What would you do?
02-06-2010, 02:13 PM
#41
Launching!
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No wonder the current owner is confused....
If the heads are indeed ported stock castings, the only way to know for sure what you have to work with would be to have them independently flowed. A well ported set of heads could possibly produce those numbers, but truth in advertising has long been a problem. Building the combination around too many unknown variables may only lead to disappointment down the road.
If the heads are indeed ported stock castings, the only way to know for sure what you have to work with would be to have them independently flowed. A well ported set of heads could possibly produce those numbers, but truth in advertising has long been a problem. Building the combination around too many unknown variables may only lead to disappointment down the road.
02-06-2010, 05:31 PM
#42
Sounds like a waste of money to have them flow tested yourself. Previous owned should supply you with the printout from AFR, but to meet you goals you are probably going to at least need some ported ls6 heads (casting #243). They might even need to be milled some to bump the compression up.
02-06-2010, 05:35 PM
#43
OK so the previous owner is claiming AFR 205 heads. You are claiming AFR ported 241 heads? SO what the hell are the actual heads? Go out to your damn car and look at the casting number or if the AFR logo is engraved on the end of the heads, should be obvious. This seems way more difficult than it should be.
02-06-2010, 06:04 PM
#44
OK so the previous owner is claiming AFR 205 heads. You are claiming AFR ported 241 heads? SO what the hell are the actual heads? Go out to your damn car and look at the casting number or if the AFR logo is engraved on the end of the heads, should be obvious. This seems way more difficult than it should be.
Pics of heads from OP
[/IMG]Sellers ad
....someone got ripped offI am considering selling my 2001 black ws.6. M6. I am the original owner. The car is in excellent condition with a ton of mods. I am asking $18,000obo
2001 TransAm WS.6/ 440RWHP 400rwtq 30K miles, clean title, and garage kept from day one.
Direct flow intake lid/K&N filter-
FLP long tube headers w/ stainless steel high flow cast and swappable off road pipes.
ATR All stainless steel catback exhaust system. ASP underdrive pulley.
AFR 205cc Stage II heads.
Thunder racing 228/228 performance Camshaft.
Eradispeed Rotors on all 4 corners.
BMR subframes/ adj. panhard/ adj. torque arm,/LCA's/Strut tower brace
4:10 gm motive gears
Chrome 18" ZO6 rims on 275/35/18 Comp g-force TA KD's. Custom white face WS.6 gauge overlays.
Custom Billet WS.6 4 piece pedal set.
B&M Ripper shifter with custom WS.6 billet shift ****.
QTP electric cutout. Harlan shift light. embroidered head rests.
12 disc delco CD changer in the hatch.
custom cut and custom made billet WS6 hood nostril inserts and billet custom made side fender inserts. (6 pieces)
tinted windows. sides, rear and t-tops.
Interior is perfect. not a scuff. leather is perfect.
This is a must see and must drive car for the serious enthusiast.
I still have the original window sticker and all paperwork.
I have tons of pictures and will show the car to serious potential buyers.
thanks for looking!
2001 TransAm WS.6/ 440RWHP 400rwtq 30K miles, clean title, and garage kept from day one.
Direct flow intake lid/K&N filter-
FLP long tube headers w/ stainless steel high flow cast and swappable off road pipes.
ATR All stainless steel catback exhaust system. ASP underdrive pulley.
AFR 205cc Stage II heads.
Thunder racing 228/228 performance Camshaft.
Eradispeed Rotors on all 4 corners.
BMR subframes/ adj. panhard/ adj. torque arm,/LCA's/Strut tower brace
4:10 gm motive gears
Chrome 18" ZO6 rims on 275/35/18 Comp g-force TA KD's. Custom white face WS.6 gauge overlays.
Custom Billet WS.6 4 piece pedal set.
B&M Ripper shifter with custom WS.6 billet shift ****.
QTP electric cutout. Harlan shift light. embroidered head rests.
12 disc delco CD changer in the hatch.
custom cut and custom made billet WS6 hood nostril inserts and billet custom made side fender inserts. (6 pieces)
tinted windows. sides, rear and t-tops.
Interior is perfect. not a scuff. leather is perfect.
This is a must see and must drive car for the serious enthusiast.
I still have the original window sticker and all paperwork.
I have tons of pictures and will show the car to serious potential buyers.
thanks for looking!
Last edited by AFASTYZFR1; 02-06-2010 at 06:17 PM.
02-06-2010, 06:18 PM
#45
Those ARE OEM 241 heads and your #'s are in range for for unported heads and that cam..... I would even say pretty good with those heavy wheels....
I would say that CJ owes you some $$$$ back for misrepresentation
.... He has had it since new so he knew WTF was on it......
I HATE people like that
I would say that CJ owes you some $$$$ back for misrepresentation
.... He has had it since new so he knew WTF was on it...... I HATE people like that
You may want to invest in a stronger rear end that way you can run some D/Rs I dont care how much power you have it doesnt mean JACK without traction even on the street.
02-06-2010, 07:32 PM
#48
If I were in your boat, I would look for some better heads, as has been mentioned previously. Go ahead and throw some good roller rockers in there (I recommend YT ultra lites). Since all that cam lacks really is some lift, go with some 1.8 rockers, that will get the lift where you want it without buying a new cam. That will put your lift just over .600''.
Past that, optimize what you have. Compression test it, re-tune it, etc.
Past that, optimize what you have. Compression test it, re-tune it, etc.
02-06-2010, 08:09 PM
#49
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AFASTYZR1 @ SOMbitch-
You guys should really know the facts before just making assumptions....
Please don't make a foolish statement that the numbers are in line of a cam only car. Please show me ONE ls1 with stock heads and a 228 cam with a weak .568 lift that made 425+ rwhp.
I have NEVER seen one.
Everyone has seen the cam only cars that have made 390++ hp, but you are talking about VERY VERY aggressive cam specs. (and not the best drive-ability) No 228/.568lift cam with stock heads is going to get even close to those numbers.
I chose that cam because I knew it would make good power and have great drive-ability. For me, back in the day, to be over 425+ at the wheels, in a 346ci motor, stock bottom end, to idle like stock and drive flawlessly with no hiccups was a dream come true.
This car went 310rwhp stock, with just a lid.
When Dan re-dyno's with the offroad pipes and the cutout open he will be sitting at 420-425 without blinking an eye.
The best run the car ever made was 438 under ideal conditions.
I ran SEVERAL different combos/setups on the car back in the day before leaving it the final way.
I am pretty far removed from all this as it has been several years and a baby substituted for modding for awhile, but before advising someone to scrap their heads, they need to know what there goals are.
More cubes? Stroker motor? high compression? lower compression for a power adder?? Depends on what he wants to do.
If you pull it apart, have the heads flo-ed. See the numbers, then pick your new cam. It's pretty simple if he is only looking to the 440-450 range, keeping the cubes at 346 and the bottom end completely stock. If he is only looking for another 20hp no big deal. If he wants another 40-50 sure. major changes/ head work etc need to be done if he wants to hit 475+.
If the goals are total different, then you go from there. It's really not that confusing..
Dyno queens always made me laugh. All the modded LSX cars are so sweet.
Get out to the track and see what they can do. How good of a driver are you? (especially the M6 guys)What kind of trap speed are you running......
Great comment ODAWG-- How true.. without tracking it all means nothing. Any ls1 making serious power is useless unless you can hook it up and go!!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
As far as the tune goes:
The last time I had the car tuned, it ran a nice smooth 13.0 A/F ratio across the board.
I had an Autotap and used to log some data. I never saw more than 28 degrees of timing and never saw any knock at WOT.
I am not 100% if the first guy Dan took the car to made any computer modifications. I certainly am not a tuner but I even know that anything over 29 degrees doesn't usually make any more power over 26-28 degrees.
I am just glad it was cleaned up a bit and is running beautifully. That's great to see!
You guys should really know the facts before just making assumptions....
Please don't make a foolish statement that the numbers are in line of a cam only car. Please show me ONE ls1 with stock heads and a 228 cam with a weak .568 lift that made 425+ rwhp.
I have NEVER seen one.Everyone has seen the cam only cars that have made 390++ hp, but you are talking about VERY VERY aggressive cam specs. (and not the best drive-ability) No 228/.568lift cam with stock heads is going to get even close to those numbers.
I chose that cam because I knew it would make good power and have great drive-ability. For me, back in the day, to be over 425+ at the wheels, in a 346ci motor, stock bottom end, to idle like stock and drive flawlessly with no hiccups was a dream come true.
This car went 310rwhp stock, with just a lid.
When Dan re-dyno's with the offroad pipes and the cutout open he will be sitting at 420-425 without blinking an eye.
The best run the car ever made was 438 under ideal conditions.
I ran SEVERAL different combos/setups on the car back in the day before leaving it the final way.
I am pretty far removed from all this as it has been several years and a baby substituted for modding for awhile, but before advising someone to scrap their heads, they need to know what there goals are.
More cubes? Stroker motor? high compression? lower compression for a power adder?? Depends on what he wants to do.
If you pull it apart, have the heads flo-ed. See the numbers, then pick your new cam. It's pretty simple if he is only looking to the 440-450 range, keeping the cubes at 346 and the bottom end completely stock. If he is only looking for another 20hp no big deal. If he wants another 40-50 sure. major changes/ head work etc need to be done if he wants to hit 475+.
If the goals are total different, then you go from there. It's really not that confusing..
Dyno queens always made me laugh. All the modded LSX cars are so sweet.
Get out to the track and see what they can do. How good of a driver are you? (especially the M6 guys)What kind of trap speed are you running......
Great comment ODAWG-- How true.. without tracking it all means nothing. Any ls1 making serious power is useless unless you can hook it up and go!!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
As far as the tune goes:
The last time I had the car tuned, it ran a nice smooth 13.0 A/F ratio across the board.
I had an Autotap and used to log some data. I never saw more than 28 degrees of timing and never saw any knock at WOT.
I am not 100% if the first guy Dan took the car to made any computer modifications. I certainly am not a tuner but I even know that anything over 29 degrees doesn't usually make any more power over 26-28 degrees.
I am just glad it was cleaned up a bit and is running beautifully. That's great to see!
Last edited by CJ 01 WS6; 02-06-2010 at 08:24 PM.
02-06-2010, 09:27 PM
#50
Launching!
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Don't blame you if you want to back away from this thread CJ, but it seems like the biggest issue people are asking about is the heads and whether or not they are stock or AFR 205s or ported stock or whatever. Can you specifically address that?
Also- I had lofty goals of a Procharger recently and that is why I started looking more closely at what work had already been done. My funds unfortunately can't justify a Procharger (especially since I would definitely want to put a 9" in the rear at the same time). For now, I will put in the off-road pipes, open the cutout and do a full tune until my resources warrant more.
Thanks for all of the comments and taking the time to contribute to my gearhead re-education.
Also- I had lofty goals of a Procharger recently and that is why I started looking more closely at what work had already been done. My funds unfortunately can't justify a Procharger (especially since I would definitely want to put a 9" in the rear at the same time). For now, I will put in the off-road pipes, open the cutout and do a full tune until my resources warrant more.
Thanks for all of the comments and taking the time to contribute to my gearhead re-education.
02-06-2010, 09:47 PM
#51
Ok they may not be AFR heads like advertised, but they are not stock either. No stock 241 headed car with a cam that size will put down those numers. Throw the offroad setup on it and if you want more get a street sweeper cam 236/240, badass proven cam. Not sure if the car has a fast intake on it but that alone would gain you 10-20 rwhp. Certainly not a bad set of heads in my opinion.
Anyways that is "What I would do" and it should result in anywhere from 440-460 rwhp.
Anyways that is "What I would do" and it should result in anywhere from 440-460 rwhp.
02-06-2010, 10:19 PM
#52
Launching!
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Ok they may not be AFR heads like advertised, but they are not stock either. No stock 241 headed car with a cam that size will put down those numers. Throw the offroad setup on it and if you want more get a street sweeper cam 236/240, badass proven cam. Not sure if the car has a fast intake on it but that alone would gain you 10-20 rwhp. Certainly not a bad set of heads in my opinion.
Anyways that is "What I would do" and it should result in anywhere from 440-460 rwhp.
Anyways that is "What I would do" and it should result in anywhere from 440-460 rwhp.
02-07-2010, 01:14 AM
#53
AFASTYZR1 @ SOMbitch-
You guys should really know the facts before just making assumptions....
Please don't make a foolish statement that the numbers are in line of a cam only car. Please show me ONE ls1 with stock heads and a 228 cam with a weak .568 lift that made 425+ rwhp. I have NEVER seen one.
^^^Me neither he is making 390 about what a cam only 228 should make^^^ But when you sold it to him you told him it made 438. So which is it????Dig the hole a little deeper dude....
Everyone has seen the cam only cars that have made 390++ hp, but you are talking about VERY VERY aggressive cam specs. (and not the best drive-ability) No 228/.568lift cam with stock heads is going to get even close to those numbers.
Dude there are 224/224 guys making 400. Is that an agressive cam?? And again what happened to little 228 "be over 425+ at the wheels" that would "idle like stock and drive flawlessly" See bold below.
I chose that cam because I knew it would make good power and have great drive-ability. For me, back in the day, to be over 425+ at the wheels, in a 346ci motor, stock bottom end, to idle like stock and drive flawlessly with no hiccups was a dream come true.
This car went 310rwhp stock, with just a lid.
When Dan re-dyno's with the offroad pipes and the cutout open he will be sitting at 420-425 without blinking an eye.
The best run the car ever made was 438 under ideal conditions.
I ran SEVERAL different combos/setups on the car back in the day before leaving it the final way.
I am pretty far removed from all this as it has been several years and a baby substituted for modding for awhile, but before advising someone to scrap their heads, they need to know what there goals are.
More cubes? Stroker motor? high compression? lower compression for a power adder?? Depends on what he wants to do.
If you pull it apart, have the heads flo-ed. See the numbers, then pick your new cam. It's pretty simple if he is only looking to the 440-450 range, keeping the cubes at 346 and the bottom end completely stock. If he is only looking for another 20hp no big deal. If he wants another 40-50 sure. major changes/ head work etc need to be done if he wants to hit 475+.
If the goals are total different, then you go from there. It's really not that confusing..
Dyno queens always made me laugh. All the modded LSX cars are so sweet.
Get out to the track and see what they can do. How good of a driver are you? (especially the M6 guys)What kind of trap speed are you running......
Great comment ODAWG-- How true.. without tracking it all means nothing. Any ls1 making serious power is useless unless you can hook it up and go!!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
As far as the tune goes:
The last time I had the car tuned, it ran a nice smooth 13.0 A/F ratio across the board.
I had an Autotap and used to log some data. I never saw more than 28 degrees of timing and never saw any knock at WOT.
I am not 100% if the first guy Dan took the car to made any computer modifications. I certainly am not a tuner but I even know that anything over 29 degrees doesn't usually make any more power over 26-28 degrees.
I am just glad it was cleaned up a bit and is running beautifully. That's great to see!
You guys should really know the facts before just making assumptions....
Please don't make a foolish statement that the numbers are in line of a cam only car. Please show me ONE ls1 with stock heads and a 228 cam with a weak .568 lift that made 425+ rwhp.
I have NEVER seen one.^^^Me neither he is making 390 about what a cam only 228 should make^^^ But when you sold it to him you told him it made 438. So which is it????Dig the hole a little deeper dude....
Everyone has seen the cam only cars that have made 390++ hp, but you are talking about VERY VERY aggressive cam specs. (and not the best drive-ability) No 228/.568lift cam with stock heads is going to get even close to those numbers.
Dude there are 224/224 guys making 400. Is that an agressive cam?? And again what happened to little 228 "be over 425+ at the wheels" that would "idle like stock and drive flawlessly" See bold below.
I chose that cam because I knew it would make good power and have great drive-ability. For me, back in the day, to be over 425+ at the wheels, in a 346ci motor, stock bottom end, to idle like stock and drive flawlessly with no hiccups was a dream come true.
This car went 310rwhp stock, with just a lid.
When Dan re-dyno's with the offroad pipes and the cutout open he will be sitting at 420-425 without blinking an eye.
The best run the car ever made was 438 under ideal conditions.
I ran SEVERAL different combos/setups on the car back in the day before leaving it the final way.
I am pretty far removed from all this as it has been several years and a baby substituted for modding for awhile, but before advising someone to scrap their heads, they need to know what there goals are.
More cubes? Stroker motor? high compression? lower compression for a power adder?? Depends on what he wants to do.
If you pull it apart, have the heads flo-ed. See the numbers, then pick your new cam. It's pretty simple if he is only looking to the 440-450 range, keeping the cubes at 346 and the bottom end completely stock. If he is only looking for another 20hp no big deal. If he wants another 40-50 sure. major changes/ head work etc need to be done if he wants to hit 475+.
If the goals are total different, then you go from there. It's really not that confusing..
Dyno queens always made me laugh. All the modded LSX cars are so sweet.
Get out to the track and see what they can do. How good of a driver are you? (especially the M6 guys)What kind of trap speed are you running......
Great comment ODAWG-- How true.. without tracking it all means nothing. Any ls1 making serious power is useless unless you can hook it up and go!!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
As far as the tune goes:
The last time I had the car tuned, it ran a nice smooth 13.0 A/F ratio across the board.
I had an Autotap and used to log some data. I never saw more than 28 degrees of timing and never saw any knock at WOT.
I am not 100% if the first guy Dan took the car to made any computer modifications. I certainly am not a tuner but I even know that anything over 29 degrees doesn't usually make any more power over 26-28 degrees.
I am just glad it was cleaned up a bit and is running beautifully. That's great to see!
First you say it made 438 with your mild little 228 and then later it takes an agressive cam to make 390 WTF. Your car never made 438,425 or even 400.
Those 390 #s are right in line for a good running stock headed 228 cam car. If you want to get in a pissing match I'll go over to the dyno section and post some up it won't be hard.
I have (nor Frost apparently) seen a 228 cam make 438 on any OEM casting.
Where are the flow sheets and 438rwhp Dynograph? I would have been proud of that and for sure kept them
Did Tony Mamo port those heads? IDK but they are not 205's like in your ad. I could be wrong but maybe way back in the day he did fool around with OEM castings but not that I know of. I can find out easily enough
Oh.. and Tony doesn't Stage his heads either....he will massage them for customers but he doesn't sell Stage 1, 1.5 etc...If he picks up 25-30 from a cutout and ditching cats I will drive wherever you are and kiss your ***. At this power level the cats are costin him 5-7 max (if not clogged) and he MIGHT pick up 5 more with a cutout unless the CB is highly restrictive which I doubt. I know because I have seen many cars dynoed back to back with only these changes.
I am usually pretty mellow and try to get along with everyone but this stinks so bad I had to jump in and call BS. I don't know dan and it sounds like he got a nice car but the performance side was toatally misrepresented.
Last edited by SOMbitch; 02-07-2010 at 01:29 AM.
02-07-2010, 12:38 PM
#55
I have to say, I've already formed my own opinion based on the research I did (but have not previously posted links for). I don't have any interest for either party, but I think the threads & posts from the original owner speak for themselves...
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...o-results.html
WTF-Post Lock Because-- *DELETED*
The domain for Dyno Pro Auto is now for sale, so a direct link doesn't so anyone any good. You can search the domain using http://www.archive.org/ and find the business that PSJ referred to above, including dyno services and links to heads from Absolute Speed.
Dan - the only way to know what you have for sure is to pull the intake. Then, you should be able to see if the intake ports have been ported. At that point, you have to decide if pulling them and flowing them is worth the expense. If the heads flow as claimed, then you can probably make some good power with a modern cam profile and a good tune. If inflated dyno numbers and questionable heads are involved, you won't know without investing some time and effort.
Best of luck!
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...o-results.html
Originally Posted by CJ 01 WS6
Finished up the heads and cam package and had it retuned. I went with Absolute Speed Stage II heads and a TR224/224 thunder cam.
The car made 431 rwhp and 400rwtq sea corrected.
I could not be happier. Thanks to Jay @ Absolute Speed for working with me to get these heads done quickly and right to my specs.
At 550 the heads flowed 299 & at 600 they were 304!!
The car made 431 rwhp and 400rwtq sea corrected.
I could not be happier. Thanks to Jay @ Absolute Speed for working with me to get these heads done quickly and right to my specs.
At 550 the heads flowed 299 & at 600 they were 304!!
Originally Posted by CJ 01 WS6
Sorry to those who thought it was a "plug"
As people had asked, I was simply stating where the work was done, and what the numbers were. If anything I was praising the head work of Absolute Speed who IS a sponsor of this board.
As people had asked, I was simply stating where the work was done, and what the numbers were. If anything I was praising the head work of Absolute Speed who IS a sponsor of this board.
Originally Posted by Pro Stock John
What can I say, Dyno Pro/ HPA are not sponsors and CJ = CJ Pappas of Dyno Pro...
I finally got the cam in the night before last (which you probably saw in my post yesterday).
I had it tuned at Dyno Pro Performance in Wauconda, Illinois and all aI can saw is WOW...
I made a best of 398.2 RWHP and 378 RWTQ SAE corrected. That was with the cutout open.
I made a best of 392.5 and 377.8 Capped.
The graphs look beautiful and smooth. It pulls hard all the way to 6600
It's the TR224 cam on the 114 LSA..
A/F made the most power right at a constant 13 to 13.5
Brian at Dyno Pro did an amazing job...
Not bad on stock heads!!! We'll see what happens with a good set of stage II's this winter!!
I'll scan the graph later tonight and get it up.....
I'm a HAPPY man today..
By the way, my best pull prior to the cam and tuning was 347 rwhp and 355 tq..
I pulled approx 50 rwhp from the cam and tuning.
THANK YOU Thunder Racing and thank you VERY MUCH BRIAN at Dyno Pro Performance!!!!!!
I had it tuned at Dyno Pro Performance in Wauconda, Illinois and all aI can saw is WOW...
I made a best of 398.2 RWHP and 378 RWTQ SAE corrected. That was with the cutout open.
I made a best of 392.5 and 377.8 Capped.
The graphs look beautiful and smooth. It pulls hard all the way to 6600
It's the TR224 cam on the 114 LSA..
A/F made the most power right at a constant 13 to 13.5
Brian at Dyno Pro did an amazing job...
Not bad on stock heads!!! We'll see what happens with a good set of stage II's this winter!!
I'll scan the graph later tonight and get it up.....
I'm a HAPPY man today..
By the way, my best pull prior to the cam and tuning was 347 rwhp and 355 tq..
I pulled approx 50 rwhp from the cam and tuning.
THANK YOU Thunder Racing and thank you VERY MUCH BRIAN at Dyno Pro Performance!!!!!!
Best of luck!
02-07-2010, 12:55 PM
#56
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2001 WS6, 393rwhp/378tq: ported heads, 228/228 cam, LS6 intake, FLP 3" headers. Lots 'o suspension goodies. Not interested in NOS, S/C or Turbo. Wanna spend 2-3K on the untouched bottom end. Fun street car is the goal- not intended for the track.
What would you do (be specific please)?
What would you do (be specific please)?
Good Luck!
02-07-2010, 02:33 PM
#59
I'd say the car is cam-only currently. There is no reason a tuned, 6-speed H/C car should make less than 400 rwhp, especially if AFR 205s are involved. Even if it was a freakin GM Hot Cam with AFR 205s it would make over 400.
Last edited by PowerShift408; 02-07-2010 at 02:39 PM.
02-07-2010, 03:09 PM
#60
Launching!
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Thanks for the research Hammertime. Most of those posts are from 2003. CJ said he updated the cam not long after that to a Thunder Racing 228/228 with 568 lift. He also challenged me to pull the intake and/or the valve covers and take a look for myself what's inside. Whenever I get some free time I will post pix of the innards.