ARE 436 stroker, if anyone is interested what was wrong with it......................
11-22-2003, 12:01 PM
#81
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Originally Posted by Krazy98TA
First off I wanna mention my dealings with ARE. When my 346 went back to ARE for warranty work I was under the assumption that I wasnt gonna get a bill. Wade then called me and mentioned he was gonna take care of the motor and that i might have to split the cost on parts. Well he called me to let me know I owed X amount of dollars for half the parts. At first I was heated cause one that X amount for parts was not in my budget. Then after realizing that hey your getting a new motor for near nothing compared to what it was new and it was probably my fault the first motor went so why not pay the man. Anyways after it was all said and done and after the car was running, like 2 weeks later or so Dave Diluca emailed me to see how things were going with the motor cause Wade wanted to know how I made out. I was shocked to even hear a response from ARE but I felt that was great customer service to get back to me and make sure everything was doing great.
Alot of you guys bitch about repair bills, can u know for sure you had that motor tuned and installed properly. I had 3,000 miles on my motor and ARE built me a new motor and it cost me chump change to get the motor back from them. If they installed the motor themselves and tuned it themselves then I would go after them to cover the whole cost. Not only that they are in a tough business where everyone is hard core racers and we all take our motors to redline on a constant basis, its tough warranting a motor thats gonna be used to race.
Alot of you guys bitch about repair bills, can u know for sure you had that motor tuned and installed properly. I had 3,000 miles on my motor and ARE built me a new motor and it cost me chump change to get the motor back from them. If they installed the motor themselves and tuned it themselves then I would go after them to cover the whole cost. Not only that they are in a tough business where everyone is hard core racers and we all take our motors to redline on a constant basis, its tough warranting a motor thats gonna be used to race.
11-22-2003, 12:04 PM
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If a motor gets sent back to any shop, they take it apart look for the problem and find it. I can tell you if the rings/bores are washed, or if you detonated it. Or whatever... We can see everything that has happened to it.
So now if it was not the Engine shops fault, there may be fees to fix it. Maybe thats why shops out there give surprises to customers from time to time. We can tell exactly how that motor was treated!
When this happens, we never charge full pop, we always work with the customer.
So now if it was not the Engine shops fault, there may be fees to fix it. Maybe thats why shops out there give surprises to customers from time to time. We can tell exactly how that motor was treated!
When this happens, we never charge full pop, we always work with the customer.
11-22-2003, 12:06 PM
#84
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Originally Posted by SLED28
Direct QUOTE From QUICKEN from Last year on LS1Tech:
"The oil burn was from day 1 back in February. A friend told me way back then that if my car was shooting raw, unburned fuel from the tailpipes with the first tune, then I was washing the cylinders and that will most definitely burn the hell outta my oil. Probably explained the huge trail of smoke I left behind when I would get on it. SO, 4 weeks ago when I got this new tune at least the raw fuel thing went away. I burned 1.5 qrts. of oil in 320 miles after this latest re-tune as a test. I figured something was royally screwed and the fuel problem didn't get fixed with the re-tune. Well, I checked the oil yesterday and I've clicked off another 500+ miles and I haven't burned a drop, it's stable at the top of the hatch marks and clean as the day it went it. So, my friend said that since the cylinder washing stopped, the rings have now seated. I think he's right (I'm no expert), if not a miracle has occured. I was putting a qrt per week in my motor and now it's been 2 weeks and 500+ miles and not a drop has burned off. "
"The oil burn was from day 1 back in February. A friend told me way back then that if my car was shooting raw, unburned fuel from the tailpipes with the first tune, then I was washing the cylinders and that will most definitely burn the hell outta my oil. Probably explained the huge trail of smoke I left behind when I would get on it. SO, 4 weeks ago when I got this new tune at least the raw fuel thing went away. I burned 1.5 qrts. of oil in 320 miles after this latest re-tune as a test. I figured something was royally screwed and the fuel problem didn't get fixed with the re-tune. Well, I checked the oil yesterday and I've clicked off another 500+ miles and I haven't burned a drop, it's stable at the top of the hatch marks and clean as the day it went it. So, my friend said that since the cylinder washing stopped, the rings have now seated. I think he's right (I'm no expert), if not a miracle has occured. I was putting a qrt per week in my motor and now it's been 2 weeks and 500+ miles and not a drop has burned off. "
The oil burn seemd to have stopped for awhile but picked up right where it left off and is still burning massively.
11-22-2003, 12:09 PM
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A-Tap is the worst tuning tool ever for a/f ratio. You can not use millivolts to convert to A/F ratio. The cars o2 sensors are completly different then a dyno's wide-band o2. Its not even apples to oranges, its more like apples to steak.
11-22-2003, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by SLED28
One More quote from QUICKEN:
" after the re-tune I got new tires, went with a couple friends and raced the car for the first time EVER in it's life. From a 50 roll. The detonation was so loud my buddy in his full bolt-on '03 Cobra next to me heard it, I let out of it when the noise started at about 120mph, the power completely died off as well. I wasn't sure what it was so I had my friend ATAP it a few days later and thats when it showed 11 degrees of KR at part throttle and rich and he also heard the noise at WOT. He has listened to many cars and ATAP and tuned cars as well, he said it sounded like I was losing a couple cylinders at WOT."
" after the re-tune I got new tires, went with a couple friends and raced the car for the first time EVER in it's life. From a 50 roll. The detonation was so loud my buddy in his full bolt-on '03 Cobra next to me heard it, I let out of it when the noise started at about 120mph, the power completely died off as well. I wasn't sure what it was so I had my friend ATAP it a few days later and thats when it showed 11 degrees of KR at part throttle and rich and he also heard the noise at WOT. He has listened to many cars and ATAP and tuned cars as well, he said it sounded like I was losing a couple cylinders at WOT."
It takes time to wash cylinders, I burned 2 qrts in the first 150 miles the motor had.
11-22-2003, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by SLED28
A-Tap is the worst tuning tool ever for a/f ratio. You can not use millivolts to convert to A/F ratio. The cars o2 sensors are completly different then a dyno's wide-band o2. Its not even apples to oranges, its more like apples to steak.
11-22-2003, 12:13 PM
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In those previous posts, there was no place where a dyno 02 was used. It was very early on in the initial car fire up and break-in.
Sorry, but this may be a good lesson for all you guys with motors to Make Sure your car is 100% properly tuned initially or even 5000 miles later. Improper tuning DESTROYS Motors at any time in their life! Thanks
Sorry, but this may be a good lesson for all you guys with motors to Make Sure your car is 100% properly tuned initially or even 5000 miles later. Improper tuning DESTROYS Motors at any time in their life! Thanks
11-22-2003, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by SLED28
A-Tap is the worst tuning tool ever for a/f ratio. You can not use millivolts to convert to A/F ratio. The cars o2 sensors are completly different then a dyno's wide-band o2. Its not even apples to oranges, its more like apples to steak.
11-22-2003, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by SLED28
In those previous posts, there was no place where a dyno 02 was used. It was very early on in the initial car fire up and break-in.
Sorry, but this may be a good lesson for all you guys with motors to Make Sure your car is 100% properly tuned initially or even 5000 miles later. Improper tuning DESTROYS Motors at any time in their life! Thanks
Sorry, but this may be a good lesson for all you guys with motors to Make Sure your car is 100% properly tuned initially or even 5000 miles later. Improper tuning DESTROYS Motors at any time in their life! Thanks
11-22-2003, 01:45 PM
#93
Background see all the links anyone that really wants to understand what's going on with this. The last two links have a lot of important info to this situation. Yes I read all of the stuff listed.
ARE 436 ordered 02-26-02
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/63635-436cid-ordered.html
ARE 436 shipping 09-08-02
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/67298-building-ls6-motor-questions-about-hp-tq.html
Quicken asks how to properly break in his new ARE 436...talks about trailering car home to make sure break in is done right!
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/67460-break-question-my-new-436ci.html
Smelled gas w/o gauge cluster & stalled - this was before ARE 436 was shipped to customer
https://ls1tech.com/forums/pcm-diagnostics-tuning/44484-its-final-mileage-stored-cluster-only-i-checked-out.html
ARE 436 shipping 11-23-02
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/69028-242-242-610-610-114-lsa-scratching-my-head.html
Dyno'd on 12-19-02, tuning, cold start & idle discussion on 98's being less flexiable on cold start.
Customer still hasn't taken position as of 01-01-03
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/25-480-rwhp-5000-rpm.html
30-day Update had car for a month 02-26-03 - one year after motor was ordered.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/1410-436-stuff-30-day-update.html
Asking other owners about their ARE 436's & tuning discussion 05-25-03 thru 06-02-03
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/76879-who-has-436ci-stroker-motor.html
Leak down test requested by ARE due to customers WOT issues 05-28-03
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/77656-holes-pistons-cracked-rings.html
Quest for power...concerns the ARE 436 dyno'd low...going to re-ring...unclear if leak down was done...unclear if Ed retuned...appears car was NOT retuned 08-12-03
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/93241-500-rwhp-n-a4-full-interior-daily-drivers.html
Red Hot glowing cats 10-29-03
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-external-engine/110621-catylitic-converter-glowing-red-hot.html
Did you ask for a 230/230 cam and Nick put a 242/242 instead?
Which parts were paided for and what was actually installed in the motor? Lunati kit or Cola, Manley, Ross etc?
Is there a written warranty on this motor? Please scan and post if there is.
Started emailing Wade and Barry around 08-15-03 about the issues?
Were the rings set up for NOS?
Was the car running fine before the Ed Wright re-tune ~ 05/01 to 05/20?
Seven days after the Ed re-tuned the 03 Cobra was raced and the big bang occured?
What was the result of the leak down test ARE asked for on 05-28-03? Was it done?
With 4 gallons of 100 octane race gas all detonation went away?
ARE 436 ordered 02-26-02
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/63635-436cid-ordered.html
ARE 436 shipping 09-08-02
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/67298-building-ls6-motor-questions-about-hp-tq.html
Quicken asks how to properly break in his new ARE 436...talks about trailering car home to make sure break in is done right!
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/67460-break-question-my-new-436ci.html
Smelled gas w/o gauge cluster & stalled - this was before ARE 436 was shipped to customer
https://ls1tech.com/forums/pcm-diagnostics-tuning/44484-its-final-mileage-stored-cluster-only-i-checked-out.html
ARE 436 shipping 11-23-02
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/69028-242-242-610-610-114-lsa-scratching-my-head.html
Dyno'd on 12-19-02, tuning, cold start & idle discussion on 98's being less flexiable on cold start.
Customer still hasn't taken position as of 01-01-03
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/25-480-rwhp-5000-rpm.html
30-day Update had car for a month 02-26-03 - one year after motor was ordered.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/1410-436-stuff-30-day-update.html
Asking other owners about their ARE 436's & tuning discussion 05-25-03 thru 06-02-03
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/76879-who-has-436ci-stroker-motor.html
Leak down test requested by ARE due to customers WOT issues 05-28-03
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/77656-holes-pistons-cracked-rings.html
Quest for power...concerns the ARE 436 dyno'd low...going to re-ring...unclear if leak down was done...unclear if Ed retuned...appears car was NOT retuned 08-12-03
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/93241-500-rwhp-n-a4-full-interior-daily-drivers.html
Red Hot glowing cats 10-29-03
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-external-engine/110621-catylitic-converter-glowing-red-hot.html
Did you ask for a 230/230 cam and Nick put a 242/242 instead?
Which parts were paided for and what was actually installed in the motor? Lunati kit or Cola, Manley, Ross etc?
Is there a written warranty on this motor? Please scan and post if there is.
Started emailing Wade and Barry around 08-15-03 about the issues?
Were the rings set up for NOS?
Was the car running fine before the Ed Wright re-tune ~ 05/01 to 05/20?
Seven days after the Ed re-tuned the 03 Cobra was raced and the big bang occured?
What was the result of the leak down test ARE asked for on 05-28-03? Was it done?
With 4 gallons of 100 octane race gas all detonation went away?
11-22-2003, 02:46 PM
#95
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[QUOTE=99 Black Bird T/A]Background see all the links anyone that really wants to understand what's going on with this. The last two links have a lot of important info to this situation. Yes I read all of the stuff listed.
ARE 436 ordered 02-26-02
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63635
ARE 436 shipping 09-08-02
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67298
Quicken asks how to properly break in his new ARE 436...talks about trailering car home to make sure break in is done right!
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67460
Smelled gas w/o gauge cluster & stalled - this was before ARE 436 was shipped to customer
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44484
ARE 436 shipping 11-23-02
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69028
Dyno'd on 12-19-02, tuning, cold start & idle discussion on 98's being less flexiable on cold start.
Customer still hasn't taken position as of 01-01-03
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25
30-day Update had car for a month 02-26-03 - one year after motor was ordered.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1410
Asking other owners about their ARE 436's & tuning discussion 05-25-03 thru 06-02-03
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76879
Leak down test requested by ARE due to customers WOT issues 05-28-03
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77656
Quest for power...concerns the ARE 436 dyno'd low...going to re-ring...unclear if leak down was done...unclear if Ed retuned...appears car was NOT retuned 08-12-03
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93241
Red Hot glowing cats 10-29-03
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=110621
Did you ask for a 230/230 cam and Nick put a 242/242 instead?
I asked for a 230/230 because idle quality was my main concern. I got a 242/242. But I will tell you this, it was a good mistake because the motor idles like a stock car.
Which parts were paided for and what was actually installed in the motor? Lunati kit or Cola, Manley, Ross etc?
I was assured that I was getting a Lunati rotating assembly. I have Manley rods, Ross pistons and a Cola crank.
Is there a written warranty on this motor? Please scan and post if there is.
No, just the 2yr./24,000 mile warranty that was posted on there site way back when.
Started emailing Wade and Barry around 08-15-03 about the issues?
First contact with ARE about the detonation was shortly after May 2 or 3rd when I picked the car up from Norris, after the Racetronix was installed and the motor re-tuned by Ed and dyno checked.
Were the rings set up for NOS?
They are inbetweenies. Good for N/A and light spray.
Was the car running fine before the Ed Wright re-tune ~ 05/01 to 05/20?
[b]The car ran perfect as far as power and sound, but it never went WOT due to the stock fuel pump being in there. It may have detonated if I went WOT.
Seven days after the Ed re-tuned the 03 Cobra was raced and the big bang occured?
Correct, it was literally the first time I went WOT. Also, the oil burn was from day one so I don't see why that matters. Heavy oil burn means bad rings or valve seals & guides. Bad valve seals and guides were ruled out because I have no smoke at all on start up in the morning.
What was the result of the leak down test ARE asked for on 05-28-03? Was it done?
I kind of stopped driving the car because Barry told me not to let it detonate anymore. They told me to take the car to a shop that they wanted me to go to, Breathless Covette. They told me it would be 6-8 weeks before they could get me in, no shiit. I wasn't gonna drive it to Orlando like that either. I had it Leak checked by a friend, #3 cylinder leaked down 45% and the air was coming out the oil fill cap, # 2 leaked down 15% and you could hear the air coming through the oil fill cap. He stopped there and said the rings are toast.
With 4 gallons of 100 octane race gas all detonation went away?
Yup. I was told the higher octane will help the A/F to burn despite the oil getting into the A/F mixture.
[b]A re-tune regardless who did it would be a waste of time and $$$ because the rings were clearly bad from day one. Whether or not is was the tune, me or some other strange factor that hammered the rings. So no. I didn't get a 3rd tune in a 6 month period.
ARE 436 ordered 02-26-02
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63635
ARE 436 shipping 09-08-02
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67298
Quicken asks how to properly break in his new ARE 436...talks about trailering car home to make sure break in is done right!
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67460
Smelled gas w/o gauge cluster & stalled - this was before ARE 436 was shipped to customer
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44484
ARE 436 shipping 11-23-02
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69028
Dyno'd on 12-19-02, tuning, cold start & idle discussion on 98's being less flexiable on cold start.
Customer still hasn't taken position as of 01-01-03
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25
30-day Update had car for a month 02-26-03 - one year after motor was ordered.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1410
Asking other owners about their ARE 436's & tuning discussion 05-25-03 thru 06-02-03
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76879
Leak down test requested by ARE due to customers WOT issues 05-28-03
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77656
Quest for power...concerns the ARE 436 dyno'd low...going to re-ring...unclear if leak down was done...unclear if Ed retuned...appears car was NOT retuned 08-12-03
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93241
Red Hot glowing cats 10-29-03
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=110621
Did you ask for a 230/230 cam and Nick put a 242/242 instead?
I asked for a 230/230 because idle quality was my main concern. I got a 242/242. But I will tell you this, it was a good mistake because the motor idles like a stock car.
Which parts were paided for and what was actually installed in the motor? Lunati kit or Cola, Manley, Ross etc?
I was assured that I was getting a Lunati rotating assembly. I have Manley rods, Ross pistons and a Cola crank.
Is there a written warranty on this motor? Please scan and post if there is.
No, just the 2yr./24,000 mile warranty that was posted on there site way back when.
Started emailing Wade and Barry around 08-15-03 about the issues?
First contact with ARE about the detonation was shortly after May 2 or 3rd when I picked the car up from Norris, after the Racetronix was installed and the motor re-tuned by Ed and dyno checked.
Were the rings set up for NOS?
They are inbetweenies. Good for N/A and light spray.
Was the car running fine before the Ed Wright re-tune ~ 05/01 to 05/20?
[b]The car ran perfect as far as power and sound, but it never went WOT due to the stock fuel pump being in there. It may have detonated if I went WOT.
Seven days after the Ed re-tuned the 03 Cobra was raced and the big bang occured?
Correct, it was literally the first time I went WOT. Also, the oil burn was from day one so I don't see why that matters. Heavy oil burn means bad rings or valve seals & guides. Bad valve seals and guides were ruled out because I have no smoke at all on start up in the morning.
What was the result of the leak down test ARE asked for on 05-28-03? Was it done?
I kind of stopped driving the car because Barry told me not to let it detonate anymore. They told me to take the car to a shop that they wanted me to go to, Breathless Covette. They told me it would be 6-8 weeks before they could get me in, no shiit. I wasn't gonna drive it to Orlando like that either. I had it Leak checked by a friend, #3 cylinder leaked down 45% and the air was coming out the oil fill cap, # 2 leaked down 15% and you could hear the air coming through the oil fill cap. He stopped there and said the rings are toast.
With 4 gallons of 100 octane race gas all detonation went away?
Yup. I was told the higher octane will help the A/F to burn despite the oil getting into the A/F mixture.
[b]A re-tune regardless who did it would be a waste of time and $$$ because the rings were clearly bad from day one. Whether or not is was the tune, me or some other strange factor that hammered the rings. So no. I didn't get a 3rd tune in a 6 month period.
Last edited by Quickin; 11-22-2003 at 03:35 PM.
11-22-2003, 03:40 PM
#98
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Originally Posted by SLED28
We talked to Norris, and the car was never dyno checked after the new fuel pump went in. Not sure if memories are fading...
Mike said the motor was just fine during the dyno runs with the new pump installed.
The car wasn't dynoed by the shop that installed my pump here in Ft. Lauderdale if thats what you mean. They just installed it and then I went back to Mike and had the PCM re-tuned by Ed and re-installed, then it was re-dynoed.
11-22-2003, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by SLED28
First the motor had the rings washed out on the critical break-in!!
now go easy on the stupid guy in the corner here, 
but after reading and re-reading this post and all associated posts, I would like to have U explain how an engine with out enuff fuel pump to make the original dyno pull, https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25 could possibly gas wash the cylinders on the 150 mile ride home? Lyle distinctly states original dyno pull saw a loss of 10psi of fuel pressure!
Last edited by Orange Krush; 11-23-2003 at 05:35 AM.