and make that much power. With LS1 heads and a TR224 114, 119-120 should be no problem and less money spent. The Stealth II is a good cam, but needs LS6 heads to make good power. JMO
Josh
11-19-2003, 06:42 PM
#22
TECH Senior Member
Damian, I don't know if you directed that at me... 
...but if you did, all I said about the TR224 was that it would be rougher than the Stealth II due to having more overlap. 4 degrees more duration and 2 degrees narrow LSA. Obviously, it's not going to idle quite as smoothly.
With LS1 heads I believe I would have run 118 mph the other night. The LS6 heads are worth about 10-12 RWHP over LS1 heads with a mild 346 engine.
Your comment that the Stealth II needs LS1 heads to make good power is off, IMO. I could trap 124-125 MPH with this cam if I wanted (weight reduction, gearing, more converter, light wheels and tires, etc...) Make it LS6 heads and it's still 123-124. That's good power IMO. Like I said, the LS6 heads are only about 10-12 RWHP of my 423 RWHP.
Point being, the TR224 and Stealth II cam are very similar (same intake duration and aggressive lobes) and are going to make about the same power. We're probably looking at 2-4 HP one way or another.
...but if you did, all I said about the TR224 was that it would be rougher than the Stealth II due to having more overlap. 4 degrees more duration and 2 degrees narrow LSA. Obviously, it's not going to idle quite as smoothly.With LS1 heads I believe I would have run 118 mph the other night. The LS6 heads are worth about 10-12 RWHP over LS1 heads with a mild 346 engine.
Your comment that the Stealth II needs LS1 heads to make good power is off, IMO. I could trap 124-125 MPH with this cam if I wanted (weight reduction, gearing, more converter, light wheels and tires, etc...) Make it LS6 heads and it's still 123-124. That's good power IMO. Like I said, the LS6 heads are only about 10-12 RWHP of my 423 RWHP.
Point being, the TR224 and Stealth II cam are very similar (same intake duration and aggressive lobes) and are going to make about the same power. We're probably looking at 2-4 HP one way or another.
11-19-2003, 06:58 PM
#23
Colonel, which part did you think I directed at you? lol
Forgive me if i'm a retard, but that seems somewhat confusing. You say with the LS1 heads you would have ran 118, and they're worth 10-12 over the LS6 heads? 
I think I get what you're saying, however I disagree. LS6 heads outflow LS1 heads across the board. This will have an effect on how the car makes power throughout the entire rpm range, and run down the track. 118? Ehh, i'll say you would have ran 116, 117 at best. However still impressive for a small 220ish duration cam in a full weight car. We'll never know on your setup, but judging from what I see in my area LS6 heads seem to be worth an easy 2 mph+ over the LS1 head.
All statements are just based on what I have seen locally. Not trying to be negative about the Stealth II cam, it's a great cam among many others that MTI has brought out. But while trying to remain realistic, the average Joe w/ this cam and LS1 heads isn't going to trap 119 mph. Thats mainly the point I was trying to get across.
Cheers
With LS1 heads I believe I would have run 118 the other night. They're worth about 10-12 RWHP over LS6 heads with a mild 346 engine.
Your comment that the Stealth II needs LS6 heads to make good power is off, IMO. I could trap 124-125 MPH with this cam if I wanted (weight reduction, gearing, more converter, light wheels and tires, etc...) Make it LS6 heads and it's still 123-124. That's good power IMO. Like I said, the LS6 heads are only about 10-12 RWHP of my 423 RWHP.
Your comment that the Stealth II needs LS6 heads to make good power is off, IMO. I could trap 124-125 MPH with this cam if I wanted (weight reduction, gearing, more converter, light wheels and tires, etc...) Make it LS6 heads and it's still 123-124. That's good power IMO. Like I said, the LS6 heads are only about 10-12 RWHP of my 423 RWHP.
I think I get what you're saying, however I disagree. LS6 heads outflow LS1 heads across the board. This will have an effect on how the car makes power throughout the entire rpm range, and run down the track. 118? Ehh, i'll say you would have ran 116, 117 at best. However still impressive for a small 220ish duration cam in a full weight car. We'll never know on your setup, but judging from what I see in my area LS6 heads seem to be worth an easy 2 mph+ over the LS1 head.
All statements are just based on what I have seen locally. Not trying to be negative about the Stealth II cam, it's a great cam among many others that MTI has brought out. But while trying to remain realistic, the average Joe w/ this cam and LS1 heads isn't going to trap 119 mph. Thats mainly the point I was trying to get across.
Cheers
11-19-2003, 07:45 PM
#25
TECH Senior Member
LOL! That's what I get for trying to type in three threads at once. 
I meant that the LS6 heads are worth 10-12 over the LS6 heads, of course.
I'm just baseing my info on my own experiences and from what Jayson at MTI has told me has been there. You'll recall I had a 422ci engine with LS1 heads. I later swapped to LS6 heads AND a bigger cam (I went from the R1 to my S1) at the same time. I picked up about 4 MPH. The cam was most of that and this was with a 422ci engine. With a 346ci the difference is going to be less.
So, I will agree to disagree with you. There is, IMO, no freakin' way in hell swapping to MTI Stage II LS1 heads would slow me down to 117 MPH.
I have a feeling I may run 121 MPH with this cam soon. That'll put me back up to 119 MPH with LS1 heads by your calculations. Not bad for a full weight car.
In all seriousness, I agree that not everyone is going to see 119 MPH in a full weight car with 3.23 gears with this cam even if they do have LS6 heads. I seem to have a knack for pulling some rather unusual trap speeds if I do say so myself.
I meant that the LS6 heads are worth 10-12 over the LS6 heads, of course.I'm just baseing my info on my own experiences and from what Jayson at MTI has told me has been there. You'll recall I had a 422ci engine with LS1 heads. I later swapped to LS6 heads AND a bigger cam (I went from the R1 to my S1) at the same time. I picked up about 4 MPH. The cam was most of that and this was with a 422ci engine. With a 346ci the difference is going to be less.
So, I will agree to disagree with you. There is, IMO, no freakin' way in hell swapping to MTI Stage II LS1 heads would slow me down to 117 MPH.
I have a feeling I may run 121 MPH with this cam soon. That'll put me back up to 119 MPH with LS1 heads by your calculations. Not bad for a full weight car.
In all seriousness, I agree that not everyone is going to see 119 MPH in a full weight car with 3.23 gears with this cam even if they do have LS6 heads. I seem to have a knack for pulling some rather unusual trap speeds if I do say so myself.
11-19-2003, 09:03 PM
#26
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"Whats the most powerful stealthy cam out there?
I was thinking LPE, MTI, or the Z06 cam?"
In this order...Stealth II, Stealth I, TR's "Old Man Cam", LPE, and Z06.
I was thinking LPE, MTI, or the Z06 cam?"
In this order...Stealth II, Stealth I, TR's "Old Man Cam", LPE, and Z06.
1) Are all those cams exactly as stealthy?
2) From what I heard, with the Z06 cam is stealthy enough to fool the dealership if I ever had warranty needs. What about the Stealth II cam? Did you happen to hear how that sounds with a stock block and headers and aft exhausts?
3) Are the stealth II &I cams more powerful than LPE and the Z06 cam because the are a little less stealthier?
4) A lot of people that I have spoke to tend to believe the Stealth cams are not so stealthy because of of the 220/220 numbers unlike the LPE for instance because of the low 206/220 117.5 LSA. Members on board say if an fbody drove up at the light with a 220 cam they could tell it wasnt stock (im talking about stealth I or II users that have done tuning and have LT headers and aft exhausts on their stock untouched heads).
Its getting very hard to believe anyone here - just an example someone on this same thread said TR224 is no where near stealthy while the other totally disagrees
5) Is there anyone on board that has a Stealth I or II cam that has done tuning after the headers and catback install? I need to talk to those guys. Please help!
The only reason I am going with those cams are to stay stealthy and make decent power. If they are not stealthy it would be dumb for me to purchase them as there are many larger cams like the TR224 cam that is driveable.
I dont want to regret going with a certain cam in the future. I was told I can get a Z06 cam for $180 but money is not a big issue here. I will pay $399 for a stealth II cam if its just as stealthy and makes more power.
By the way can someone post the Stealth II cam numbers?
11-19-2003, 09:06 PM
#27
I seem to have a knack for pulling some rather unusual trap speeds if I do say so myself.
...j/k
Damian,
What do you estimate my car would turn in the 1/4 with the Stealth?
I like the slight rumble my 222 gives me.
What do you estimate my car would turn in the 1/4 with the Stealth?
I like the slight rumble my 222 gives me.
Josh
11-19-2003, 09:11 PM
#28
Originally Posted by 2002_TAWS6
Thanks for the posts Colonel.
5) Is there anyone on board that has a Stealth I or II cam that has done tuning after the headers and catback install? I need to talk to those guys. Please help!
5) Is there anyone on board that has a Stealth I or II cam that has done tuning after the headers and catback install? I need to talk to those guys. Please help!
It ain't stealthy, but it's a mute point now b/c it's coming out and probably the biggest loper of all is going in, G5X-2.
Just some FYI for those out there. It will lope with an aftermarket catback and/or cutout. Click on the link below for a sound clip through the cutout.
Here's a '00 WS6 MN6 with the following: (my brother's car)
MTI Stealth II
FLPs w/ORP
Cutout
Mangaflow Catback
Stock VE table and stock Idle speed
Recorded through the cutout
http://home.insightbb.com/~l.proctor1/ss2cam.mpg
11-19-2003, 09:14 PM
#29
Originally Posted by 2002_TAWS6
Thanks for the posts Colonel.
1) Are all those cams exactly as stealthy?
2) From what I heard, with the Z06 cam is stealthy enough to fool the dealership if I ever had warranty needs. What about the Stealth II cam? Did you happen to hear how that sounds with a stock block and headers and aft exhausts?
3) Are the stealth II &I cams more powerful than LPE and the Z06 cam because the are a little less stealthier?
4) A lot of people that I have spoke to tend to believe the Stealth cams are not so stealthy because of of the 220/220 numbers unlike the LPE for instance because of the low 206/220 117.5 LSA. Members on board say if an fbody drove up at the light with a 220 cam they could tell it wasnt stock (im talking about stealth I or II users that have done tuning and have LT headers and aft exhausts on their stock untouched heads).
Its getting very hard to believe anyone here - just an example someone on this same thread said TR224 is no where near stealthy while the other totally disagrees
5) Is there anyone on board that has a Stealth I or II cam that has done tuning after the headers and catback install? I need to talk to those guys. Please help!
The only reason I am going with those cams are to stay stealthy and make decent power. If they are not stealthy it would be dumb for me to purchase them as there are many larger cams like the TR224 cam that is driveable.
I dont want to regret going with a certain cam in the future. I was told I can get a Z06 cam for $180 but money is not a big issue here. I will pay $399 for a stealth II cam if its just as stealthy and makes more power.
By the way can someone post the Stealth II cam numbers?
1) Are all those cams exactly as stealthy?
2) From what I heard, with the Z06 cam is stealthy enough to fool the dealership if I ever had warranty needs. What about the Stealth II cam? Did you happen to hear how that sounds with a stock block and headers and aft exhausts?
3) Are the stealth II &I cams more powerful than LPE and the Z06 cam because the are a little less stealthier?
4) A lot of people that I have spoke to tend to believe the Stealth cams are not so stealthy because of of the 220/220 numbers unlike the LPE for instance because of the low 206/220 117.5 LSA. Members on board say if an fbody drove up at the light with a 220 cam they could tell it wasnt stock (im talking about stealth I or II users that have done tuning and have LT headers and aft exhausts on their stock untouched heads).
Its getting very hard to believe anyone here - just an example someone on this same thread said TR224 is no where near stealthy while the other totally disagrees
5) Is there anyone on board that has a Stealth I or II cam that has done tuning after the headers and catback install? I need to talk to those guys. Please help!
The only reason I am going with those cams are to stay stealthy and make decent power. If they are not stealthy it would be dumb for me to purchase them as there are many larger cams like the TR224 cam that is driveable.
I dont want to regret going with a certain cam in the future. I was told I can get a Z06 cam for $180 but money is not a big issue here. I will pay $399 for a stealth II cam if its just as stealthy and makes more power.
By the way can someone post the Stealth II cam numbers?
You listed some very good reasons NOT to believe everything you read on the net. I personally speak from what I have experienced in my local area. There are tons of modded LS1's here, tons of shops, and tons of "internet" setups which I have personally seen perform. So, that being said I comment on the knowledge I gather from local cars.
A 220/220 cam lopes like a joke IMO (no offense to the small cam guys). Like I said in a previous reply, the 224 114 sounds completely stock with a drilled TB hole. I really don't know where people are getting that these cams "lope". A 220-224 cam is not lope. Thats a itty bitty bit of rumble. Lope is 230/237 112 cams. A lot of lope is the ASA 226/236 110 cam. It's possible that somebody thinks the 224 will lope because they heard it in an A4 where the idle is 200 rpm lower than an M6. However in ANY M6 f-body I have ever heard, nothing below a 228 cam lopes at all IMO. Hell, my 229/233 cam is on a 114 LSA, I swapped this in from a 230/230 110 cam and my buddy's thought i put the stock cam back in....these are all LS1 driver's mind you...
Lope is subjective I guess.
Josh
11-19-2003, 09:22 PM
#30
Originally Posted by Damian
Lope is subjective I guess.
Stealth = Stock, this means it sounds EXACTLY like a STOCK LS1/LS6 engine regardless of through the cutout or the catback
Lope = anything other than stock.
That's the only real way to define it for discussions such as these.
Colonel and I agreed that the title "Stealth" tacked on the Stealth cam concurs with the definition above. That's what I and Colonel base our conversation of the SSII cam on regarding it's stealth-ness or lack thereof in my brother's and another MTI customer's car case.
It helps us keep the field as objective as possible.
Once you begin to talk about ANY lope it's all subjective as you said. Everyone's idea of lope is different.
11-19-2003, 09:48 PM
#31
TECH Senior Member
Right, when I say idles stock, I mean it sounds EXACTLY LIKE STOCK regardless of through a cuttout or a catback.
1. In MY car the Stealth II cam sounds like stock. No lope and no rumble. You can feel just a little shake when sitting in the driver's seat at idle (you can't hear it.) Kinda like a stock engine with worn plugs. You just feel a little stumble here and there. But in another car it may not be so stealthy for a variety of reasons that may or may not be known at this time. The bottom line is, the less overlap the cam has, the better chance it has of idleing like stock. It's also very important to remember that the higher you set the idle, the more stocklike it's going to sound. My cam sounds stock at 600-650, the stock cam could probably sound stock at 450, other cams may sound stock at 700, 800, or 900. Idle speed has ALOT to do with it.
The Stealth cams make more power because they're bigger cams with very aggressive ramp rates (which basically determines how fast your valves open and close.) They have more duration, more lift, and steeper ramps. So, there is less chance of a Stealth sounding 100% stock than with a smaller cam that has less overlap. However, as I've pointed out many times, a Chevrolet tech wouldn't know my car has a cam in it except maybe for the increased valvetrain noise.
To review, my engine has the stock block with the stock bottom end, MTI Stage II LS6 heads, 11.1:1 CR, and 1 3/4" QTP headers with no cats. I have the SSII cam (224/220 .581/.581 116 LSA.)
1. In MY car the Stealth II cam sounds like stock. No lope and no rumble. You can feel just a little shake when sitting in the driver's seat at idle (you can't hear it.) Kinda like a stock engine with worn plugs. You just feel a little stumble here and there. But in another car it may not be so stealthy for a variety of reasons that may or may not be known at this time. The bottom line is, the less overlap the cam has, the better chance it has of idleing like stock. It's also very important to remember that the higher you set the idle, the more stocklike it's going to sound. My cam sounds stock at 600-650, the stock cam could probably sound stock at 450, other cams may sound stock at 700, 800, or 900. Idle speed has ALOT to do with it.
The Stealth cams make more power because they're bigger cams with very aggressive ramp rates (which basically determines how fast your valves open and close.) They have more duration, more lift, and steeper ramps. So, there is less chance of a Stealth sounding 100% stock than with a smaller cam that has less overlap. However, as I've pointed out many times, a Chevrolet tech wouldn't know my car has a cam in it except maybe for the increased valvetrain noise.
To review, my engine has the stock block with the stock bottom end, MTI Stage II LS6 heads, 11.1:1 CR, and 1 3/4" QTP headers with no cats. I have the SSII cam (224/220 .581/.581 116 LSA.)
11-20-2003, 11:52 AM
#34
TECH Senior Member
Originally Posted by 4thGENRETARD
I trapped 117 N/A with SS1 220/220 and 121 with 100 shot dry (NOS). with SSF 3500 and 3:73- Mind u I'm no "expert" at the line.(YET anyways)
11-20-2003, 05:39 PM
#36
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Cannibal about the video link you posted on this post, was it with an open cutout?
You mentioned at the time it had stock VE table and stock Idle speed so I assume the sound clip was taken before any tuning?
Im going with a set of kooks headers with kooks catted y-pipe and a dynomax bullet muffler very soon. I chose to go with the cats and bullet muffler (followed by my current corsa catback) just because I am getting worried about how lobey it would sound.
Do you happen to have a sound clip of the car after the tuning and with a closed cutout?
Im trying to keep the lobe sound down to a minimum and stick with the stealth II cam. I wouldnt want the average guy next to me at the red light know I have a cam but I also dont want to go with the weakest cam if the stealth cam sounds just about the same.
How shakey is your brothers car? Hope its driveable and all. If you have any dyno numbers I would be really interested. A dyno chart would be even better.
You mentioned at the time it had stock VE table and stock Idle speed so I assume the sound clip was taken before any tuning?
Im going with a set of kooks headers with kooks catted y-pipe and a dynomax bullet muffler very soon. I chose to go with the cats and bullet muffler (followed by my current corsa catback) just because I am getting worried about how lobey it would sound.
Do you happen to have a sound clip of the car after the tuning and with a closed cutout?
Im trying to keep the lobe sound down to a minimum and stick with the stealth II cam. I wouldnt want the average guy next to me at the red light know I have a cam but I also dont want to go with the weakest cam if the stealth cam sounds just about the same.
How shakey is your brothers car? Hope its driveable and all. If you have any dyno numbers I would be really interested. A dyno chart would be even better.
11-20-2003, 05:48 PM
#37
Cannibal about the video link you posted on this post, was it with an open cutout?
You mentioned at the time it had stock VE table and stock Idle speed so I assume the sound clip was taken before any tuning?
Im going with a set of kooks headers with kooks catted y-pipe and a dynomax bullet muffler very soon. I chose to go with the cats and bullet muffler (followed by my current corsa catback) just because I am getting worried about how lobey it would sound.
Do you happen to have a sound clip of the car after the tuning and with a closed cutout?
Do you happen to have a sound clip of the car after the tuning and with a closed cutout?
If you keep cats on your car I am willing to bet you'll have no audible lope. Cats muffle A LOT of sound.
How shakey is your brothers car? Hope its driveable and all. If you have any dyno numbers I would be really interested. A dyno chart would be even better.
In comparison, my brother with the TR224 was able to pull a buddy by 2-3 cars. When he put the SSII in (only change and tuned it) he was only dead even with the same car (this car was unchanged) each time they raced from a roll from the same speed, etc.
11-20-2003, 06:21 PM
#38
TECH Senior Member
The Stealth II cam really likes to pull out on the top end due to it's wide LSA. I have mine shifting at about ~6700 and I'm fairly sure it should be at ~6800 for absolute quickest ETs in my combo. I don't doubt at all that a 224/224 114 would pull it on a roll from some certain speeds to another. This SSII cam really likes a converter with a 5300+ shift extension and it would really like alot steeper gearing than what I have too for optimum performance.
11-20-2003, 08:04 PM
#39
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Cannibal thanks for the response! 
.
Wow NO CAM SOUND with headers, highflow cats and aftermarket catback??? So the cam would sound 99% like the stock cam? this is too good to be true.
very interesting.... lets see here...
Now if I were to go with the TR224 cam and have headers, catted y-pipe and a dynomax billet muffler right before the corsa catback will it still sound like I have a cam in the car?
Talk about being greedy .
At first I thought I could still hear the MTI SII cam with my headers/exhaust setup.
Now if I could make the TR224 cam sound stealthy that would be a dream come true.
Could I really make the TR 224 cam with this specs sound stealthy?
224/224 .561/.561 114 LSA
(Is this is the TR224 cam that everyone is talking about?)
By stealthy I mean sounds just like stock during idle, fool service dealerships to avoid losing warranty, and no one could tell its in there except myself.
How is the driveability with TR224 cam? shakey, lumpy, idle movement? anything ?
What do you think Cannibal? Colonel your input would also be very appreciated.
Make me one happy guy. The cam install offer by nitrous dave will only last till the end of November.
So far im going with the Stealth II cam as I see its the most powerful stealthy cam out there. But if the TR224 makes more power with same driveability as the MTI SSII cam and I can make it sound as stealthy as stock then im going for it.
By the way im sticking with 100% stock heads and no cutouts.
. Wow NO CAM SOUND with headers, highflow cats and aftermarket catback??? So the cam would sound 99% like the stock cam? this is too good to be true.
very interesting.... lets see here...
Now if I were to go with the TR224 cam and have headers, catted y-pipe and a dynomax billet muffler right before the corsa catback will it still sound like I have a cam in the car?
Talk about being greedy
.At first I thought I could still hear the MTI SII cam with my headers/exhaust setup.
Now if I could make the TR224 cam sound stealthy that would be a dream come true.
Could I really make the TR 224 cam with this specs sound stealthy?
224/224 .561/.561 114 LSA
(Is this is the TR224 cam that everyone is talking about?)
By stealthy I mean sounds just like stock during idle, fool service dealerships to avoid losing warranty, and no one could tell its in there except myself.
How is the driveability with TR224 cam? shakey, lumpy, idle movement? anything ?
What do you think Cannibal? Colonel your input would also be very appreciated.
Make me one happy guy. The cam install offer by nitrous dave will only last till the end of November.
So far im going with the Stealth II cam as I see its the most powerful stealthy cam out there. But if the TR224 makes more power with same driveability as the MTI SSII cam and I can make it sound as stealthy as stock then im going for it.
By the way im sticking with 100% stock heads and no cutouts.