What would you do?
Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 203
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From: Chesterfield, VA
What would you do? 2001 WS6, 393rwhp/378tq: ported heads, 228/228 cam, LS6 intake, FLP 3" headers. Lots 'o suspension goodies. Not interested in NOS, S/C or Turbo. Wanna spend 2-3K on the untouched bottom end. Fun street car is the goal- not intended for the track.
What would you do (be specific please)?
What would you do (be specific please)?
Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 203
Likes: 0
From: Chesterfield, VA
M6. Where would you put the 2-3K then if you wanted 450-ish at the rear wheels? Intake? Injectors? Other?
Well being that your an M6 those dyno numbers could go WAY up with a better set of heads, and maybe a better matched cam. Not saying that the 228 is bad, cause it surely isn't.
I'm sure someone will say get a FAST setup, but IMO, I'd get a better heads/cam setup first.
I'm sure someone will say get a FAST setup, but IMO, I'd get a better heads/cam setup first.
Well being that your an M6 those dyno numbers could go WAY up with a better set of heads, and maybe a better matched cam. Not saying that the 228 is bad, cause it surely isn't.
I'm sure someone will say get a FAST setup, but IMO, I'd get a better heads/cam setup first.
I'm sure someone will say get a FAST setup, but IMO, I'd get a better heads/cam setup first.
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Launching!
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 203
Likes: 0
From: Chesterfield, VA
Didn't say injectors ALONE add power. Please keep the thread productive and not sarcastic. The heads/cam setup has already been ported and fine tuned by AFR. I have 2500 to spend. Back on topic...
Sticking to my guns...and don't take this the wrong way, but that's a weak heads/cam setup for an m6 car. If you want to hit your 450rwhp goal, it's time to swap to some better parts, not just add more to an already under performing combo.
Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 203
Likes: 0
From: Chesterfield, VA
I couldn't agree with you more. The numbers should be higher in my opinion, which is why I suspect an ancillary issue (head gasket, blow-by...whatever). I'm feeling like a compression/leak-down test is in order. If that comes back clean, then I think the better head/cam angle is the way to go. BUT- can I achieve that for $2500 incl labor or would I need to do it myself?
Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 203
Likes: 0
From: Chesterfield, VA
Here is the most recent reply from the previous owner if this helps at all.....
Hey Dan-
I got your email with the graphs-
As the original owner of the car I can give you a few extra details.
When the car put down 438 rwhp it was with the off road pipes on and the cut out wide open. (NO cats!)
The headers on the car are FLP,(finish line performance) not SLP. Swapping the offroads for the cats on the FLP headers takes 10 minutes. I know its taken me FOREVER but I will ship those bad boy off road pipes so you can get that car breathing like it should.
UNCAP the cutout/dump next time as well!!
I did some dyno testing back in the day with the off road pipes vs cats, and the cutout open vs closed.
On a heads and cam car, the cats held back approx 10-14 HP and the cut out closed held back another 10+.
On a stock, or very mildly modded ls1 car, off road pipes might only yield about 6-9 hp and the cut out another 5-8.
If you put the offroad pipes on and open the cutout/dump (let that beast breath a little more) you should see the 420's at the wheels no problem.
The other 15hp could be from a wide variety of variables.
Many dyno's are a little different and yield different numbers. temp, humidity, tire pressure just to name a few.
The correction factor plays a role as well. I would assume they used sae correction.
With the car breathing properly and hitting the 420+ mark at the wheels for a mild cam and stage 2 heads car is oretty sweet.
Lets see some 1/4 times and more importantly, some 1/4 mile trap speeds!!
enjoy bro..
talk soon--
Hey Dan-
I got your email with the graphs-
As the original owner of the car I can give you a few extra details.
When the car put down 438 rwhp it was with the off road pipes on and the cut out wide open. (NO cats!)
The headers on the car are FLP,(finish line performance) not SLP. Swapping the offroads for the cats on the FLP headers takes 10 minutes. I know its taken me FOREVER but I will ship those bad boy off road pipes so you can get that car breathing like it should.
UNCAP the cutout/dump next time as well!!
I did some dyno testing back in the day with the off road pipes vs cats, and the cutout open vs closed.
On a heads and cam car, the cats held back approx 10-14 HP and the cut out closed held back another 10+.
On a stock, or very mildly modded ls1 car, off road pipes might only yield about 6-9 hp and the cut out another 5-8.
If you put the offroad pipes on and open the cutout/dump (let that beast breath a little more) you should see the 420's at the wheels no problem.
The other 15hp could be from a wide variety of variables.
Many dyno's are a little different and yield different numbers. temp, humidity, tire pressure just to name a few.
The correction factor plays a role as well. I would assume they used sae correction.
With the car breathing properly and hitting the 420+ mark at the wheels for a mild cam and stage 2 heads car is oretty sweet.
Lets see some 1/4 times and more importantly, some 1/4 mile trap speeds!!
enjoy bro..
talk soon--
2001 WS6, 393rwhp/378tq: ported heads, 228/228 cam, LS6 intake, FLP 3" headers. Lots 'o suspension goodies. Not interested in NOS, S/C or Turbo. Wanna spend 2-3K on the untouched bottom end. Fun street car is the goal- not intended for the track.
What would you do (be specific please)?
What would you do (be specific please)?
i would probably spend the money on some top of the line heads like TFS 215 or AFR 205 and ditch the LS6 intake for a fast intake.
I couldn't agree with you more. The numbers should be higher in my opinion, which is why I suspect an ancillary issue (head gasket, blow-by...whatever). I'm feeling like a compression/leak-down test is in order. If that comes back clean, then I think the better head/cam angle is the way to go. BUT- can I achieve that for $2500 incl labor or would I need to do it myself?
Do your tests and see how the condition of the engine is and go from there. I would have to suggest AFR 205s for what your looking at achieving. I know there are other good choices out there, but I have the most experience with them over anything else. You can find them used in the mid-upper teens or if you bought some new they'd be around 2200-2300 bucks. Counting the money from selling your old stuff, and if you were to do it yourself, you could swing it and have some ~450rwhp/400+rwtq numbers still using a cam thats VERY streetable and keeping the LS6 intake.
With the right heads, a 228 cam can make some impressive power. If I were you, I would do the following:
- Shop for the Aftermarket head of your choice
- Degree your cam to make sure it is installed properly
- Mill the heads and use a .040" thick gasket to achieve 11:1 to 11.3:1 static compression
- Check the rocker sweep for proper geometry
- Measure and install the proper length pushrods for the new setup
- Get a good solid tune
If you address all the details, you should have little trouble reaching your goal.
FWIW - I'm a big fan of the AFR 205 heads as well, probably best bang for your buck in a "fun street car" manner of speaking.
- Shop for the Aftermarket head of your choice
- Degree your cam to make sure it is installed properly
- Mill the heads and use a .040" thick gasket to achieve 11:1 to 11.3:1 static compression
- Check the rocker sweep for proper geometry
- Measure and install the proper length pushrods for the new setup
- Get a good solid tune
If you address all the details, you should have little trouble reaching your goal.
FWIW - I'm a big fan of the AFR 205 heads as well, probably best bang for your buck in a "fun street car" manner of speaking.
Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 203
Likes: 0
From: Chesterfield, VA
I never think about labor since I do all my own work. If you could sell the heads and cam you have now, and get some decent cash, it could help with the new setup.
Do your tests and see how the condition of the engine is and go from there. I would have to suggest AFR 205s for what your looking at achieving. I know there are other good choices out there, but I have the most experience with them over anything else. You can find them used in the mid-upper teens or if you bought some new they'd be around 2200-2300 bucks. Counting the money from selling your old stuff, and if you were to do it yourself, you could swing it and have some ~450rwhp/400+rwtq numbers still using a cam thats VERY streetable and keeping the LS6 intake.
Do your tests and see how the condition of the engine is and go from there. I would have to suggest AFR 205s for what your looking at achieving. I know there are other good choices out there, but I have the most experience with them over anything else. You can find them used in the mid-upper teens or if you bought some new they'd be around 2200-2300 bucks. Counting the money from selling your old stuff, and if you were to do it yourself, you could swing it and have some ~450rwhp/400+rwtq numbers still using a cam thats VERY streetable and keeping the LS6 intake.
Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 203
Likes: 0
From: Chesterfield, VA
With the right heads, a 228 cam can make some impressive power. If I were you, I would do the following:
- Shop for the Aftermarket head of your choice
- Degree your cam to make sure it is installed properly
- Mill the heads and use a .040" thick gasket to achieve 11:1 to 11.3:1 static compression
- Check the rocker sweep for proper geometry
- Measure and install the proper length pushrods for the new setup
- Get a good solid tune
If you address all the details, you should have little trouble reaching your goal.
- Shop for the Aftermarket head of your choice
- Degree your cam to make sure it is installed properly
- Mill the heads and use a .040" thick gasket to achieve 11:1 to 11.3:1 static compression
- Check the rocker sweep for proper geometry
- Measure and install the proper length pushrods for the new setup
- Get a good solid tune
If you address all the details, you should have little trouble reaching your goal.