All the parts should have been fully covered by the manufacturer, right?

 

If a motor gets sent back to any shop, they take it apart look for the problem and find it. I can tell you if the rings/bores are washed, or if you detonated it. Or whatever... We can see everything that has happened to it.
So now if it was not the Engine shops fault, there may be fees to fix it. Maybe thats why shops out there give surprises to customers from time to time. We can tell exactly how that motor was treated!
When this happens, we never charge full pop, we always work with the customer.

 

Why? me driving the car with low oil pressure cause the motor to go. Of course the parts are gonna fail, it wasnt a manufactures defect.

 

How can a dyno tune, an A-Tap and a scan show the tune to be perfect yet its too rich?
The oil burn seemd to have stopped for awhile but picked up right where it left off and is still burning massively.

 

A-Tap is the worst tuning tool ever for a/f ratio. You can not use millivolts to convert to A/F ratio. The cars o2 sensors are completly different then a dyno's wide-band o2. Its not even apples to oranges, its more like apples to steak.

 

The 11 degrees of knock was when it detonated at part throttle and it showed it was rich at that point. Not that the PCM was set rich.

It takes time to wash cylinders, I burned 2 qrts in the first 150 miles the motor had.

 

Forgetting about the A-Tap, how can two different sessions of Wide-band O2 dyno tunes from Mike Norris show that the tune was good and the scan that another shop did for me showed OK on the A/F?

 

In those previous posts, there was no place where a dyno 02 was used. It was very early on in the initial car fire up and break-in.
Sorry, but this may be a good lesson for all you guys with motors to Make Sure your car is 100% properly tuned initially or even 5000 miles later. Improper tuning DESTROYS Motors at any time in their life! Thanks

 

Maybe at this point a better question would be, How much will Wade charge me to re-ring my motor if I get it to your shop?

 

I will talk to him on Monday and let you know.

 

Mike Norris dyno checked it thouroughly the first time it was ever started up and dynoed, it was just fine when he told me to come pick the car up.

 

I'd appreciate it. Thanks.

 

Background see all the links anyone that really wants to understand what's going on with this. The last two links have a lot of important info to this situation. Yes I read all of the stuff listed.

ARE 436 ordered 02-26-02
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/63635-436cid-ordered.html

ARE 436 shipping 09-08-02
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/67298-building-ls6-motor-questions-about-hp-tq.html

Quicken asks how to properly break in his new ARE 436...talks about trailering car home to make sure break in is done right!
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/67460-break-question-my-new-436ci.html

Smelled gas w/o gauge cluster & stalled - this was before ARE 436 was shipped to customer
https://ls1tech.com/forums/pcm-diagnostics-tuning/44484-its-final-mileage-stored-cluster-only-i-checked-out.html

ARE 436 shipping 11-23-02
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/69028-242-242-610-610-114-lsa-scratching-my-head.html

Dyno'd on 12-19-02, tuning, cold start & idle discussion on 98's being less flexiable on cold start.
Customer still hasn't taken position as of 01-01-03
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/25-480-rwhp-5000-rpm.html

30-day Update had car for a month 02-26-03 - one year after motor was ordered.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/1410-436-stuff-30-day-update.html

Asking other owners about their ARE 436's & tuning discussion 05-25-03 thru 06-02-03
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/76879-who-has-436ci-stroker-motor.html

Leak down test requested by ARE due to customers WOT issues 05-28-03
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/77656-holes-pistons-cracked-rings.html

Quest for power...concerns the ARE 436 dyno'd low...going to re-ring...unclear if leak down was done...unclear if Ed retuned...appears car was NOT retuned 08-12-03
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/93241-500-rwhp-n-a4-full-interior-daily-drivers.html

Red Hot glowing cats 10-29-03
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-external-engine/110621-catylitic-converter-glowing-red-hot.html


Did you ask for a 230/230 cam and Nick put a 242/242 instead?

Which parts were paided for and what was actually installed in the motor? Lunati kit or Cola, Manley, Ross etc?

Is there a written warranty on this motor? Please scan and post if there is.

Started emailing Wade and Barry around 08-15-03 about the issues?

Were the rings set up for NOS?

Was the car running fine before the Ed Wright re-tune ~ 05/01 to 05/20?

Seven days after the Ed re-tuned the 03 Cobra was raced and the big bang occured?

What was the result of the leak down test ARE asked for on 05-28-03? Was it done?

With 4 gallons of 100 octane race gas all detonation went away?

 

Whatever happens with this motor get rid of that Ed Wright tuning. While the motor is being fixed...get that PCM set back to stock and let Norris do the tune.

 

[QUOTE=99 Black Bird T/A]Background see all the links anyone that really wants to understand what's going on with this. The last two links have a lot of important info to this situation. Yes I read all of the stuff listed.

ARE 436 ordered 02-26-02
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63635

ARE 436 shipping 09-08-02
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67298

Quicken asks how to properly break in his new ARE 436...talks about trailering car home to make sure break in is done right!
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67460

Smelled gas w/o gauge cluster & stalled - this was before ARE 436 was shipped to customer
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44484

ARE 436 shipping 11-23-02
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69028

Dyno'd on 12-19-02, tuning, cold start & idle discussion on 98's being less flexiable on cold start.
Customer still hasn't taken position as of 01-01-03
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25

30-day Update had car for a month 02-26-03 - one year after motor was ordered.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1410

Asking other owners about their ARE 436's & tuning discussion 05-25-03 thru 06-02-03
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76879

Leak down test requested by ARE due to customers WOT issues 05-28-03
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77656

Quest for power...concerns the ARE 436 dyno'd low...going to re-ring...unclear if leak down was done...unclear if Ed retuned...appears car was NOT retuned 08-12-03
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93241

Red Hot glowing cats 10-29-03
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=110621


Did you ask for a 230/230 cam and Nick put a 242/242 instead?
I asked for a 230/230 because idle quality was my main concern. I got a 242/242. But I will tell you this, it was a good mistake because the motor idles like a stock car.

Which parts were paided for and what was actually installed in the motor? Lunati kit or Cola, Manley, Ross etc?
I was assured that I was getting a Lunati rotating assembly. I have Manley rods, Ross pistons and a Cola crank.


Is there a written warranty on this motor? Please scan and post if there is.
No, just the 2yr./24,000 mile warranty that was posted on there site way back when.

Started emailing Wade and Barry around 08-15-03 about the issues?
First contact with ARE about the detonation was shortly after May 2 or 3rd when I picked the car up from Norris, after the Racetronix was installed and the motor re-tuned by Ed and dyno checked.

Were the rings set up for NOS?
They are inbetweenies. Good for N/A and light spray.

Was the car running fine before the Ed Wright re-tune ~ 05/01 to 05/20?
[b]The car ran perfect as far as power and sound, but it never went WOT due to the stock fuel pump being in there. It may have detonated if I went WOT.

Seven days after the Ed re-tuned the 03 Cobra was raced and the big bang occured?
Correct, it was literally the first time I went WOT. Also, the oil burn was from day one so I don't see why that matters. Heavy oil burn means bad rings or valve seals & guides. Bad valve seals and guides were ruled out because I have no smoke at all on start up in the morning.

What was the result of the leak down test ARE asked for on 05-28-03? Was it done?
I kind of stopped driving the car because Barry told me not to let it detonate anymore. They told me to take the car to a shop that they wanted me to go to, Breathless Covette. They told me it would be 6-8 weeks before they could get me in, no shiit. I wasn't gonna drive it to Orlando like that either. I had it Leak checked by a friend, #3 cylinder leaked down 45% and the air was coming out the oil fill cap, # 2 leaked down 15% and you could hear the air coming through the oil fill cap. He stopped there and said the rings are toast.

With 4 gallons of 100 octane race gas all detonation went away?
Yup. I was told the higher octane will help the A/F to burn despite the oil getting into the A/F mixture.

[b]A re-tune regardless who did it would be a waste of time and $$$ because the rings were clearly bad from day one. Whether or not is was the tune, me or some other strange factor that hammered the rings. So no. I didn't get a 3rd tune in a 6 month period.

 

WOW!

Thanks for clarifing.

 

We talked to Norris, and the car was never dyno checked after the new fuel pump went in. Not sure if memories are fading...

 

The PCM was sent back to Ed Wright, then Mike dynoed it and it pulled 466/467.
Mike said the motor was just fine during the dyno runs with the new pump installed.
The car wasn't dynoed by the shop that installed my pump here in Ft. Lauderdale if thats what you mean. They just installed it and then I went back to Mike and had the PCM re-tuned by Ed and re-installed, then it was re-dynoed.

 

Quicken, I sent you an email.

 

Hold up, hold up, now go easy on the stupid guy in the corner here, but after reading and re-reading this post and all associated posts, I would like to have U explain how an engine with out enuff fuel pump to make the original dyno pull, https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25 could possibly gas wash the cylinders on the 150 mile ride home?

Lyle distinctly states original dyno pull saw a loss of 10psi of fuel pressure!