xe vs xe-r lobes, cammed guy come on in
02-24-2010, 11:46 AM
#1
xe vs xe-r lobes, cammed guy come on in Is it a better idea to run xe lobes on a daily driver? I am thinking you would give up 10rwhp and some more power under the curve depending, but you will gain life on the springs, ratainers and valve guides? Is that a fair assesment?
What is your expierence? How many miles do you have on your cam, with top end failure or not.
I know camming a car is not the best when it comes to being reliable but i am looking for a reliable dd setup that has a good jump in power.
What is your expierence? How many miles do you have on your cam, with top end failure or not.
I know camming a car is not the best when it comes to being reliable but i am looking for a reliable dd setup that has a good jump in power.
02-24-2010, 12:06 PM
#2
I have XE lobes on mine, so far I've broken 1 rocker arm. Everything else seems fine. So far power numbers have been somewhat disappointing but I'm getting a good dyno tune tomorrow so I can let you know what it does. I don't think I'm going to break 370rwhp though.
With the ls1 intake and stock stall it only did 325rwhp. Track times with the new intake estimate me at 350-360rwhp.
With the ls1 intake and stock stall it only did 325rwhp. Track times with the new intake estimate me at 350-360rwhp.
02-24-2010, 12:17 PM
#3
The XE lobe is pretty tame... honestly I don't think an xer is that hard on stuff, compared to the more agressive stuff that has come out ni the last couple years.
I'd go with an XER lobe, check your valvesprings after 10K, then probably 15K, to get a determination of the valvespring life, change them a few K eariler then you need to, and you should be fine.
I'd go with an XER lobe, check your valvesprings after 10K, then probably 15K, to get a determination of the valvespring life, change them a few K eariler then you need to, and you should be fine.
02-24-2010, 02:16 PM
#6
918's are o.k..... but I'd honestly put a dual on there, just for the piece of mind. Patriot extreme duty gold's, comp 921's would be my 2 choices. They're plenty to control the cam up to as far as I'd spin a stock shortblock, and the spring life should be decent. I'd still check the open/seat pressure at 10K, and see where it is compared to new, then again at 15K, and when you start to see a drop, change them, and make not of the mileage, then just plan to change them every X amount of miles
(example: say at 15K they start to show a dropoff, say they've lost 25% of their starting pressure, that would tell me that's the time to change them, and then just plan to do it every 15K This is a rough example, but it gives you the idea)
One thing people forget, is that springs, once you put any kind of agressive cam in regardless the lobe are now a maintenance item, and putting the bare min/cheapest spring on as it may make 1 hp more or whatever, isn't always the best idea.
(example: say at 15K they start to show a dropoff, say they've lost 25% of their starting pressure, that would tell me that's the time to change them, and then just plan to do it every 15K This is a rough example, but it gives you the idea)
One thing people forget, is that springs, once you put any kind of agressive cam in regardless the lobe are now a maintenance item, and putting the bare min/cheapest spring on as it may make 1 hp more or whatever, isn't always the best idea.
02-24-2010, 02:26 PM
#7
918's are o.k..... but I'd honestly put a dual on there, just for the piece of mind. Patriot extreme duty gold's, comp 921's would be my 2 choices. They're plenty to control the cam up to as far as I'd spin a stock shortblock, and the spring life should be decent. I'd still check the open/seat pressure at 10K, and see where it is compared to new, then again at 15K, and when you start to see a drop, change them, and make not of the mileage, then just plan to change them every X amount of miles
(example: say at 15K they start to show a dropoff, say they've lost 25% of their starting pressure, that would tell me that's the time to change them, and then just plan to do it every 15K This is a rough example, but it gives you the idea)
One thing people forget, is that springs, once you put any kind of agressive cam in regardless the lobe are now a maintenance item, and putting the bare min/cheapest spring on as it may make 1 hp more or whatever, isn't always the best idea.
(example: say at 15K they start to show a dropoff, say they've lost 25% of their starting pressure, that would tell me that's the time to change them, and then just plan to do it every 15K This is a rough example, but it gives you the idea)
One thing people forget, is that springs, once you put any kind of agressive cam in regardless the lobe are now a maintenance item, and putting the bare min/cheapest spring on as it may make 1 hp more or whatever, isn't always the best idea.
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02-24-2010, 05:02 PM
#8
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i've had zero issues with my set up. i'm running patriot gold dual springs and i'm too embarrassed to admit the mileage i currently have on them. i daily drove this car up until about 8 months ago along with a whole lot of street racing and a little track racing.
02-25-2010, 12:22 AM
#11
I think 918s or many singles are a no go on xer lobes. I have two friends that have broken 918s and not the old stuff. The first was on an ms3... why 918s were run on a grind that big i have no clue. It did not last long at all. The second was a cam around the size of a v2 and it lasted around 8-10k tops with lots of abuse... I say running duals may save a motor that breaks the outer spring. I went the xe route cuz its going in my daily driver truck with pac singles
02-25-2010, 04:37 AM
#12
I don't like a 918 spring aon anything more then about 580 lift, once you start pushing that spring more then that they get beat quick.
People do leave springs in for a long time (patriot golds for example) but I'd still be checking them on a regular basis, to determine spring life. That's really the only way to keep up with how long they're really good for.
People do leave springs in for a long time (patriot golds for example) but I'd still be checking them on a regular basis, to determine spring life. That's really the only way to keep up with how long they're really good for.
02-25-2010, 06:30 AM
#13
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a QUALITY single beehive can and will handle an aggressive lobe when setup PROPERLY. the more weight you pull out of the valvetrain means more stability assuming you have the proper pressure and setup. i have a hard time believing a inner spring is gonna save a valve at wot. just my .02
02-25-2010, 06:56 AM
#15
I have 22k on my PRC dual springs with a 231/232 .612/.588 sized cam. Will be changing them, along with the heads, before I get the car out again. Drive the car everywhere in the summer and have had no issues with anything.
I would look into the EPS lobes if I were you. Some impressive numbers being put down with those cams and you can use a single spring. PM PatrickG and have him custom grind you a cam. He did my cam and I am very happy. Wish the EPS lobes would have been out when I did my cam swap. Good luck.
I would look into the EPS lobes if I were you. Some impressive numbers being put down with those cams and you can use a single spring. PM PatrickG and have him custom grind you a cam. He did my cam and I am very happy. Wish the EPS lobes would have been out when I did my cam swap. Good luck.
02-25-2010, 07:26 AM
#16
a QUALITY single beehive can and will handle an aggressive lobe when setup PROPERLY. the more weight you pull out of the valvetrain means more stability assuming you have the proper pressure and setup. i have a hard time believing a inner spring is gonna save a valve at wot. just my .02
02-25-2010, 08:53 AM
#17
I will be running duals just for peace of mind, it will make me feel safer regardless.
Ya i made a thread about the EPS lobes because PatrickG was saying that they make the same power as the xe-r xfi lobes but they have much better acceleration and jerk. Which helps out the valve-train.
That is probably the ideal lobe out here right now for a daily driver/track car. I made this thread asking about how much stress i would save by going with a mild lobe like the xe lobe. So far it does not seem like much.
I have 22k on my PRC dual springs with a 231/232 .612/.588 sized cam. Will be changing them, along with the heads, before I get the car out again. Drive the car everywhere in the summer and have had no issues with anything.
I would look into the EPS lobes if I were you. Some impressive numbers being put down with those cams and you can use a single spring. PM PatrickG and have him custom grind you a cam. He did my cam and I am very happy. Wish the EPS lobes would have been out when I did my cam swap. Good luck.
I would look into the EPS lobes if I were you. Some impressive numbers being put down with those cams and you can use a single spring. PM PatrickG and have him custom grind you a cam. He did my cam and I am very happy. Wish the EPS lobes would have been out when I did my cam swap. Good luck.
That is probably the ideal lobe out here right now for a daily driver/track car. I made this thread asking about how much stress i would save by going with a mild lobe like the xe lobe. So far it does not seem like much.
02-25-2010, 05:58 PM
#18
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I went from a comp xe 220-224 112 with 0.534 int./0.537 exh. lift
to a comp xer 232 234 112 with 0.595 int./0.598 exh. lift
on the 220-224 I made 374hp 366tq
on the 232 234 I made 409hp 369tq and the tq pulled high alittle longer
(other additional mods were a 10% underdrive pulley and a ported throttle body)
Im running patriot gold duals, Only about 3k on them now but I hope they last
to a comp xer 232 234 112 with 0.595 int./0.598 exh. lift
on the 220-224 I made 374hp 366tq
on the 232 234 I made 409hp 369tq and the tq pulled high alittle longer
(other additional mods were a 10% underdrive pulley and a ported throttle body)
Im running patriot gold duals, Only about 3k on them now but I hope they last
02-25-2010, 06:17 PM
#19
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2000 SS Camaro with 1903XX miles
Balanced/ Blueprinted 346.
Comp Cams XER 224/ 224 - 114 .581 lift on in. and ex.
i have just reached 100k miles on this motor with out a failure or peep.
i am using Pioneer double valve springs good to .650 lift and REV s/s valves.
I just stay on top of general maintanence.
This car is driven every day of the week, of the month, of the year.
Balanced/ Blueprinted 346.
Comp Cams XER 224/ 224 - 114 .581 lift on in. and ex.
i have just reached 100k miles on this motor with out a failure or peep.
i am using Pioneer double valve springs good to .650 lift and REV s/s valves.
I just stay on top of general maintanence.
This car is driven every day of the week, of the month, of the year.
02-25-2010, 07:44 PM
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Call PAC and discuss this with them...I think when you talk with some real experts, a portion of this internet conventionl wisdom will be dispelled. Me personally,(for a street car) I would not run any more lobe than a single beehive would handle. The PAC 1518 will handle plenty of lobe for your purposes. Spring failures need to be looked at carefully; yes, I would say you'll see alot more single spring failures, but for a couple of reasons:#1-alot more have run the single beehives with the gen 3's and #2-I would bet there were many not running enough spring to begin with, ie: trying to use LS6 springs when more spring was actully needed...especially in earlier days before high quality, strong single beehives were available. The single beehive can control the valvetrain with less rated pressure over the nose and on the seat than a comparable dual spring- this is a fact and why GM used them in the first place...using higher spring pressures reduces reliability and increases warranty claims. I'm not saying here that GM would have ever used a dual spring, just that they could run less pressure with the beehive. Dual springs will generate more friction and heat. This isn't a bash on dual springs...when you run out of spring, its MUCH more reliable using a dual spring with correct amount of pressure than to use a single beehive that doesnt offer quite enough pressure. A well respected offshore engine builder, RAYLOR, has proven the beauty of the single beehive in some pretty hot motors that have heavy,antique valvetrains with horrendous duty cycles. He is claiming 900+ hrs before refreshing valvetrains where as the Merc HP(blue) motors need a refresh @ 250 hours both motors running similar Crane lobe profiles. PROPER CONTROL with less spring pressure = more reliability. Take Care,Dave