ARE 436 stroker, if anyone is interested what was wrong with it......................
Did he get this done at the Drive-thru Dyno?
I'm not the best one to judge what really happened here, but something definantly sounds fishy here. Either way, I don't think the guy should have to pay for the engine repairs.
Engine builder says it was tuners fault, that should be addressed with the tuner. The tuner should be liable for something if he let it drive off his dyno with a crap tune. If it was running that rich, it shouldn't have run worth a flip, and pulling the appropriate amount of fuel should have cleared up some of the starving issues.
If nothing else, the work should be covered simply for a PR issue especially with all the bad PR going around for ya'll.
I'm not the best one to judge what really happened here, but something definantly sounds fishy here. Either way, I don't think the guy should have to pay for the engine repairs.
Engine builder says it was tuners fault, that should be addressed with the tuner. The tuner should be liable for something if he let it drive off his dyno with a crap tune. If it was running that rich, it shouldn't have run worth a flip, and pulling the appropriate amount of fuel should have cleared up some of the starving issues.
If nothing else, the work should be covered simply for a PR issue especially with all the bad PR going around for ya'll.
ARE tried to sort this out months ago, but I think we are finally getting somewhere. We're going to have to finalize this week to take care of Lyle. I wish we did this earlier. I have been emailing Quicken on the side. Thanks
I dont know how important this is... but it *doesnt* take that long to wash out rings. I'd say a 150 mile drive, at one consistent rpm, getting *way* too much fuel, would totally kill a new set of rings. Kill'em dead.
When I bought my new motor from MTI, I discussed break in with Jayson for 30 minutes. He warned me that running with a bad O2 can be fatal in 15 minutes (washing out the rings) and that I should not keep the car at one RPM for more than about 30 seconds (if I had to drive on a highway, speed up a little, slow down, change hears, etc... but he would rather I didnt)... otherwise I would create improper wear in on different parts of the cylinder. Also, he said if I wanted the engine to last for 100k miles, not to run over 4500-5000 rpm for the first 500-1000 miles.
Just as an observation... but that dyno and then the 150 mile drive could have killed the rings.
chris
When I bought my new motor from MTI, I discussed break in with Jayson for 30 minutes. He warned me that running with a bad O2 can be fatal in 15 minutes (washing out the rings) and that I should not keep the car at one RPM for more than about 30 seconds (if I had to drive on a highway, speed up a little, slow down, change hears, etc... but he would rather I didnt)... otherwise I would create improper wear in on different parts of the cylinder. Also, he said if I wanted the engine to last for 100k miles, not to run over 4500-5000 rpm for the first 500-1000 miles.
Just as an observation... but that dyno and then the 150 mile drive could have killed the rings.
chris
Originally Posted by Orange Krush
I would like to have U explain how an engine with out enuff fuel pump to make the original dyno pull, https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/25-480-rwhp-5000-rpm.html could possibly gas wash the cylinders on the 150 mile ride home?
Lyle distinctly states original dyno pull saw a loss of 10psi of fuel pressure!
Lyle distinctly states original dyno pull saw a loss of 10psi of fuel pressure!
Here is an example of a stock fuel pump car running deep 10's (10.3x as a matter of fact heads/Cam/Bottle) Seems like some year stock fuel pumps might handle more than we give them credit for.. https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...447#post851447
Thread Starter
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From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA
I guess I should have learned more about projects like this, its really my fault I guess. I did ask Barry if the 150 mile ride home was OK for break in, or should I trailer the car home and break it in driving in the city. He said it was just fine on the HWY as long as I don't cruise at one set rpm for long, so I was up and down and all over the place with the rpm's all the way home. I just don't know what esle I could have done after the motor was tuned and run on the dyno and checked out fine as far as O2 readings go. Ed Wright and Mike spoke many times and they both say the tune was within the correct perameters, so I picked up my car and took it home.
Either way, Dave DiLuca has e-mailed me and told me what I need to do about having my motor possibly sent to them, I'll talk to Wade on Monday.
Look, I bought the motor from them because they build the baddest motors out there, having it repaired by them will make me happy as a clam.
Either way, Dave DiLuca has e-mailed me and told me what I need to do about having my motor possibly sent to them, I'll talk to Wade on Monday.
Look, I bought the motor from them because they build the baddest motors out there, having it repaired by them will make me happy as a clam.
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Verdad Gallardo Thread Starter
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Joined: Dec 2001
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From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA
Originally Posted by Flyer
Did he get this done at the Drive-thru Dyno?
I'm not the best one to judge what really happened here, but something definantly sounds fishy here. Either way, I don't think the guy should have to pay for the engine repairs.
Engine builder says it was tuners fault, that should be addressed with the tuner. The tuner should be liable for something if he let it drive off his dyno with a crap tune. If it was running that rich, it shouldn't have run worth a flip, and pulling the appropriate amount of fuel should have cleared up some of the starving issues.
If nothing else, the work should be covered simply for a PR issue especially with all the bad PR going around for ya'll.
I'm not the best one to judge what really happened here, but something definantly sounds fishy here. Either way, I don't think the guy should have to pay for the engine repairs.
Engine builder says it was tuners fault, that should be addressed with the tuner. The tuner should be liable for something if he let it drive off his dyno with a crap tune. If it was running that rich, it shouldn't have run worth a flip, and pulling the appropriate amount of fuel should have cleared up some of the starving issues.
If nothing else, the work should be covered simply for a PR issue especially with all the bad PR going around for ya'll.
Thing is, Ed Wright tuned the PCM, Mike Norris just checked it on his dyno to make sure it was all good.
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Originally Posted by Orange Krush
Hold up, hold up, 
now go easy on the stupid guy in the corner here, but after reading and re-reading this post and all associated posts, I would like to have U explain how an engine with out enuff fuel pump to make the original dyno pull, https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25 could possibly gas wash the cylinders on the 150 mile ride home?
Lyle distinctly states original dyno pull saw a loss of 10psi of fuel pressure!
now go easy on the stupid guy in the corner here, but after reading and re-reading this post and all associated posts, I would like to have U explain how an engine with out enuff fuel pump to make the original dyno pull, https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25 could possibly gas wash the cylinders on the 150 mile ride home? Lyle distinctly states original dyno pull saw a loss of 10psi of fuel pressure!
Chris
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From: Plainville,MA
Originally Posted by Chris ARE 360
You can run extremely lean at WOT and still wash the rings at lower rpms. Fuel starvation up top from not enough pump and too much injector without proper scaling down low and at idle.
Chris
Chris
Now that makes sense!
Thank U!
Last edited by Orange Krush; Nov 23, 2003 at 05:42 AM.
Thread Starter
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From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA
Hey Dave, I appreciate the help breaking the ice, Wade and I have made contact and it looks like I'll be sending you my motor for warranty repair.
You have no idea how relieved I am.
Thanks again
You have no idea how relieved I am.
Thanks again
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From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA
Originally Posted by Krazy98TA
Glad you gave them a chance to look at the motor
I feel lucky its working out, hope to be
again soon.
Launching!
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 250
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From: Oceanside CA
Originally Posted by Flyer
...Engine builder says it was tuners fault, that should be addressed with the tuner. The tuner should be liable for something if he let it drive off his dyno with a crap tune. If it was running that rich, it shouldn't have run worth a flip, and pulling the appropriate amount of fuel should have cleared up some of the starving issues...
Funny how a bunch of motorheads and car-guys understand the concept of avoiding being an integrator better than CIO's (Chief Information Officers) of huge companies do...
Quicken, no problem. I will get back to you regarding the nitrous email you sent me tonight. But that cam you have is identical to the one we went 9.25@155 in the C5 I suggest a TNT ring and 150HP to start, then maybe 200 later on. You won't need more then that.
We have A local customer has the exact 436 motor and cam you have with a stick C5. It was going high 10's on the motor at 130-131 and mid to low 10's at 142mph on that TNT 200 shot sideways down the track with tires on it. Can't hook it!
See if you can get a TNT ring and we'll help you out.
Scott, I like when a customer sends us the whole car for the motor and tuning. That way we know it is our setup when it leaves with a safe air/fuel ratio and everything checks out right. Thanks
I suggest a TNT ring and 150HP to start, then maybe 200 later on. You won't need more then that. We have A local customer has the exact 436 motor and cam you have with a stick C5. It was going high 10's on the motor at 130-131 and mid to low 10's at 142mph on that TNT 200 shot sideways down the track with tires on it. Can't hook it!
See if you can get a TNT ring and we'll help you out.
Scott, I like when a customer sends us the whole car for the motor and tuning. That way we know it is our setup when it leaves with a safe air/fuel ratio and everything checks out right. Thanks
Thread Starter
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From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA
Originally Posted by SLED28
Quicken, no problem. I will get back to you regarding the nitrous email you sent me tonight. But that cam you have is identical to the one we went 9.25@155 in the C5 I suggest a TNT ring and 150HP to start, then maybe 200 later on. You won't need more then that.
We have A local customer has the exact 436 motor and cam you have with a stick C5. It was going high 10's on the motor at 130-131 and mid to low 10's at 142mph on that TNT 200 shot sideways down the track with tires on it. Can't hook it!
See if you can get a TNT ring and we'll help you out.
Scott, I like when a customer sends us the whole car for the motor and tuning. That way we know it is our setup when it leaves with a safe air/fuel ratio and everything checks out right. Thanks
I suggest a TNT ring and 150HP to start, then maybe 200 later on. You won't need more then that. We have A local customer has the exact 436 motor and cam you have with a stick C5. It was going high 10's on the motor at 130-131 and mid to low 10's at 142mph on that TNT 200 shot sideways down the track with tires on it. Can't hook it!
See if you can get a TNT ring and we'll help you out.
Scott, I like when a customer sends us the whole car for the motor and tuning. That way we know it is our setup when it leaves with a safe air/fuel ratio and everything checks out right. Thanks
Where do I get one?
Dave,
I'm more interested in spraying from a roll, I'm not interested in the track much.
So, is that cam just fine for thatand how big of a shot can I go with from a roll?
I heard its better to have more exhaust duration than intake duration with nitrous.
Thanks.
Quickin,
Why are you even thinking about spraying? That ARE 436 should be devistate just about anything on the highway from a roll NA.
Spray is also a great way to blow stuff up if the tune isn't right and voids any warranty automatically.
Why are you even thinking about spraying? That ARE 436 should be devistate just about anything on the highway from a roll NA.
Spray is also a great way to blow stuff up if the tune isn't right and voids any warranty automatically.