Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

A4, locked converter, 9", 4.11 gears, 28" slicks, dual exhaust.

Quickin

Through my A4 my 436 was at 485 RWHP at 5,000 rpm before it was aborted when the fuel pressure began to drop at 5,000.
Wonder if it would have gone over 500 if a full pull was possible????????

Quickin

Can a converter be locked up while racing at WOT?
How does a lock-up switch work?

Damian

iTrader: (89)

**cough**11.0/121**cough**cough**

99 Black Bird T/A

iTrader: (4)

Anyone know why Sled isn't responding to this thread too?

SLED28

iTrader: (7)

This motor was incorrectly tuned from day one and driven like that. Lyle told us way back. We also told him to ship the motor back but chose not to like he said. Just trying to keep peace. If the motor makes 485 rwhp untuned at 5000rpms, what does it matter if the heads flow 330 or 300 or 280 for that matter... Whats it gonna do tuned properly! If Some people want hogged to s h i t heads that have 340cfm because their cool, and make nothing but peak power then so be it. But that won't help at the track. The torque will not be there... I used to get caught up in the flow numbers thing myself, but realized its only one part of the equation. I am more interested in track numbers (especially if you equal out DA's and weight from car to car). We make contact with these shops that have these cars to hear the other side of the story and it is different sometimes... Thanks

angst911

you're telling me a norris motorsports tune wasn't the best? wow... there is a surprise.

SLED28

iTrader: (7)

No not Norris. Somebody else did it way back.

sbrown99TA

Glad to hear your getting it worked out. That's kind of the wrong way to think about it though, if they fixed every customer's engine that may or may not have gone because because of something they (the customer) did, it probably would put the imto bankruptcy, and nobody wants that.

Quickin

Hey Dave,

Ed Wright did the tune, Mike Norris dyno checked everything before he called me to come pick up my car. I never said my car has a bad tune but I'm gonna drive it anyway. It was all fine as far as the tune. When I got it home after picking the car up it was about 2 qrts low on oil. Now lets say the tune was bad on the day I picked it up. Is 2 qrts of oil burn normal in 150 miles of HWY driving to get it home?
Now if both Mike Norris and Ed Wright conspired to destroy my motor and let me drive it home in a bad condition than thats what had to happen. But I don't think thats what happened. I'm convinced that Ed Wright nows what he's doing and I KNOW for a fact that Mike Norris is one of the top tuners/builders anywhere.

I was all for sending my motor back to Wade for a warranty repair but I never once received a return e-mail or phone call saying it was going to be done at no charge, thats all I was concerened with. I was concered because people started e-mailing me about getting huge bills for what they thought was going to be repiar work when they sent there motors back for warranty work. I got quotes from Mike Norris to do the motor R&R and send the motor to Wade, thats how close I was to sending it back to Wade for repair. I did however get an e-mail response (one of two since this started) saying that he thought my bad tune caused the damage, the tune was fine when I picked up my car, otherwise Mike would never have let me taken it. I have many e-mails to and from you explaining that I can't get a return response from Wade or Barry and asked if you could walk across the shop and tell them I need to speak to them, you said it wasn't your department that you only work there.

Here's one of them:
From: "Dave DiLuca"
To: "Quickin Quickin"
Subject: Re: Hi Lyle
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 15:40:56 -0400

20 top 18 2nd for pure N/A
22 top 20 2nd for both/small nitrous
24 top 22 2nd for lots of nitrous

I don't know why they don't answer your emails, I am not in that
dept....


Here's another while I was waiting for weeks to get a return response:

----- Original Message -----
From: "Quickin Quickin"
To: "Dave DiLuca"
Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2003 3:35 PM
Subject: Re: Hi Lyle

I wish Wade or Barry would return one of my e-mails about
covering the parts, it's just a simple quick question.

Thanks,

Lyle

Since I can't get any responses from the people that can answer my questions about my motor being fixed at no charge, can you ask Wade if I send my motor to him, will it be fully repaired under warranty?

How long and how much work is it to tear it down and re-ring it anyway?

I'm not trying to get something for free, I did send Nick A $16,150 for the motor and the other stuff.

Thanks.

99 Black Bird T/A

iTrader: (4)

Let me make sure I understand this...

These emails were sent on Sept 6, 2003 and no response until after Nov. 19th 2003 when this thread started, on a motor that you paid over $16,000 for?

Who does the customer contact stuff at ARE? They really dropped big stinking on Quickin by not replying in that time frame.

Quickin

I sent e-mails weeks before the September e-mail as well. The e-mails in September were just me asking Dave DiLuca if he could get a message to Wade and an answer to my warranty question.

My friend Terry Rowed e-mailed ARE through there submission form on there site about a 427 build-up in September just for the hell of it, Wade answered that e-mail as soon as there shop vacation was over. The submission was sent on July 24th. I also tried the submission form to get hold of them about my warranty questions.

Here it is:


From: info@agostino-racing.com Add to Address Book
To: terryrowed@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Agostino-Racing Information Request
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 13:54:45 -0400

Hello Terry,

Sorry for the delay in responding back to you, our shop closes down at the end of July every year for summer holidays.

Thank you for your interest in our company.

I would prefer to build it as a 422ci to keep the sleeves thicker ( no power difference) we are @ a 8 week turn around and our warranty covers block leaking or assembly issues, parts failure is covered by the manufactuer. The cost of our 422ci is $12,800 USD (engine core required)

GIve me a call at the shop so that we can discuss in detail what your specific requirements are at 1-866-539-4605 or 905-420-9195.

Looking forward to speaking with you.

Wade Stevens
Agostino Racing Engines


I never once posted how Nick Agostino lied to me on a weekly basis from Feb 2002 (when my check was received) through Oct 2002 while I waited for my motor. A motor that was supposed to be shipped by the end of Feb 2002. And since Wade hooked me up and took great care of me after I demanded my money back after almost 10 months, I still never posted about it. He explained what was going on and I then put all my trust in him and waited a little longer. I had my motor in 2 weeks. And a kick-*** strong motor it was.

BTW, the $16,150 included an LS6 intake, ported TB, asp pulley, new valve covers and pcv system, air lid, ported LS6 oil pump (supposedly) and a set of Grot 1 7/8" LT's. So really the motor was about $13,500-$14,000. This is the deal I made with Nick, Wade had no problem honoring it after 10 months.

99 Black Bird T/A

iTrader: (4)

What data did you first contact ARE about this issue? This started before the Sept email? When was Wade first contacted about this?

SLED28

iTrader: (7)

We told you to send the motor back under warranty. But you don't want to because of the shipping costs or something. Don't cause problems that we tried to fix, and the first 150 miles are the most critical! It is the break-in period! Don't quote my private emails please.

Quickin

OK, here's the full story.

I left Mike Norris' shop in Feb 2003, the motor was friggin perfect. Ran like a bastard and smooth. The motor was first started and dyno tested by Mike Norris earlier that week. I picked it up and drove it home. About 2 qrts of oil got burned in that 150 mile drive. I filled it back up and watched it on a daily basis. After about a month I came to the conclusion that I was burning about 1.5-2 qrts every 300 miles or so. I could never run it at WOT because I was waiting for my Racetronix fuel system to go in. After I finally got it put in and retuned, and dyno checked again by Mike Norris on May 2nd 2003, I picked my car up again. Also reporting the oil burn to Mike Norris again. I thought I would take it now that the fuel pump is in and I can run it at WOT and see if the oil burn is the same after some miles are put on it. It wasn't any better. Then I got some BFG drags put on a few days later because I figured now I could race it. My first all out race ever was on the street from a 50mph roll. The second I went WOT it detonated so bad that the guy in the full bolt-on '03 Cobra next to me heard it clearly. I immediately lifted from the pedal and called ARE. Barry told me that I shouldn't go WOT anymore and to get it back to Mike Norris for a check. Instead of driving it 150 miles to Orlando I had it checked by 3 different tuners here at home. A-Tapped and scanned. They all said the A/F was perfect and as far as they could see there's nothing wrong with the tune. But they heard the detonation. I also had slight detonation at part throttle with less than 15% throttle position. This is when the bad ring theory began. I was told that at WOT if oil is getting by the rings and mixing with the A/F it will cause detonation. I called and asked MTI, Morgan, MORE, THUNDER, LPE and a few other shops, they all agreed.
The massive oil burn was from day 1, so I know the rings weren't hurt from the one time I heard detonation almost 2 months later, so I figured they didn't seat properly from day 1 and gradually got worse and worse, because the power of the motor slowly dissipated as well. What else could cause detonation? I never once heard it during the time I waited for my Racetronix fuel pump to go in, maybe because the rings were nice and new and not in such a bad state yet. Then when I finally could take it to WOT it detonated on me.
So I'm figuring this has been known to ARE since about mid May this year.
Now, when I bought the motor from Nick I told him I would only buy the motor if Mike Norris could do any future warranty work if need be, because he's relatively close to me compared to Toronto. He assured me that Mike would be approved to do anything, parts and labor, I have his e-mail still. (one of Nicks lies). But by this time Nick was out of the company and Wade said that I couldn't have Mike do anything on the motor. I should have gotten that in writing from Nick, eh?
So, now I'm looking at spending about $1500 for a motor R&R and about $600 in shipping the motor to ARE for repair and probably about $500 to rent a car. I don't have it. Then I started getting e-mails from people telling me about getting huge bills from ARE for there alleged warranty repairs. This is pre-Wade running ARE keep in mind. So I just wanted clarity that the motor would be re-ringed at no cost to me, because if I were to get a bill I wasn't able to pay it at that time.

And now I'm hear, a car thats basically a grocery getter. And it doesn't really matter what anyone says about the tune being off, because there's no way in hell that Mike Norris is gonna let me drive off with a car twice (especially a huge stroker motor like this) that isn't tuned properly. And unless a tune within a PCM can change by itself, it's just not the tune. The tune is just a nice excuse to use for why a motor got damaged. Burnt bearing, dirty oil. Blown head gaskets, you let it overheat. Burnt piston, you let it run lean. Bad rings, you tuned it improperly. There's always a reason, so what does a warranty really cover? I think just the manufacturers parts, because then its no cost to the shop.
And I really don't think my motor is damaged other than the rings needing to be changed. It starts up with the first bump every morning, idles perfect within 1 minute, runs perfectly smooth and quiet all day every day, no SES codes, gets good gas mileage and is simply a damn good motor. It just needs new rings. The only symptoms I have is: I leave a swirling cloud of smoke behind only when I hit the gas, it will blow a cloud of smoke out if I rev it in "park", the intake is 100% clean of oil, no smoke comes out on start-up, and the leakdown test showed my rings were horrible. Air was shooting out of my oil fill cap.

It seems so simple and factual that my only problem is my rings. If I had the cash I would drive my car off the end of a pier and start fresh. What a shiity experience this has been. And if that weren't enough, Dave DiLuca, being honest with me e-mails me to tell me that they refuse to build the 436ci for customers anymore if its gonna be for street use only. Everyone who knows me knows that my car was to be for 100% street use, never to be taken to a race track. I told Nick this and he recommends a 436 for street use. Listening to the experts sometimes f@$ks you pretty bad. I should have listened to Mike Norris in the beginning when he told me that a 427 would be better for the street. Many shops have told me that the ring set on a 436 is iffy and could cause problems, and they refuse to build them.

Now Wade is running things and is smart enough to stop building the 436 for street use. I wish Nick would have told me this.

Just great

Quickin

But I was never told that it wouldn't cost me anything to repair it, thats my only concern. Because I can't swing a big bill. I could get the motor to you if I knew it would be covered fully.

Thats all I need to know and thats all I can't seem to get confirmation on.

Krazy98Z28

iTrader: (12)

First off I wanna mention my dealings with ARE. When my 346 went back to ARE for warranty work I was under the assumption that I wasnt gonna get a bill. Wade then called me and mentioned he was gonna take care of the motor and that i might have to split the cost on parts. Well he called me to let me know I owed X amount of dollars for half the parts. At first I was heated cause one that X amount for parts was not in my budget. Then after realizing that hey your getting a new motor for near nothing compared to what it was new and it was probably my fault the first motor went so why not pay the man. Anyways after it was all said and done and after the car was running, like 2 weeks later or so Dave Diluca emailed me to see how things were going with the motor cause Wade wanted to know how I made out. I was shocked to even hear a response from ARE but I felt that was great customer service to get back to me and make sure everything was doing great.

Alot of you guys bitch about repair bills, can u know for sure you had that motor tuned and installed properly. I had 3,000 miles on my motor and ARE built me a new motor and it cost me chump change to get the motor back from them. If they installed the motor themselves and tuned it themselves then I would go after them to cover the whole cost. Not only that they are in a tough business where everyone is hard core racers and we all take our motors to redline on a constant basis, its tough warranting a motor thats gonna be used to race.

SLED28

iTrader: (7)

Direct QUOTE From QUICKEN from Last year on LS1Tech:
"The oil burn was from day 1 back in February. A friend told me way back then that if my car was shooting raw, unburned fuel from the tailpipes with the first tune, then I was washing the cylinders and that will most definitely burn the hell outta my oil. Probably explained the huge trail of smoke I left behind when I would get on it. SO, 4 weeks ago when I got this new tune at least the raw fuel thing went away. I burned 1.5 qrts. of oil in 320 miles after this latest re-tune as a test. I figured something was royally screwed and the fuel problem didn't get fixed with the re-tune. Well, I checked the oil yesterday and I've clicked off another 500+ miles and I haven't burned a drop, it's stable at the top of the hatch marks and clean as the day it went it. So, my friend said that since the cylinder washing stopped, the rings have now seated. I think he's right (I'm no expert), if not a miracle has occured. I was putting a qrt per week in my motor and now it's been 2 weeks and 500+ miles and not a drop has burned off. "

SLED28

iTrader: (7)

One More quote from QUICKEN:

" after the re-tune I got new tires, went with a couple friends and raced the car for the first time EVER in it's life. From a 50 roll. The detonation was so loud my buddy in his full bolt-on '03 Cobra next to me heard it, I let out of it when the noise started at about 120mph, the power completely died off as well. I wasn't sure what it was so I had my friend ATAP it a few days later and thats when it showed 11 degrees of KR at part throttle and rich and he also heard the noise at WOT. He has listened to many cars and ATAP and tuned cars as well, he said it sounded like I was losing a couple cylinders at WOT."

SLED28

iTrader: (7)

First the motor had the rings washed out on the critical break-in!! Then it was tuned leaned to s h i t, and then rattled the motor hard. I personally don't think this has anything to do with the motor or assembly. It is the tuning which destroys the motor so many times out there, you wouldn't beleive it.

Even knowing all this ARE STILL told Quicken to send the motor back we will warranty it.

Like I said, its nice to hear the other side of the story. I do not wish to talk on here, but I am getting forced to stand up for what I think is right. Yes taking so long to get the motor is wrong (we were very busy) but the motor is everything that was ordered.

Anybody can email me at sled28@look.ca anytime. Thanks