Not completely satisfied
04-13-2010, 02:13 AM
#1
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Not completely satisfied I just got done building my 2000 trans am. The build consisted of: TSP's Torquer2 cam (232/234/ 595/598), LS6 heads, LS6 Rockers, LS6 Oil Pump, LS2 Timing Chain, QTP Long Tube Heads, BBK 80mm Throttle Body, 410 gears, there is a laptop tune for the torquer cam in now, but hasnt been on the dyno yet ( I know its something i need to do), but for all the money i spent, and reviews i read about everyones experiences with the same mods as i have, everyone seems to be smiling except me. The only code Im showing is a mapsensor code, but I'm thinking it has something to do with the cam & generic tune, i know theres nothing wrong with the sensor itself, it worked fine before the car went to the shop. Could my lack of power have anything to do with still running stock fuel injectors and not being able to get my full potential out of my upgrades? How big of a improvement can they make? I was expecting to see atleast a 100whp increase with this build, & def do not feel i got it. Any advise would be greatly appreciated at this point. Thanks in advance
04-13-2010, 03:02 AM
#2
Well, I would find out what your duty cycle is on the injectors before I replaced them. They are probably around 108% duty cycle if I had to pick a number. Most likely after a good heads and cam setup you are gonna need some fueling upgrades. I would start with an intank pump and new fuel filter and see if that does much. Talk to your tuner before you go down the injector road though. Get it on the dyno and get back to us.
04-13-2010, 06:41 AM
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info on the heads? if they are stock 243's the 100hp goal might be hard to get. like Orangeapeel said above your fueling may need addressed as well and a GOOD tune will greatly help your cause
04-13-2010, 07:28 AM
#5
Is fuel really that big of a deal and can cause lack of power? I make 423/382, trap 118, and am on completely stock 99 fuel system.
OP...Full tune would be the best. My car just street tuned made 403/355. Almost 30 lbs torque difference just by throwing it on the dyno and making three runs. Adjusted my AFR, and added timing.
OP...Full tune would be the best. My car just street tuned made 403/355. Almost 30 lbs torque difference just by throwing it on the dyno and making three runs. Adjusted my AFR, and added timing.
04-13-2010, 10:23 AM
#6
The only way the fuel system is a problem is if he has a screwed injector, clogged filter or a dying pump or regulator. I have run 128+ on a stock '02 fuel system at 127% duty cycle. Not the best thing in the world but people blame the stock fuel system for problems way too much. I would check your MAP and see if you can switch it out for a known good one. Check the wiring too, when someone else works on your car you never know what could happen. I had all kinds of screwed up problems when I killed my MAP sensor. Good luck,
Larry
Larry
04-13-2010, 12:42 PM
#7
I have to agree with orangepeel, check/change your fuel filter, then check your fuel pump for sings of ability to keep up with fuel needs, specially at higher rpms and if the fuel pump checks out and you have already change fuel filter and your still at or over 100% of duty cycle then do your injectors.
You never want to go over 80% of duty cycle on your injectors. that doesn't mean go out and get the biggest injectors either, your stock computer can't read over 60lbs injectors anyways. match injectors to hp needs you will probably be very well off with 36-42 lbs injectors. Once the injectors hit 100% of duty cycle they loose the ability to control fuel flow and can throw the best tune out of whack.
You never want to go over 80% of duty cycle on your injectors. that doesn't mean go out and get the biggest injectors either, your stock computer can't read over 60lbs injectors anyways. match injectors to hp needs you will probably be very well off with 36-42 lbs injectors. Once the injectors hit 100% of duty cycle they loose the ability to control fuel flow and can throw the best tune out of whack.
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04-13-2010, 12:52 PM
#8
The map code is common with a large cam and higher than stock idle. If the map sensor is reading over a certain amount at 0% throttle position the code will set. This parameter needs to be raised to prevent the code from setting.
I would also like to know more info on the heads(milled, ported, what valves, etc...?). I'm inclined to say your missing power is due to the tune, but also agree that some fuel upgrades would be in your best interest. It is possible to run your setup on the stock fuel system but it will be maxed out and far from optimal.
I would also like to know more info on the heads(milled, ported, what valves, etc...?). I'm inclined to say your missing power is due to the tune, but also agree that some fuel upgrades would be in your best interest. It is possible to run your setup on the stock fuel system but it will be maxed out and far from optimal.
04-13-2010, 01:10 PM
#9
You need fuel man. I have a similar setup, only difference is I have stock 241 heads still. I'm running z06 28lb injectors and I'm still at 104% duty cycle. Don't listen to these ignorant pukes feeding you lines about "Im at 120% and its fine". The injector cannot keep up at that kind of level, and yes, absolutely it can cost you power. Plus you don't know what's going on with that car until you get it on a dyno. Get it there ASAP and get a tune, but injectors would be a step in the right direction first, to ensure you are ready to maximize the potential of the setup.
04-13-2010, 04:10 PM
#10
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I have just had the same job done on my SS, I hate the way it drives now. I asked for a dd cam and head package and now it jerks and bucks under 2000rpm(6m) but made 308rwkw(412rwhp). I'll never trust the so called experts again!
04-13-2010, 06:46 PM
#13
You can get that cold start crankiness tuned out too. Just gotta data log and make adjustments with the car completely cold by leaving it at the tuners overnight. I didn't get to do this with mine due to time constraints, and like you I can deal with letting it warm up, but he said it's completely fixable.
04-13-2010, 06:55 PM
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I have the torquer 2 and mine is very streetable. Other than the 4k stall it drives great on the street. It's all in the tune. Becarefull running over sized injectors on a stock tune. Get it to the dyno and he car should run fine.
04-13-2010, 09:18 PM
#15
You can get that cold start crankiness tuned out too. Just gotta data log and make adjustments with the car completely cold by leaving it at the tuners overnight. I didn't get to do this with mine due to time constraints, and like you I can deal with letting it warm up, but he said it's completely fixable.
To the OP.... I hope you get it all straightened out... You have had a time with this car. When they are right these car are great fun but they can also be VERY frustrating
04-13-2010, 09:24 PM
#16
Yeah I know you are right but the tuner is 80 miles away so leaving it there is a PIA..... I'll prolly have them do it when they retune for the bigger MAF, 100mm lid and get the FAST 90 ported.
To the OP.... I hope you get it all straightened out... You have had a time with this car. When they are right these car are great fun but they can also be VERY frustrating
To the OP.... I hope you get it all straightened out... You have had a time with this car. When they are right these car are great fun but they can also be VERY frustrating
04-13-2010, 09:29 PM
#17
Well I gained 80hp and 53 tq with LS6 intake, unported 243s and a custom 224 cam over my baseline. Its all about your gains not peak numbers that's why you need to baseline your setup. Now that I have a ported fast 85mm and underdrive I bet I'm 100hp / 65 tq over my baseline. I do all my own tuning too.
04-13-2010, 11:54 PM
#18
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The heads are stock 243 heads off a ls6 vet, was told it was worth doing, better flowing than the 241s & would work in combo with my torquer cam well. The generic tune im sure is some of my problem, im hoping to have him re tune this week and take a closer look at my specs in my car, but when he put the tune in, the car wasnt running correctly (whole other story) so he had it in there for when it was fixed i could drive it without problems. All i know is im very unplease for putting probably over $5,000 into it these past few months between parts and labor. Long story short, the first shop i took it too, messed ALOT of things up, & i was forced to double pay a reputiable shop to undo their mistakes. All I can say is the cars alot louder, and i feel i lost bottom end if anything (probably because the cam doesnt make power till after 3,000rpm.) Im by no means a professional, Im learning as i go, but i do know, i didnt get any type of big gain so far. Keeping in mind, all of the mods in my signature, were done all at once, i was planning to be in a "new car". Its frustrating. The car bucks (jerks back and fourth) in 6th gear low rpm, i thought of lack of fuel, but its prob the 410 gears), which i regret now, if i had to do over, 373s would have suited me better. I guess my options are the fuel injectors and a better tune. Reality wise tho, seems hard to believe, a tunes holding me back 70-80hp (guessing).
04-14-2010, 12:28 AM
#19
Those heads and cam should put in 400rwhp ballpark even with the restrictive LS1 IM so something is not right for sure. Your stock injectors are fine at that power level.The map sensor is not helping either. And really at anything over 2k you should have more bottom than the stock cam IMO. My 230/234 111+2 makes more everywhere... Are you sure the PR's are the right length? Too long and the valves will hang open and cost power... Too short and they won't open the valve all the way. Is the valvetrain quiet? A GOOD tuner should be able to diagnose your issues and straighten everything out for you.... Just take it easy on the car so nothing else ***** up until your tune is straight... A Good street tune is fine I just question the GOOD part in your case.....
Hey Longshot had to rent a U-haul and do that the one and only time my car left me walking. At the time I didn't know anybody with a code reader so did it to find out the stinking MAF was bad. The weird part was I suspected the maf and and unhooked it to run open loop and it still wouldn't go 5 feet before knocking off.....
Hey Longshot had to rent a U-haul and do that the one and only time my car left me walking. At the time I didn't know anybody with a code reader so did it to find out the stinking MAF was bad. The weird part was I suspected the maf and and unhooked it to run open loop and it still wouldn't go 5 feet before knocking off.....
04-14-2010, 01:38 PM
#20
The heads are stock 243 heads off a ls6 vet, was told it was worth doing, better flowing than the 241s & would work in combo with my torquer cam well. The generic tune im sure is some of my problem, im hoping to have him re tune this week and take a closer look at my specs in my car, but when he put the tune in, the car wasnt running correctly (whole other story) so he had it in there for when it was fixed i could drive it without problems. All i know is im very unplease for putting probably over $5,000 into it these past few months between parts and labor. Long story short, the first shop i took it too, messed ALOT of things up, & i was forced to double pay a reputiable shop to undo their mistakes. All I can say is the cars alot louder, and i feel i lost bottom end if anything (probably because the cam doesnt make power till after 3,000rpm.) Im by no means a professional, Im learning as i go, but i do know, i didnt get any type of big gain so far. Keeping in mind, all of the mods in my signature, were done all at once, i was planning to be in a "new car". Its frustrating. The car bucks (jerks back and fourth) in 6th gear low rpm, i thought of lack of fuel, but its prob the 410 gears), which i regret now, if i had to do over, 373s would have suited me better. I guess my options are the fuel injectors and a better tune. Reality wise tho, seems hard to believe, a tunes holding me back 70-80hp (guessing).