can oil affect yoru power out put?
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 8,319
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From: North Carolina
can oil affect yoru power out put? im sure this has been asked but im gonna throw it out there. yeah i know less friction will mean more power. right now im running mobil 1 in the engine and about to put some mobil 1 in the rear end. and im using regualr atf. i saw a hot rod tv thing where thye dynoed a 00 SS and got a little over 8 rwhp changing oil out. however it was nasty lookin oil so im sure just puttin new regular oil in would have helped. they used that purple oil stuff. would it really benefit to use this? has anyone dynoed new fluids vs new fluids? thanks
It's possible to gain a small amount, like 3-5 HP running one of the fancier/thinner oils. However it's really not worth it. Run a good, well known name brand oil and you'll be fine..
I run nothing but Valvoline in all my cars. Always have, always will...
Josh
I run nothing but Valvoline in all my cars. Always have, always will...
Josh
i ran moble 1 5W50 and i lost power on the dyno - about 5-7 rwhp over the reg 15W30 or so. overall i wouldnt worry about it if you are running reg weight oil. i dont buy into the whole purple majic oil stuff.
11 Second Club
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,541
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From: Boring Green, Kentucky
I'm not really boned up on oil specs. Anyone wanna give me crash course? I ran 15W-50 Mobil 1 after my H/C install. I'm in S. Florida--->always warm/humid.
My tuner was impressed with the numbers on the dyno runs, and then asked what oil I used. I don't know what to make of this. Am I thin or thick?
My tuner was impressed with the numbers on the dyno runs, and then asked what oil I used. I don't know what to make of this. Am I thin or thick?
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 8,319
Likes: 1
From: North Carolina
first number has to do with cold cranking thickness, and the second is thickness when its hot. thtas why u want 5/30 in the inder cause when its cold its thinner
15W50 would be considered somewhat thick (I'm running it here in AZ but hope to drop back down to 5W30 or 10W30 after I rebuild) and as such can cause a slight loss in HP due to extra energy being required to pump the thick oil. On the other side, the thicker oil will have fewer tendencies to leak past the rings thus giving a cleaner burn and thus some more HP.
so...toss a coin........
so...toss a coin........
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11 Second Club
Joined: Aug 2003
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From: Boring Green, Kentucky
Originally Posted by 2001CamaroGuy
15W50 would be considered somewhat thick (I'm running it here in AZ but hope to drop back down to 5W30 or 10W30 after I rebuild) and as such can cause a slight loss in HP due to extra energy being required to pump the thick oil. On the other side, the thicker oil will have fewer tendencies to leak past the rings thus giving a cleaner burn and thus some more HP.
so...toss a coin........
so...toss a coin........
It's always so freakin' hot down here, I thought this might be a good choice.
Last edited by 1ScrudeDude; Dec 11, 2003 at 08:07 PM.
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A couple years ago, GMHTP did a back to back dyno run on a Caprice they were doing some bolt-ons with, before and after changing the fluids from "stock" to Red Line.
Bottom line, what I remember is that they gained 8-10 RWHP going to complete Red Line fluids (engine, trans, diff). However, they didn't say what fluids were in the car originally, so I don't know if stepping "up" from something like Mobil 1 will net the same results.
Just one observation.
Bottom line, what I remember is that they gained 8-10 RWHP going to complete Red Line fluids (engine, trans, diff). However, they didn't say what fluids were in the car originally, so I don't know if stepping "up" from something like Mobil 1 will net the same results.
Just one observation.
Synthetic oil is bad for some posi units. It you have one with clutches like most of the 12 bolts and 9 inch units, you want only dinno juice and limited slip addative in there.
Originally Posted by Cal
Synthetic oil is bad for some posi units. It you have one with clutches like most of the 12 bolts and 9 inch units, you want only dinno juice and limited slip addative in there.
I was told synthtics are not "bad" for posi, but rather is can actually be too slick and cause the clutches to slip. This won't hurt the clutches but just turns your exspensive posi into an open diff.
The slip addative is a thickener than helps the clutches engage better. 11 Second Club
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,541
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From: Boring Green, Kentucky
Originally Posted by 2001CamaroGuy
Hot....you don't know what HOT is 
Hey where's Patman? This is an oil thread!
P.S. 2001CamaroGuy, hey, at least it's a DRY heat!
Originally Posted by 1ScrudeDude
P.S. 2001CamaroGuy, hey, at least it's a DRY heat!
.....I used to live in Mississippi (most of my family is there)......humidity sucksAbout the crank case pump, I went that rount and while it did solve the oil "burning", it didn't stop the oil consuption. Instead of burning the oil, it got sucked up out of the pan, through the pump, and into a catch can. Vacuum pump = race only
Oil consumption and burning would be one in the same.If you're consuming, you're burning. I'd check the heads, and do a leakdown. Were you using a vaccum system that used a purposed made pump, and not one that runs off the collector? How much vaccum were you using, and you can't use a stock pan when you install one of these.The aftermarket needs to produce a good pan. It's not really adequate. I don't use any type of spin-on cartridge oil filter they just are not what I felt would do the job.
Originally Posted by sawedoff
Were you using a vaccum system that used a purposed made pump, and not one that runs off the collector? How much vaccum were you using, and you can't use a stock pan when you install one of these.The aftermarket needs to produce a good pan. It's not really adequate. I don't use any type of spin-on cartridge oil filter they just are not what I felt would do the job.
yep.....it was a TRUE vacuum system comprised of a 3 van pump that ran off the crank and showed about 21 in/hg at 6500RPM. Even with a offshot off the LS6 valley cover (custom made) to seperate oil from the air before it left the block (into the feed line to the pump), at anything over 10 in/hg (~3000RPM) oil started to get pulled out of the oil pan (the overflow/catch can after the pump was ~1 quart and it would be 1/2 full at the end of the day....about 100 miles).
How is the stock oil pan not adequate?
I wish it had a little more capacity (like the C5 pan) but there is not any room. How are the spin-on cartridge oil filters not any good?
Originally Posted by 2001CamaroGuy
yep.....it was a TRUE vacuum system comprised of a 3 van pump that ran off the crank and showed about 21 in/hg at 6500RPM. Even with a offshot off the LS6 valley cover (custom made) to seperate oil from the air before it left the block (into the feed line to the pump), at anything over 10 in/hg (~3000RPM) oil started to get pulled out of the oil pan (the overflow/catch can after the pump was ~1 quart and it would be 1/2 full at the end of the day....about 100 miles).
How is the stock oil pan not adequate? I wish it had a little more capacity (like the C5 pan) but there is not any room.
How are the spin-on cartridge oil filters not any good?
How is the stock oil pan not adequate?
I wish it had a little more capacity (like the C5 pan) but there is not any room. How are the spin-on cartridge oil filters not any good?
Originally Posted by sawedoff
The stock pan is strong because it's a casting, but for road racing, it's sorely lacking in the design. I'm not familiar with the C5 pan, I'll go and look it up. The spin-on cartridges create too much restriction and pressure ,and only filter 35% of the oil.Plus, the filter media can be spotty and occassionally collapse.They'll work, don't get me wrong. I had heard of the oil pumps in the LS1 before I bought mine.I saw the tiny *** OEM filter that came on the car, and said "there's part of the problem." (excessive pressure, heat build up, too close to the exhaust system, too small, consumes horsepower because of the engines' having to fight that restrictive design by overcoming pressure.) I chose to eliminate all those variables, and did actually see an improvement power wise. By the way, I totally agree with you on one of the threads that you posted on "Russian Roullette." It's scary what some of those guys subscribe to, and when you you try to help them, they get pissy and personal about it.
I relocated my oil filter (replaced with a dual filter bracket) to where the battery was, use filters that are each about twice the size of the factory filter (each hold a quart), and installed an oil cooler. The oil gauge not only had more pressure (more flow) but it also added about 2.5-3 quarts to the system.
The oil pan deal is what I talked about the C5 pan. It has little "wings" that jut out in the rear by the sump to hold more oil during corners. Its just too bad it won't fit on an f-body.
Really it is amazing how easy people get "butthurt" around here. They just can’t stand the through of someone not agreeing with them (questioning their “manhood” or something).
Viscosity I think matters more than "friction" - the
metal parts are supposed to be riding on the oil
film, hydrodynamic on the mains & cam bearings,
etc. A thicker oil loses more energy in the viscous
shear in the bearings, as well as costing more to
pump through the system.
The 50 "hot" rating is going to be higher viscosity
than the 30 that's recommended. Thicker helps
only if you have worn enough that oil control is a
problem; if you have adequate pressure to feed the
journals (not head pressure, but pressure at the
bearing) a more viscous oil isn't buying you anything.
metal parts are supposed to be riding on the oil
film, hydrodynamic on the mains & cam bearings,
etc. A thicker oil loses more energy in the viscous
shear in the bearings, as well as costing more to
pump through the system.
The 50 "hot" rating is going to be higher viscosity
than the 30 that's recommended. Thicker helps
only if you have worn enough that oil control is a
problem; if you have adequate pressure to feed the
journals (not head pressure, but pressure at the
bearing) a more viscous oil isn't buying you anything.